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It looks near the end for aguda utj looks to get 7 seats along with shas getting 7 and with aguda only getting 1 seat within the top 7 slots, for goldknopf/ger, it seems that aguda will end up a 1 seat aguda, and if thats the case, how long until degel and homat get together and force agudas place for ger/goldknopf out of the top 7 slots and into slot 8 or lower, and then we get a no seat aguda!
Perhaps you could add “…party in the Israeli parliament” to the title so that it is clear to which Agudah you refer.
good riddance. they lost their mandate long ago.
I echo Hakatan,
I was thinking you were talking about Agudath Israel of America
Agudah in America is going strong, though the possibility that a future American government will “green light” pogroms shouldn’t be totally ignored, in which case Agudah in America is irrelevant (unless Agudah adapts, e.g., organizing frum gun clubs, organizing relocation out of “blue” (woke/socialist) states to conservative areas.
In Israel all the Hareidi “establishment” parties are endangered since for the last century they have based their existence of reaching an accommodation with the Zionists, and it now seems the only thing the Zionists can agree is a desire to crush the Hareidim and close down the yeshivos. The remnants of the pre-Zionist Hareidi (back then they were just called the frum Jews) establishment of Eretz Yisrael (then a part of the Ottoman Empire, so long ago there weren’t even any Palestinian Arabs yet) could end up absorbing the formerly pro-Zionist Hareidim who will need to start rebuilding an anti-Zionist Hareidim community that is self-sufficient and able to survive regardless of which Zionist faction ends up in control, and regardless of who wins their war with the Muslims.
This may be the first valid point Hakatan has made in the history of the YW Coffee room.
akperma> it now seems the only thing the Zionists can agree is a desire to crush the Hareidim and close down the yeshivos
you are entitled to your own opinions, but not to your own facts. First increasing and then reducing subsidies and asking to serve like other citizens – definitely creates a problem, but it is not crushing or closing down. And if it is not true, where do you find a heter to write these things?!
R Schach warned charedi politicians in 1978 not to accept full government support, as they will get a problem when the government changes. And whose fault is it? 70% of Israeli Jews believe in Hashem, 20+% do not fast on yom kippur, not counting medical reasons. So, if after so many decades of government subsidies, you were not able to convince mostly religious Jews in Israel of value of your learning to the country, maybe your attitude towards those Israelis or quality of your learning is the problem.
akuperma> who will need to start rebuilding an anti-Zionist Hareidim community that is self-sufficient and able to survive regardless of which Zionist faction ends up in control,
this is a great positive program, but it does not have to be “anti zionist”. If charedi community supports their learning from willing contributors, it will be great step towards shalom to other Yidden who just don’t feel like paying you. The other part is defense – maybe pay a Syrian Druze force to serve instead of you? or move to areas under arab control and pay them jizya or protection like in good old times.
Akuperma, I wouldn’t assume that Jews would be safe in conservative areas, there is a lot of antisemitism coming from that side now too. And I certainly wouldn’t assume that anti-zionist Chareidim will be safe if the zionists lose the war with the Muslims, in fact I think it’s safe to assume the exact opposite, because the nuances of zionist vs anti-zionist and even religious vs secular don’t mean anything to those who hate us.
The Agudah in America can not exist conceptually without a clear Daas Torah from EY. What is their view of Israeli government ? People are entitled to know what is right for acehynu bnai yisrael. In previous years Agudah said its an Israel issue, not for us to worry about. That has changed. All our newspapers are full of theb gezerah, but the guidance is missing unfortunately.
Aseh> wouldn’t assume that anti-zionist Chareidim will be safe if the zionists lose the war with the Muslims
indeed. In 1930s there was an attempt to have a fast for german jews. some senior rabbis responded that it is impossible to fast for people who will not fast themselves. There was similar neglect of ussr Jews. Some, like Chofetz Chaim, called for davening and sending packages directly during hunger, but I don’t this was a mass movement. When Soviet Jews started showing up in 1970s, they had to thank mass movement by young college students and yehidim, like L Rebbe and R Teitz who were against public action, but provided quiet help.
Could you ask around – how did your community was helping German Jews in 1930s and Soviet Jews from 1920s to 1980s?
AAQ, I did not mean to start a discussion about who deserves more credit or more blame for past efforts to help Jews in need. If the point is that Jews should care about other Jews, including those who have hashkafos we disagree with, then such a discussion is going to have the opposite effect.
Aseh, I am not making a point about roles of different groups, this can go down pretty quickly indeed.
I am just saying that we don’t always fully understand what was done by our ancestors. I just came up with a beautiful poster from a wonderful foundation that splashes a whole page with: Chofetz Chaim on ww1: … everyone should answer ihe shmei raba … I went to refresh my memory and his public letter at that time talks about helping accommodate war refugees, charge them lower rent, or at least not to gauge them. Some communities are hosting them in a shul for months. It is inappropriate as they have no privacy, kitchen, places for old and sick to rest. ….and he ends with that also communities stopped using those shuls, and it is important to restore minyanim and answer kaddish…
Why are we censoring Chofetz Chaim?
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