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As was written on another post, and it’s becoming a more common theme, there are many girls who say that there are better girls out there than boys. A girl once mentioned this to me on a date, and it really bothered me that she felt this way. I don’t think this is true at all, and I’m not even sure what this means. Does anyone agree with this and can someone please explain to me what this means?
Think about what a girl needs to do to be a better girl, and what a boy needs to do. The answer is obvious.
Girls just don’t have the Yetzer or the Mitzvos that Boys have.
No, it’s a total bubbe maaise. And it’s not a new bubbe maaise either. I’ve heard it already almost 20 years ago.
It’s easier to be a good girl than to be a good boy. A good girl, for example, doesn’t have to shteig almost every free minute of her day over a Gemorah, in high school and on.
She is right. Here’s why:
By the time she is dating, she has more than likely begun working, and is most likely well on her way to a promising carrear, which will provide a decent income. He has most likely not done any of the above.
She / her parents need to beg and plead with a shadchan to get noticed. He just needs to have a pulse and not drool when eating.
She will juggle the responsiblilty of working AND running the house / kids. He will expect a thank you if he puts his clothes in the hamper.
Shall I keep going?
bpt
Why the negativity?
Girls of marriageable age are generally more responsible, mature, and settled than boys of marriageable age.
girls and women of ALL ages are generally more responsible and mature than boys and men, generally
Agreed, 80. The OP just seemed to be referring to marriageable aged girls and boys, so I wrote that. But I agree with you. So, if your definition of ‘better’ is more responsible and mature, then girls are better than boys.
“Why the negativity?”
Because all around, I see quality, accomplished girls in the shidduch parsha, whereas the boys in the shidduch arena have zero ambition or vision of how they plan on supporting their family.
That’s why. And the saddest part is, we as a society, tolerate this imbalance.
bpt
So if someone has a degree or a job they are “better” than someone who doesnt? I know many fine people who are sadly unemployed. I dont measure the quality of a girl by her degree or job. I measure someone by what they are all about and if they care about others.
“the boys in the shidduch arena have zero ambition or vision of how they plan on supporting their family.”
Lets not generalize. There are plenty of boys who went to school and got some kind of degree. Additionally there are plenty of guys who want to learn the first few years. Whats wrong with deciding to go to school after learning a few years?
WIY; Thanks for saving me the trouble.
There’s a famous question as to why do Chazal say Gadol Hametzuveh V’oseh Mi’mi Sheino Metzuvah V’oseh! It would seems kind of contrary to logic.
There are many answers, one of which Tosafos brings that one who is not commanded, doesn’t have a strong Yetzer Horah on that thing.
That is why it is not such a big deal to do something your weren’t commanded as opposed to someone who was commanded, do this, or don’t do that.
It is interesting to note that a big problem today with Ehrliche girls on the market who cannot or do not want to support, is that although they want a working guy, most of the working guys they
date don’t meet up to their Hashkafa and Ruchnius’dige needs.
These girls complain about this, or sometimes R”L settle for a guy that is less frum than themselves.
All you Big Lamdanim here who are bashing good guys,
(probably so proud of yourselves that you work and still go to a shiur sometimes)
why is it can you tell me that most working boys aren’t so shtark in their haskafah, learning seders (if any) or what they like to do or places they frequent in their free time.
Why is it that those serious B’nei Torah in yeshiva are still shtark, (maybe not in your eyes, for in your eyes shtark is measured in dollar $IGN$)
as opposed to most of the working boys?
What makes a girl good? That she has a job & doesn’t hang out?!!
Whew! That’s tough these days. Nobody likes money. Especially girls, who absolutely abhor shopping, looking nice, dressing up.
Most girls DO NOT get to go to a good school like Bais Yaakov and get a good education about being aidel & Tzanua like all the other girls did hundreds of years ago.
It’s not like they get out of school earlier than boys and are bored and need to get a job. It isn’t even like a style or like there’s any peer pressure to get an education or go to work.
We all know that most girls don’t get a job or education these days. All they do is sit home and bake cookies, and have meetings with other girls discussing recipes and how much better they are than boys today.
Although this is a serious post, there is much sarcasm in it, if you missed it, it may be confusing for you, I apologize.
Think about what a girl needs to do to be a better girl, and what a boy needs to do. The answer is obvious.
Girls just don’t have the Yetzer or the Mitzvos that Boys have.
gavra thats quite true. If you look at the list of people a child is told to approach if lost you’ll see they are all women- a mother with kids… a woman with a man…. a woman alone.. a man is a last resort- for areason obviously.
She is wrong. Here’s why:
By the time he is dating, he is more than likely in yeshiva, engrossing himself in Torah, the purpose of life, which will provide a strong foundation for his family. She has most likely not done any of the above.
She / her parents need to beg and plead with a shadchan to get noticed. He just needs to have a pulse and not drool when eating, nothing of which has anything to do with girls or boys being better than each other.
He will juggle the responsiblilty of learning AND helping around the house / entertaining the kids. She will expect a thank you if she lets him go to night seder.
Normal men are more than likely secure in themselves. Normal women (I’ll assume for the sake of discussion that BPT is normal), well…
Shall I keep going?
I don’t believe that is what she meant. In my circles what that means is there are so many wonderful girls being overlooked because “boys” and their parents are looking for the wrong “qualities” in girls. They are not looking for their middos, kindness, generosity, compassion, love of yiddishkeit, chessed, etc. They are looking for money and Yichus and if the girl doesn’t come from a family that can supply that, she is not considered for a shidduch. Therefore many parents of boys claim “there are no good girls out there” because the pool for what they want, whether they deserve it or not, is dwindling.
There are many, many great girls with great qualities out there, whether they are willing to kill themselves to support a learning guy or they want their husbands to be mepharnes the family as he is supposed to according to the Kesubah. But they might not have the 2 qualities plus the ability to maintain an anorexic body frame.
It depends on what you mean by better. Girls have much more responsibility thrust on them at a young age than boys typically ever will in a yeshivish household (actually in most households).
The boys spend many years learning, while the girls go to Yeshivah AND get educated for a job that will bring in parnassah to support their husbands while they continue to sit and learn. I would like to remind you that Zevulun is EVERY bit as choshuv and s’char-worthy as Yissachar. The only difference is that zevulun, unlike young women today, was not expected to also be pregnant and raise the family while earning that parnassah to facilitate Yissachar’s learning. In that way, yeah, I think girls might be a little better.
there are so many wonderful girls being overlooked because “boys” and their parents are looking for the wrong “qualities” in girls.
As are the girls looking for a trophy husband. The only difference is that a trophy wife means being rich and pretty, while a trophy husband means being a top guy in yeshiva.
So, the girls get to disguise their pettiness in fake avodas Hashem and complain about the boys. While in truth, the girls just want to impress their friends and be part of the “kollel club”.
We just recently had a thread here where a girl was complaining that she could not find a guy in learning, even while admitting that it might be her avodas Hashem to marry a working guy. So what’s her issue? Friends.
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/totally-messed-up#post-293461
Consider the way a boys “market value” drops when he leaves yeshiva, even compared to boys who are still in yeshiva but planning to leave at the same time as him. (Imagine a 25 year old who learned 7 years versus a 23 year old planning to learn another 2 years.) If the girls want a ben torah, they should be the same. No, the girls want the kollel club.
So we’re all hunting for trophies to hang on our wall. Girls, don’t delude yourselves.
PBA, after they have been deprogrammed about 2 years out of seminary, girls are NOT so makpid anymore. So if a guy is 2 to 3 years older than her and does not want to make learning a career, that boy has a better shot these days.
“So we’re all hunting for trophies to hang on our wall.”
And what we SHOULD be doing is hunting for wonderful walls (girls with wonderful middos) to hang trophies (jewelery) on.
@ the op, she has been influenced by the world. it is sad, but it happens, do not judge her overly harshly for it. definitely if you are still dating her do not break up with her over this without consulting a rav. i was out with a girl who declared “today all girls need a rav for hashkafic support just like guys, i have my own rebbe, dont just expect me to be machnia to yours because you are a guy (meaning, if we ever get married, i will not just accept your rav and his hashkafos (which are mine as well) just because i am a girl. yes i know for sure thats what she meant).” i went to my rebbe with this and he said that given the state of society today, it can be easy for people to develop opinions about things, especially when it comes to hashkafa. hopefully people DO have someone reliable to guide them, and hopefully we will all grow up a little, and say a little less, as we get older.
The only thing to make a boy mature is to get a job and stop mooching off his parents.
You can’t be mature and live in a fantasy land.
TweetTweet, It all depends on how you define a good boy/girl. Do you mean Middos Tovos? Do you mean successful careergirls and top learners? Do you mean “Ivy League” Seminaries and Yeshivos?
When I think of a good girl or boy, I think of someone with beautiful middos, priorities set straight, listens to and respects Daas Torah and someone who is concerned with making Hashem proud.
According to my definition of the terms “good boy/girl”, I would have to disagree with your date. It’s hard to find, period. This goes for the boys AND the girls.
a good boy is a very broad term. i have plenty of friend that won’t look at a boy who is learning full time. they say what is his plan to support a family. on the other hand plenty girls won’t look at boys who are in school or working because why is he not learning. everyone has to do whats right for them and stop attacking everyone else.
The reality is that BPT is more correct than people give him credit for.
The examples he gave have to do with ones level of responsibility and maturity, not earning potential.
The average 21 year old girl is and almost always will be more responsible and mature than even a 24 year old guy simply because of what she has done been through and accomplished. Yes, the average bachur might be proficient in the first 14 daf of the standard yeshivishe masechtos, learns with hasmada for most of three sedarim a day and might have a reputation as a lamdan, this does not make him responsible, or mature.
I think all the naysayers are correct. Good girls, bad boys. It is high time all these girls boycott and refuse to marry the boys.
shlishi you better watch what you say…this is ny after all
Sorry for the delay in responding. The weekend got in the way. Here goes, point by point:
“if someone has a degree or a job they are “better” than someone who doesnt?”
No, that’s not what I meant and you know it. If she is 19 and working as a secratary in a 47th street firm, or a salesclerk in a clothing store that’s wonderful. That’s an entry level job, and earning enough money to pay for rent and food and tuition is not on her shoulders. Its on HIS.
“There are plenty of boys who went to school and got some kind of degree.”
Far and few, at least in the black-hat, BMG world.
“Whats wrong with deciding to go to school after learning a few years? “
Nothing. Unless it at the expense of his kids being rasied by a babysitter. Good rule of thumb? Learn for as long as you like; until she expecting. Then its time to be the tatty you claim to be.
Tro11 – Boy, your post looks awfully familar. Not sure what your aim was, but it caught my eye.
And for the record, SHE is never wrong. You just misunderstood her
Of course girls/ women/ females in general are more good compared to men. We are born with an innate sensitivity of morality, modesty and others’ feelings.
We didn’t participate in the golden calf. We didn’t even hand over our jewellery. Women are less likely to step outside a marriage and cheat, in comparison to how often it happens amongst married men. We say each morning “sheasani kirtzoynoy” -Who has made me according HIS WILL.
Always, did you lift this from the “magic touch” speech by Rabbi Wallerstein?
never even heard of him
Of course girls/ women/ females in general are more good compared to men. We are born with an innate sensitivity of morality, modesty and others’ feelings.We didn’t participate in the golden calf. We didn’t even hand over our jewellery.
Hmmmm. http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/are-women-reallyjewish
women are more good….i dont know what that means. men and women are different. created so. the way Hashem created women doesnt make them “more good”. thats like saying a bird is more good then a cat because it can fly. theyre different. with different nisyonos, different needs, etc. im not sure how everyone is defining better…at making supper? or at farshtaying a R Boruch Ber?
” never even heard of him “
Google it. You don’t know what you’re missing.
i didn’t read the other posts so i might be repeatative, but this is the way i look at it:
it takes a lot more from a boy to be a good boy then for a girl to qualify as a good girl.
we expect sooooo much of the boys, and don’t like to compromise on anything.
as for the girls, we don’t expect anything rather it’s either she’s a good girl or not.
what does good in a boy mean? well rounded in every aspect
what does good in a girl mean? well rounded in every aspect
the difference is in the aspects.
boys have musts. the girls don’t
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