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Is it allowed according to halachah to be a counter-missionary, since u have to have knowledge of the NT, I know Rabbi Tovia Singer is but still is it technically allowed according to halachah?
I’ve heard that all the counter-missionaries got a heter based on them being descended from goyim.
No one should engage in conversation as a counter-missionary, unless that person is a) steeped in knowledge of TANACH, b) knows what missionaries are quoting as the basis for their propaganda and c) are sufficiently articulate to make a correct impression and not sound like yokels, when they debate the issue. Guaranteed, the other side has done its homework. They have answers for everything. This is not to be undertaken lightly. Best not to engage, IMO. They have much more practice at it.
You don’t need to know NT. You just need to know Tanach. And a lot of Gemara helps too. And the Rambam.
But don’t do it, it’s not fun.
Try asking your LOR. (Local Orthodox Rabbi.)
Counter-missionaries protect unsuspecting Jews. Other than a few basics in the goyish testament, you need to know TANACH and how missionaries distort and take things out of context.
Missionaries mostly use the TANACH in their perverse way, since most Jews, even ignorant ones, would just ignore them if they preached their bible.
Every Jew should know the basics of Counter-missionary information.
From a psychological standpoint, people’s desire for something gets stronger when someone is trying to take it away. The knowledge would probably help those in danger of going off the derech.
I don’t know if he’s a cohen or not, but I don’t see how that affects whether he’s descended from goyim.
I think most Missionaries quote Isaiah and very few frum jews learn Isaiah
GolemGorilla: Right and all the more reason for Jews to understand this stuff and know how to counteract it. Knowing their tactics is very important too.
GolemGorilla: Definitely so. Counter-missionaries have saved many Jewish souls.
It’s interesting debating these people. Some are very well trained, but if you know how to debate, they are easy to defeat. Most of them have superficial knowledge.
GolemGorilla: I’ve seen a few of his debates a long time ago.
I don’t know enough about R’ Singer to make a proper comment. If he is very bawkie in both Tanach and effective counter-missionary responses, then I applaud his efforts to undo the missionary influences on our children.
GolemGorilla: From what I remember he is very good There are many others as well, such as Rabbi Michael Skobac from Jews for Judaism.
From what I know, one doesn’t have to be such a baki in Tanach, just an extra measure of common sense. And knowing Mefarshim, Rishonim etc.won’t help a bit, they’re at a different “angle”, they’re not exactly “gores” the Rambam, Rishonim, Chazal etc.
You have to know the best way to size up your fellow and “explain” it to him / her, that carefully or randomly skewed “verses” don’t in and way shape or form refer to that individual. Any normal, sensible, unbiased court of law would trash out all “proofs”…
And then discuss the nature of his birth… (actually those “verses” have now been discontinued.. even they realize how utterly foolish it is..)
You originally asked if it’s against halacha.
Why don’t you ask your rabbi?
(I’m sure the psak would be entirely different for different people, depending on their expertise in Tanach etc.)
Regarding debates, in my opinion it’s best to steer clear of them altogether. It’s easy for anyone to skew a debate in the direction they want it and often it’s the more charismatic person who “wins” – not the one with more knowledge.
There are a lot of other important ways to do anti-missionary work.
They give good soundbites, and for every one that they serve, you’ve got to swat it back at them. If you miss just one, then all those observing the debate will be influenced by them. Seems awful risky. Might be better to talk to Jews on your own turf, not by playing the missionaries’ game.
From what I know, one doesn’t have to be such a baki in Tanach, just an extra measure of common sense. And knowing Mefarshim, Rishonim etc.won’t help a bit, they’re at a different “angle”, they’re not exactly “gores” the Rambam, Rishonim, Chazal etc.”
You DO need to be very well-versed in Tanach, because THEY will quote chapter and verse by heart on Yeshayahu and Zechariah. You had better be prepared to answer correctly, or do NOT engage in conversation.
I was once approached by a J4J in college who was wearing a kippah and holding (what I thought was) a Chumash. When I opened it up, I immediately saw it was both a Chumash AND NT written in Hebrew with Sheimos in it. The person asked me if I wanted to know the “truth.” I said thank you very much I already know The Truth, and mine came before his and straight from the Source. To prevent further discussion, I turned and left.
Unless you are really knowledgeable, you cannot “win” a debate with these guys. They study evangelism yomam valayla and are fsr better prepared than most frum people. They have an answer for everything…
Again, Oomis, knowing Tanach, as you said has nothing to do with wining these characters. As YOU said, they come readily prepared with their misconstrued, contorted “meanings”, so it should really only take a sensible mind to discern their bluffs.
I know quite well how they act, the modus operandi (is that a word?), I know they’re quite adept at their work, but I still think a sensible approach is the best. (if you wanna have some fun, that is).
It’s many years later than the Ramban, who after a debate was forced to leave, today we have the invention of free speech – why not use it to it’s fullest. ?? ??????? ????? ??? ???????? ?????? ?????? ?????, here’s my chance at at, why not?!?
I’ve never really delved into their stuff (have a genius of a brother who did), I’ve heard that there’s a hazy, fuzzy couple of maybe hundreds of years that are not accounted by them, overlap or overflop.
Just read the debate of the Ramban. I don’t think they got any new material since then.
“Just read the debate of the Ramban. I don’t think they got any new material since then.”
There weren’t any fundamentalist protestants in the Ramban’s days. You actually have to speak to them differently than to catholics. One reason is that their attitudes — all of which are sheker ve’kazav anyway — toward the Tanach (“the Bible”) are not the same. One of the first questions I ask in a debate of this sort is what denomination they belong to. Rabbi Singer is superb. If you are for guidance in this field, he is definitely worth listening to.
I have listened to R’ Singer since we began this thread. He is excellent. Most of us are not, however. Leave it mostly to the pros, but still Da mah l’hashiv.
I hate it when the guy behind the deli counter (or any counter really) starts missionizing to me. Dont do it, just slice the pastrami and wrap it up. Leave the speeches for another time.
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