- This topic has 38 replies, 22 voices, and was last updated 10 years, 11 months ago by .
-
Posts
-
The matzav in Eretz Yisrael is getting really bad!! Please daven that the harsh gezeiros be nullified. I am talking about the drafting of yeshiva bochurim into the army & the safety of the people in ertz yisrael! Almost everyday there are attempted terroist attacks! Please say a kapital tehilim for the nullification of this gezira!! Akeep the yidden in ertz yisrael and matzav in mind when davening!!!
Continue serving hashem and having emunah.
Moshiach now!
I’m davening that chareidim in EY stop lighting garbage cans on fire, stop throwing rocks at people, stop stealing money from the government, and stop calling secular Jews names like “Nazi”.
They brought this on themselves.
You should study history, both our’s and the goyim’s. Then you’ll stop freaking out about conditions today.
Next time the “chareidim” should not bash the government and the Army and the police. These entities allow you to live in freedom and without fear and you fight/protest them in the street. The “chareidim” now need to make their contribution. Yes you can be frum and serve.
I’m trying to figure out which stream of Yiddishkeit you come from.
MATZAV IN ERETZ YISRAEL IS GETTING REALLY BAD: Yeshivish
ALMOST EVERYDAY THERE ARE ATTEMPTED TERROIST ATTACKS!: Zionist
PLEASE SAY A KAPITAL TEHILIM: Chasidish
MOSHIACH NOW!: Chabad
So, which is it?
“END THIS CONVERSATION RIGHT NOW”
Agreed. Mods?
I am davening that the Chareidi politicians come to their senses and adopt an approach that doesn’t force anyone learning in Kollel to join the army, but will give the option of allowing people to work and study limudei chol without having to join the army either.
I am also davening that the people will understand that the concept of Kollel For Life is not kodesh kodoshim and it’s OK to work and study.
I have been davening for this for over a decade, hopefully soon Hashem will bring change.
WHY ARE YOU YELLING?
Peerimsmeach- Why are you screaming?
Stop shouting.
By policy, I refuse to read anything that is in ALL CAPS.
No matter how important or true your statement is, it does not become any more important or true by using ALL CAPS. All it does is make it harder for the reader to read.
The Wolf
Peerimsameach:+1
why is everyone mad at this guy (assumed) for asking the oilam to try and help out their fellow jews who need it? you may have taaynos on certain things a small minority does and they may be justified, but thats no excuse turn your backs on jews in dire circumstances. we all have our differences, and we all need to sort them out but in the meantime, we can do this much.
I don’t know, there’s a faint whiff of sarcasm…
I am davening that all the non-learners go into the army and help in the defense of the country.
Avi K: I think you need to be more careful in how you word your prayers. Everyone who is not learning = non-Jews as well. And you don’t know which army they will join.
I would daven, instead, that Hashem should protect Eretz Yisrael. ?? ?’ ?? ???? ??? ??? ??? ????
Torag613Torah, don’t be disingenuous. Given the context of trhis thread I think my intention is clear – and Hashem certainly knows it. On the other hand, according to Rambam non-Jews in EY must do national service so maybe I should include them.
Believing that the physical safety of EY depends on keeping Haredim out of the army is logically the same attitude that I can not work and still be rich, or that I can eat whatever I want and not exercise and still be thin. Hishtadlus means that G-d helps those who help themselves, and R’ MM Kasher, zt”l, says that this is a big yesod underlying Religious Zionism.
Thanks peerim.
Believing that the physical safety of EY depends on keeping Haredim out of the army is logically the same attitude that I can not work and still be rich
Believing that the physical safety of the people in EY has nothing to do with how much learning is going on is kefirah in divrei Chaza”l.
DY: There is a difference between saying that the safety of the people has nothing to do with it and saying that everyone will be safe if everyone just sits and learns and there is no army. There is also a difference between saying that the safety of the people has nothing to do with learning and between saying that more people working on more physical defense will create a safer country. There is a middle ground, and I think what Rebdoniel expressed is a legitimate opinion.
I think what Rebdoniel expressed is a legitimate opinion.
He didn’t address having no army, which I haven’t seen an argument for. He addressed keeping a specific group out.
I haven’t seen the argument that given current political circumstances, we don’t need an army. If the entire country were frum, and everyone was a masmid (and moshiach still hadn’t come, and the Arabs still had the desire for “v’lo yizacher shem Yisrael od”, of course some people who would otherwise be learning would need to be in the army.
But that’s far from the reality. There’s an army which presents a very reasonable hishtadlus, but there’s never such a thing as “enough” learning; not for the actual mitzvah, and not for the “magne umatzleh” which it brings about.
haifagirl:
Screaming at someone for using ‘caps’ is Capital Punishment.
Oh Snap!
” according to Rambam non-Jews in EY must do national service so maybe I should include them”
According to Rambam, anyone learning full time without a parnassah creates a chilul HaShem and loses their part in Olam Ha-Ba!
I must be a glutton for punishment because nothing that is said here will make an iota of difference but , “l’maan haemes” I have to put in my two cents, in response to DaasYochid and others.
It is irrelevant how many people are available for the army or how many people are or are not learning. IF the situation today in israel is one of danger, then everyone has a CHIYUV to go to the army. As simple as that. Look up the mishne end of soitah and the rambam. It is uequivocal that the duty of defending the Jewish yishuv falls on every one!
According to Rambam, anyone learning full time without a parnassah creates a chilul HaShem and loses their part in Olam Ha-Ba!
That’s odd, because for a while the Ramba”m did just that, and was supported by his brother. I think maybe you are misunderstanding the Ramba”m.
R’ Moshe writes that it’s possible that the Ramba”m never held anything of the sort, but even if he did say something related to your misquote, the halachah does not follow him.
Rabbiofberlin
You want Eretz Yisrael to be likeancient Sparta? Which normal country has a draft today? This whole draft policy is backwards.
IF the situation today in israel is one of danger, then everyone has a CHIYUV to go to the army.
There you go again, thinking you know more than the gedolei haposkim. Did the Chazon Ish, The Minchas Yitzchak, R’ Shlomo Zalman Auerbach, R’ Elyashiv, etc. send all able bodied yeshiva bochurim to the army? Do you think maybe they knew halachah maybe a tad better than you?
DY: The Rambam said it. Many Achronim go out of their way to prove we don’t hold like him. But he very clearly said it. Also, if you read his letters, you see that he explains that he didn’t do that.
And the Mishnah B’rurah is clearly accepted on many things, mostly due to being the most convenient resource. There are many places with many Minhagim otherwise. My father told me he has seen with his own eyes where Shuls and communities have changed their Minhagim because the Rav didn’t know their Minhag so just went with the Mishnah B’rurah when anyone in the community would have told you that the Minhag is otherwise (e.g. who Davens for the Amud when there’s a Yahrtzeit and a Shloshim in the Shul). I won’t say that you’re doing wrong if you’re going with the M”B, Chas V’shalom. But I think it is quite a stretch to say that all of K’lal Yisrael has accepted all of the Mishnah B’rurah. If that were true, no one would ever learn any other Halachah Seforim anymore. Also, the vast majority of people don’t know how to properly read the Mishnah B’rurah or what to do when they find a Stirah.
I am aware that it’s the pashtus, and of course we don’t pasken that way, but you can’t deny that R’ Moshe considered it a possibility, although I don’t understand it either.
It’s fair to say that paskening like the M”B is not an absolute (although the Chazon Ish makes it sound as if it is).
I do not think, though, that you’re correct that the reason the M”B is so widely accepted is merely convenience. It has to do with the author.
DY: I disagree. Before the war, when the average Baal Habayis was much more learned (well, he was in the pre-war years until recently), the Aruch Hashulchan was much more popular as a Halachah Sefer because it spoke to the average Baal Habayis much more. In post-war years, they went with the M”B which is overall simpler.
the average Baal Habayis was much more learned
I don’t know that that’s the case.
Sam2, derech klal, ba’ale batim knew less. There were tons of Amoratzim who never went to Yeshiva– pressures of earning parnossa, lack of chashivus Ha’Torah etc.
Peerisimchah — it is a disaster to make a chillul HaShem!
“‘According to Rambam, anyone learning full time without a parnassah creates a chilul HaShem and loses their part in Olam Ha-Ba!’
“That’s odd, because for a while the Ramba”m did just that, and was supported by his brother. I think maybe you are misunderstanding the Ramba”m.”
Yes, his parnassah was from his brother. It was a reciprocal arrangement (my bio studying must be getting into my head at last, because the word I was thinking of was “symbiotic”). THEY BOTH AGREED to it.
In this case, one can argue that the Israeli government agreed to such a Yissachar-Zevulun relationship up until now- but NOW THEY DON’T.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.