Can a Golem Speak?

“Can a Golem Speak?”

There is not nor was there ever such a creature, so the question can not be answered.

I just met one; he could speak though he got very insulted when I called him a golem.

have you ever heard of the mharal from prauge he had a golem but they can`t speak

more recently – R’ Chaim Volozhiner writes that the Gra began to make one at age twelve, but was told to stop.

idk if he can speak but i am sure he can post

Hath not a Golem eyes? Hath not a Golem hands,

organs, dimensions, senses, affections, passions; fed with the same

food, hurt with the same weapons, subject to the same diseases,

heal’d by the same means, warm’d and cool’d by the same winter

and summer, as a Christian is? If you prick us, do we not bleed? If

you tickle us, do we not laugh? If you poison us, do we not die?

And if you wrong us, do we not revenge? If we are like you in the

rest, we will resemble you in that.

The Golem: Plenty? I know of 2, neither of which were documented well at all.

Old Man: No offense intended, because I have great respect for you, but I am going to call you out on something here. It is a flaw in the current rationalist thought that it is taken too far. Judaism (for the most part) believes in the supernatural. Thus, unless you want to claim to be an entirely Maimonidean rationalist (which I don’t think anyone is nowadays, but I guess you have what to rely on if that’s what you claim), you have taken rationalism too far. The Gemara is full of stories of the supernatural. Unless you want to say (like the Rambam) that every single one was a Mashal or something like that, there is no reason to deny the existence of a Golem. See also SHU”T Chacham Tzvi Siman 63 (maybe 93?), if I recall correctly.

oh and also, creating a golem has nothing to do with creating

yesh ma’ayin.

There are exact instructions on how to create a golem… the only problem is that in order to create it you have to be a complete yorei shamayim, and a complete yorei shamayim would never make one.

Old man, you don’t begin to know what you’re talking about. Have you ever heard of Sefer Hayetzira?

Probably not.

“A dream…yesh me’ayin”

Your logic is convoluted, which reminds me of your past posts…

There is no question that the Maharal had the capability to create a Golem. The Kli Yakar writes of miracles that the Maharal preformed.

Did it really happen? Insufficient documentation? Fine.

to Talmud

while it is evident that the maharal was on a level to create a golem, the evidence suggests that he did not, not merely a lack of evidence that he did.

this is as I remember it, I can’t point you to sources.

first, several biographies written just after his lifetime make no mention of it, even one written by a son or son-in-law.

second, the whole legend of the golem was created by someone who claimed to have found an old sefer in a library called something like niflaos maharal. this person already had a record as a forger.

that is the only source for the maharal golem story.

again I do not argue that he had the power to do so, only that in fact, there is less than reason to believe that he did.

I’ve never tried, so I don’t know.

ZD, it’s a clear Gemara. If someone wants to say it’s not literal, the burden of proof is on them.

nitpicker- There are skeptics to every claim, and that’s perfectly fine. But to take the opposite position on every claim, purporting that the evidence is on YOUR side, is blatantly incorrect.

There is a famous adage from the Steipler Goan, who said, “If you believe every tale you hear you are a heretic, and if you believe that every tale couldn’t have occurred, you are a heretic as well.

The same Steipler Goan, in his Sefer Hayei Olam writes, “It is known that the Maharal produced a Golem”

The Steipler was known to have Ruach Hakodesh.

This is not to say that every tale of the Golem is true. But that the Maharal did create a Golem.

old man, and nitpicker- your stances on many issues are completely unsupported, and your backward reasoning is very revealing of argumentative people who are brutally unlearned.

zahavasdad- “Many of the Medrashim cannot possibly be true. Many are contradictory”

-The first subscription of a true torah learner is that there are smarter and greater men out there, giants of torah, who can reconcile contradictions that thou cannot.

“Many were written in a code so that outsiders could not understand many were also subject to censors as well”

Before we effectively denounce all Jewish writings as possibly altered, and in-understandable, we must concede to the Torah Giants who are able to read and interpret the Amoraic writings effectively. The Vilna Gaon, Rashash, and others were able to discern the true text from altered writings and misprints, solely through their torah wisdom.

to Talmud

blatantly incorrect! blatantly!?

I wish I could remember the name of the forger. I tell you he had already been caught . there is only one source for the story, a supposed find in a library many years after the maharal.

a) that isn’t enough and b) a bad source at that.

and don’t group me with old man on this, my stance on this issue is nothing like his.

and also to attribute that quote about believing stories to the Steipler is laughable. ( hedging as usual I say that it is possible that he subscribed to it and repeated it, but it is not his statement. that was a hedge, but I think it more likely it is just a mis-attribution )

In these concepts, those who know don’t say and those who don’t know say. Golem are possible.

The Maharal Im sure was a great Anuv. What do you think would be his reaction if he could come alive today

He is probably the most famous Rabbi of the Central/Eastern European Era. He is not famous for any Sefer or Pshats, He is famous for making a Golem. He is one of the most famous residents of Prague, In fact so famous there is a statue of him in the City hall, Probably the only Rabbi to have a Statue in a European Capital City Hall.

What would be his reaction?

“He is probably the most famous Rabbi of the Central/Eastern European Era. He is not famous for any Sefer or Pshats, He is famous for making a Golem.”

neither statement is true.

incidentally, Yaakov dovid Shulman, a contemporary author of biographies, says in his book about the maharal that the golem legend is unsupported. then he includes for the sake of completeness (and to fill up a chapter) one of the golem stories.

nitpicker- “and also to attribute that quote about believing stories to the Steipler is laughable…”

It is attributed to him- don’t know if there are other sources before, but let me find the main topic for you-

The same Steipler Goan, in his Sefer Hayei Olam writes, “It is known that the Maharal produced a Golem”

(and I know you wish your argument wasn’t blatantly incorrect;)

Nitpicker, the Golem legend is way older than Reb Yiddel Rosenberg. The auther of Frankenstine said she got the idea from the Golem story. It is famously mentioned in the Bnei Yisaschar that the Maharal used the Sefer Yetzira. There are a few other stories about the Golem.

One of the famous “proofs” that he didn’t (usually a great undertaking) make one is that “his Talmid Reb Dovid Ganz” doesn’t mention it. I don’t know who ever made him a close Talmid, if there were any. Does he ever quote a Pshat from the Maharal? Even the Tosafos Yom Tov, who is often called a Talmid of the Maharal, doesn’t quote anything from the Maharal that is not from the Sefarim.

Second of all, his entry on the Maharal is in the Jewish year 252, when the Maharal came back to Prague to be the Rav.

True, we can’t trace the story back. Some say that perhaps the Golem of Reb Eliyahu Baal Shem, which we know about, was confused with the Maharal, since Reb Eliyahu Baal Shem also lived in Prague eventualy.

Perhaps it was only known to the non-Jews, who had personal experience.

Talmud, DY, etc: Just be careful in how strongly you put down the rationalists here. They have the Rambam in their corner. I agree that the Rambam’s super-rationalist view is a minority (and certainly nowadays), but it is not something that you can brush off as closed-minded or blatantly wrong.