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Who else tries to open yeshivas and bring in kids who are in public school to Judaism? nd not only in a huggy invite you to a shabbos meal thing but actually trying to build institutions. Who’s willing to be chaplains in the US Army and prisons to help Jews there? Yes there’s Lakewood and Kollel and things like that but the system doesn’t really give people who aren’t falling within their lines of Orthodoxy much of a chance. While Lakewood and like minded yeshivas have grown it doesn’t move the needle enough for people who aren’t there yet. Chabad does though.
Huh… I was wondering when another Chabad post would finally be made. It’s been a while!
Can’t wait to see what the guys wearing “Chabad-Masks” will come up with this time!
Kinda reminds me of Lord of the Flies. Bunch of kids trying to act like adults, the more they try to act like adults the deeper into chaos they get…until an actual adult comes and the kids stand embarrassed. Some things you just can’t fake, you know?
This is true and started at least under Fridrike Rebbe in US …
But there were/are people within Litvishe world addressing the issue – R Salanter was paying attention to less-observant. For example, there is a story of him gicing advice to merchants in Königsberg to first stop writing down list of merhandize on shabbos, then to stop sending ships out, etc – and he delayed announcing these ideas until a visiting Litvishe Yid leaves so that he does not get any ideas about partial observance. At some point, though he admits that Litvishe world is getting less observant and not listening and it is more productive to deal with those who are already at the bottom, like French Jews.
Chofetz Chaim also writes to Jews who are losing observance, separate books/articles for those in Poland and those in the Russian army (mahaneh yisroel) and those who left for goldene medinos (nidhei yisroel). Ponevezher Rav in Lita and R Moshe Soloveitchik in Poland were trying to combine secular education (desired by parents) with Jewish so that Jews don’t leave Jewish school. This is going beyond what Ch. Ch. was saying – simply imploring parents to send children to cheders. R Soloveitchik @ YU and Boston first yeshiva and then high school built on that. And he was well aware and very positive about what Chabad was doing.
In our times, there are a number of college hillel rabbis who do a great job. Meor and Oorah also.
Well there’s NCSY, Ohr Sameach, Aish Hatorah, Shuvu,
Just to name a few
So yes Chabad is going out to Times Square, Beaches, and night clubs to put tefillin on people but is that what Hashem really wants?
1) There are others who try to bring kids to yeshivos and build institutions.
2) The Chabad-Lubavitch sect is busy promoting their own religion (an offshoot of Yiddishkeit), with their long dead false messiah, their late Rebbuh, and their confused and corrupt theology. We don’t need more Lubavitcher apikorsim who believe in such rubbish. No one should be fooled into supporting them. They are promoting Chabadianity, Lubavitchism, not mainstream, normative Torah Judaism. Let no one be fooled by all their deceptive PR and their missionaries.
Oorah does exactly this.
When it first started, R’ Chaim Mintz went around knocking on doors, asking people to send their children to yeshiva.
NCSY also gets kids in public schools to be more observant, and I know a number of cases where kids left public schools and went to Jewish schools because of them.
Chabad likes to spin a narrative that they’re the only legitimate option out there. It’s just not true.My question is what damage are you allowed to risk yourself and your family when you try and find random people to put tefillin and eat at your shabbos meal (of which many are just there for the accommodations and go right back to their car after) ? I’m not saying that their heart isn’t in the right place, it absolutely is. But I’ve seen the results with my own eyes of some of the families that went out to remote areas without Jewish life and saw some of their own children leave the fold because they had almost no connection to Judaism. It’s a slippery slope and you should talk to a very experienced and knowledgeable Rabbi before embarking on these missions. But one thing’s for sure making a chabad house down the block from some of the most filthy places in the known world such as in Columbia or Thailand is not what Hashem would want from someone
To MSwaytogo
I like your style. Let me just add something to your point. According to Chabad theology all Jews will be redeemed by Moshiach. Schneersohn saw no distinction between Woody Allen and a Rosh Yeshiva. This said, why does Chabad take such pride in its Kiruv work? Let them continue to await Schneersohn’s “Second Coming” at which point he’ll snap his fingers and save every Jew.
To ??coffee addict
I spoke to my Rav, and he said that I don’t have to be Matir Neder regarding the psychofer because I clearly didn’t mean to ignore him.
@lakewhut
what about Oorah? Thats litfish. they send boys to yeshivas and have camps. Not knocking chabad but both could be true. I will also say that chabad has a challange because many never become frum and/ or just use it for a year or twoIs it a competition? Why? Can’t we simply recognize that other people do good things?
In any case, the Litvish world conceives of “kiruv” differently from Chabad. (I think this is true of pretty much everyone who is not Chabad, but I might be wrong.)
The Litvish conception of kiruv is to try to bring people closer to Hashem with the goal of eventually becoming fully observant.
Chabad, on the other hand, (as I understand it from my Lubavitch friends) focuses more on getting people to do Mitzvos.
But your examples are head scratchers; are you asserting that there are no Litvish institutions servicing the not-yet-frum? Do you really think there are no Litvish chaplains in prisons or the armed forces? If so, you are willfully ignorant.
@Lakewhut
No need to open a new thread. You can resurrect one of your old ones.
I wish everybody would stop humoring him.
Does anyone actually consider NCSY to be “Litvish”? I understand saying that about Oorah, though Litvish is a misnomer. NCSY is being referenced around here a lot when it is a Modern Orthodox organization and not Litvish per se. Its leadership wouldn’t define it as Litvish, and in most contexts, most people here wouldn’t call it that! The existence of individual Yeshivish staff members doesn’t change that.
Is Litvish here being defined as synonymous with non-Chabad? And then you can think about how some Chassidim call non-Chassidim Litvish even when they’re not from Lita. A transgender lesbian Reconstructionist “kohenet” can be Litvish, while a Charedi non-Chassidic Sephardi talmid chacham who values Yeshivos is not Litvish when you think about what Litvish is. But I digress.
Chabad doesn’t have a monopoly on Kiruv. It is also really weird to think of NCSY as Litvish, but fits in the broader theme of Orthodox – Chassidish = Litvish.Qwerty,
I didn’t think you did it �’תורת � �”ר
However you know what is said about hog wrestling
You’re going to get just a dirty as the hog however it’s the one having fun
Many sects have their positives and negatives. Chabad has certainly been a leader in taking achrayus for klal yisrael and and litvish have excelled in level of learning. Are there great learners in chabad and are there people in the litvish camp that have stepped up and done things for klal yisrael, of course. Each one has their failings as well. The same goes for sefardim, chasidim and dati leumi. The job I you and I have is to say “what are the positive things I can learn from the other camp and incorporate them into my life?” If all you can do is bash another camp and not look inside that says a lot about you.
To rebEmes
Lubavichers have no concept of Hashem. Their god is six feet under in Queens. Their belief system is based on doing what they think Schneersohn would want from them. I read a story about one of the early Shluchim. He went to some faraway place and was upset because no Jews were there that he could be Mikarev. He told this to the Rebbe in writing and the response was, “If you’ll be there sixty years and one day a Jew will show up and you’ll give him a can of soda and he’ll make a Brocho, your shlichus was worth every minute.” This is insanity, but this is Chabad. The absolute belief in anything Schneersohn said even when he said things that were against the Torah.
To DaMoshe
When Butman senior had his radio show he would regularly make statements like, “When G-d Almighty looks down and sees 5000 Shluchim spreading Torah in the world.” As far as Chabad is concerned nothing else exists. I’ll share a story to that point. About 35 years ago I spent a Shabbos in CH. with my wife who was friends with a Lubavitch couple. On Shabbos afternoon we came to 770 and there was a large gathering. A young fellow from Florida, obviously a BT said to one of the Rabbis, “I love Chabad but why does mainstream Judaism reject you?” The Rabbi answered, “We are mainstream Judaism.” That’s the problem and there is no solution. The only question is how great the damage will be that’s caused by them.
Wow- nice to see so many yidden making the Chofetz Chaim proud while you speak lotion hora/rechilus
And when you need a minyan or kosher food on vacation… we all know who you rely on.
BH there are some Jews who know how to see the good in othersYet, when you are in a foreign place and need minyan or kosher food where is usually the only place to go…
We may not agree will all of what Chabad does, and what some of their followers have turned into, but their main mission has gotten more jews to a shabbos dinner, or minyan than any other groupUnfortunately with selective kiruv ( only showing love but never revealing punishments and the requirements of the Torah) you end up with people who come to you for years and still haven’t started keeping Shabbos. If the goal is to get them to a Shabbos table and give them a good time but then they leave thinking they’re great and accepted with no plans for observance you sent completely the wrong message. And just for the record if there isn’t 10 shomrei shabbos in the minyan the minyan is PASUL. So you might think it’s nice to give an Aliya to mr.max who hasn’t ever been religious in his life but he can’t get an Aliya. It’s simple halacha. You don’t disregard Jewish law because you have good intentions. Then the entire religion falls apart on the spot. Look how some Wicked woman out there is trying to do officially a good thing of getting women released from trapped marriages, and in the meantime she’s trampled on every Torah principle in existence. I’m sure many will know who I’m talking about but giving up modesty and family purity and deciding that any line can be crossed because we feel bad for someone, that’s not Judaism. It’s wickedness with a giant price to pay
Distinguishing between different ways is secondary to the tremendous need of saving millions of assimilating yidden. Ans those involved understand it. Oorah, chabad, modern shuls do things together when appropriate.
And in us, chabad was one of the earlier ones to take on the issue. Those who came later should acknowledge that and try to be as dedicated as many shluchim are, not just seeing this as a job.
Yidden that are traveling can manage fine without the Chabad-Lubavitch sect and its missionary bases. Jews have been traveling for thousands of years. Those that know Torah, halacha, and have some common sense, can manage with the local food available and what they bring along. How did Avraham Avinu travel, how did Yaakov go to Mitzrayim if there was no HABAD house there, how did they get kosher food? What are Jews today, a bunch of spoiled, helpless wimps that can’t do anything for themselves anymore (Chas veSholem)? If so, that is a real shame.
Re minyanim on the road, there are various Shuls, believe it or not. They may be different than what you have at home, perhaps Sephardic, Modern Orthodox, but those can still be used. Or you can organize an ad-hoc minyan at times. There is no need to go to the HABAD. And those that truly hold Chabad is not acceptable would rather daven biyechidus than join their prayers, just like they wouldn’t pray in a Reform or Conservative Temple.
Wake up Yidden, don’t let yourself be brainwashed by the HABAD, use your head, think for yourself.
There is only Chabad going in search for EVERY Jew. “Every” is key.
Without them, the only group out there are empty Reform buildings. Nothing else.
Google tells me Lakewood has 100,000 Jews. One town, one small group. America is a big place.Every sector of judaism emphasizes something else. I’m sure if a yeshivishe guy finds a person looking to become frum he’ll be mekarev him. In chabad, they emphasized mass outreach. it sounds like you feel there’s a lack of outreach in the world for some reason. is it an halachic claim?
@ ashergg
you wrote: “Every sector of judaism emphasizes something else. I’m sure if a yeshivishe guy finds a person looking to become frum he’ll be mekarev him. In chabad, they emphasized mass outreach.”
Wrong. The Yeshivos where (and continue to be) the most effective means of mass outreach. Both qualitatively and quantitatively.
To the group
AAQ speaks of the task of saving millions of assimilating Jews. If, in fact, the problem was assimilating Jews then he and jdf007 who laud Chabad for reaching out to “EVERY” Jew would be correct. The problem is that we’re not dealing with assimilating Jews. We’re dealing with assimilated Jews. Rabbi Chaim Bruk writes for the FTJT. He’s the Chabad shliach in Bozeman, Montana. After this year’s Pesach he wrote that he distributed about 300 packages of Matzohs to Jews in Bozeman. The problem is, as he readily admits, basically every Jew in his jurisdiction has a gentile spouse. Mainstream Kiruv is not going to deal with such people because they can’t be reached, but for Chabad it’s just about giving them Matzahs for Pesach or candles to the women to light on Shabbos. They aren’t concerned as to where this will lead. As for Chabad’s efforts to be Mikarev teenagers and those in college, this is admirable and should be praised and encouraged.
Chabad keeps trying to trick us into thinking their religion and Judaism is one and the same. It’s not.
?? coffee addict
I make sure not to directly engage the atheist.
Qwerty613 stop dehumanizing people please thanks
@non political It really doesn’t seem so, but fine, i guess you’re the expert. The Rabbi of chabad actually made an emphasis to the point of building a huge network with thousands of sheluchim ww. But Maybe there’s a movement in the yeshivishe world I don’t know of, I guess.
qwerty,
there is a chosid shoteh who would not save a drowning woman, but you go beyond that – you criticize those who do. There are plenty of Jews who became observant thru chabad, including those who had non-Jewish spouses, although I mostly met those who did this while not married yet. There is plenty of room to criticize some of their views and views of those who became chabadnikim but this does not take away from their mesirus nefesh and achievements. You would be better off directing your efforts in either helping them in their efforts the way you think is better or just start your own organization.NP > The Yeshivos where (and continue to be) the most effective means of mass outreach. Both qualitatively and quantitatively.
I don’t think so. Yeshivos achievements are in outreach to those who are ortoprax but not learned much and don’t know how to teach their children, which, surprisingly, includes those who went through the yeshiva system themselves. But it does not include many other groups. According to knowledgeable people, US Jewry consists of 2 millions who are in the Jewish derech and will increase in numbers and 4 millions who are on the way to assimilation. These are staggering numbers. I am just off a scientific conference where I was approached by 1) non-observant Jews 2) Jews who used to be observant 3) non-Jews married to Jews waho curiously remarked that he now found it that his kids are Jewish …
As rav shach famously said, chabad is the closest religion to Judaism. Giving pesach packages to intermarried families is the biggest waste of money possible and a disrespect to the donors, we have enough starving religious families that need the help. People that actually contribute to the world with Torah that’s where the help should be going
I think many are forgetting the smaller (but functional) Frum communities where the Shul’s Ruv, Kollel guys & Rebbeim (& TMorahs) in the community day school are from Yeshivish backgrounds.
To rebEmes
The people who support Chabad generally don’t give their money to Torah causes. Let me share a story. I used to attend a Young Israel which had a Chabad Rabbi. When I showed up, he made me Gabbai and told me that I can’t give an Aliyah to a certain fellow because he’s a Kohen married to a divorcee. A year after I left the Shul, I discovered that two of the congregants, who regularly received Aliyahs were married to Goyim. The Rabbi didn’t tell me because they were Russian Jews and Chabad’s main target is Russians so he was afraid that they’d leave if they didn’t get Aliyahs. Chabad plays all kinds of games with Halacha. BTW, if you check out VIN today the psycho BMG guy is after me again. He’s used 13 aliases so far. My crime is that I took a mild shot at Chabad.
To Always
You are a liar and a fool. American Jews aren’t “assimilating” they have “assimilated” Eighty percent are intermarried. There is no Mitzvah to perform Kiruv on an intermarried couple. I’m not criticizing Chabad for doing so, because they’re following Schneersohn’s orders, but let’s not praise them for throwing out millions upon millions of dollars on Jews who are spiritually dead. Don’ try to con anyone that Chabad gets intermarrieds to become frum. No one is buying that lie.
I never met anyone in my life that said the reason they are religious today is because of the lubavitchers. Not one. Most of their work is wasted on hopeless cases like mentioned before of people literally not on the path and hopelessly intermarried, because their goal is to get people to do mitzvahs even if those people are disqualified from actually doing them already simply because they don’t keep the Sabbath. This is clear rambam and shulchan aruch, a non shomer shabbos who u put tefillin on is basically a nonjew who put on tefillin. The only reason it would pay to do this is if they are being pushed in the direction of observing more but not comforted to stay the same or just ignored after they put it on. And they’re also famous for helping people going to questionable places for vacation so they could have a kosher meal between all the Forbidden things that they are doing. In my opinion you shouldn’t put a Jewish Family out there for the sake of helping people sin
To lakewhut
Chabad does not have yeshivas all over the globe, they have Chabad houses. Don’t conflate the two.
Please source for saying one should not do kiruv with intermarried jews? Especially if they come from communist countries or totally reform. What next: look down at concentration camp survivors for having a tattoo?
I see here a number of posters having hard time relating to jews who grew up in non religious environment and why don’t they start keeping mitzvos from seeing someone in black hat passing by. So more so, when talking to people who spent 70+ years under anti religious persecution and then moving to “free world” where religious jews pay minimal attention to them.
“There is no Mitzvah to perform Kiruv on an intermarried couple”
Why not? They have the same Jewish status as you and me, even if the chances of them becoming frum are extremely low, that doesn’t take away from the importance and value of each individual Mitzvah you can get them to perform. And if so why are you saying that all of this money is being wasted? Its helping Jews perform more mitzvos who otherwise wouldn’t,
(I understand that you might think that there is better causes for the money to go to, but because of that to say its all going to waste is a bit extreme)To Reb qwerty613
“Chabad plays all kinds of games with Halacha”
if you’re considering a Heter from a Rov (which I’m assuming this rabbi got based on the explanation you gave for why he did it (although it could be your personal Rabbi and for that matter most Rabonim would not hold of it)) games, fine. But if you’re suggesting that this Rabbi and Chabad as a whole chooses which Halachos to keep and which to throw away, exactly like reform does, I would be curious to hear what makes you think thatTo Reb qwerty613
“Chabad plays all kinds of games with Halacha”
if you’re considering a Heter from a Rov (which I’m assuming this rabbi got based on the explanation you gave for why he did it (although it could be your personal Rabbi and for that matter most Rabonim would not hold of it)) games, fine. But if you’re suggesting that this Rabbi and Chabad as a whole chooses which Halachos to keep and which to throw away, exactly like reform does, I would be curious to hear what makes you think thatqwerty There is a significance in an individual coming closer to hashem. Wouldn’t you agree that even if millions are spent a year and only one jew comes closer to hashem it’s already worth it. We could get into the other sacrifices made in the process but i don’t know the details. money ain’t the issue. In addition, I think that even if the jew won’t become frum but still hold some sort of kesher with his creator, it’s also worth it. You have to go in to the background of the inyan and understand the chashivus, and know the numbers. I personally know of an intermarried man that gave a divorce after connecting to his local chabad rabbi and becoming mekuriv. I don’t know all the numbers, but i do know that they for sure have some what of an impact and it seems like you have a full on detailed analysis with the numbers not shtiming in the end.
@ Lakewhut
“Chabad has yeshivas all over the globe”
Chabbad houses are not Yeshovos
“They learn chasidus as well as nigleh.”
No, They learn specifically Chabbad Chassidus. They just call it Chassidus stam, (just like the the call the Sidur of the Baal HaTanya – Nusach Ari stam and the Shulchan Aruch of the Baal HaTanya – Shulchan Aruch stam). That’s part of the problem.
Another part of the problem is learning is mis-learning sisrei Torah with everyone regardless of qualification. One of the great Mkubalim of this generation, HaRav Yaacov Hillel has written and spoken at length about this grievous error and its consequences.
What you wrote about Yeshivos and Coomunity Kollim is silly. Simply walk into the B”M of any major Yeshiva. Walk into a B”M of any thriving community Kollel. Experience the kol Torah for yourself.
@AAQ
“Yeshivos achievements are in outreach to those who are ortoprax but not learned much and don’t know how to teach their children”
It’s not about knowing or not knowing how to teach your children. It’s about being mkabel Torah from the Hachmei HaDor who themselves where mkabel from the Hachamim of the previous Dor. It’s about learning Torah a full day b’ameilus. It’s about Benai Torah building vibrant communities where even those who eventually become eirlich ba’alai batim have an appreciation what it means to learn b’havanah yesharah. Communities led by Rebbeim worthy of the title.
To qwerty “I’m not criticizing Chabad for doing so, because they’re following Schneersohn’s orders”Well are you suggesting that they are just following the lubavitcher rebbe with blind Faith and that he has no sources for this in the Torah? (even if you may not agree with it, it can still be a legitimate Derech, right?). It seems to me that there’s a big difference in understanding between you and Chabad about the value Hashem has (and which Torah gives) for a individual jew doing a Mitzvah, and to what extent you should go out to help another jew fulfill it (even if he won’t become frum). Just curious when you went to a public space did you ever take a pair of Tefilin with you to see if maybe someone would be interested in putting it on? There’s no money being wasted? And you’re we’re going either way. now you might think it would better if you would learn some Torah with him instead, but I’m sure you also see value in getting another jew to put on Tefilin.
To qwerty “I’m not criticizing Chabad for doing so, because they’re following Schneersohn’s orders”Well are you suggesting that they are just following the lubavitcher rebbe with blind Faith and that he has no sources for this in the Torah? (even if you may not agree with it, it can still be a legitimate Derech, right?).It seems to me that there’s a big difference in understanding between you and Chabad about the value Hashem has (and which Torah gives) for a individual jew doing a Mitzvah, and to what extent you should go out to help another jew fulfill it (even if he won’t become frum).Just curious when you went to a public space did you ever take a pair of Tefilin with you to see if maybe someone would be interested in putting it on? There’s no money being wasted? And you’re we’re going either way. now you might think it would better if you would learn some Torah with him instead, but I’m sure you also see value in getting another jew to put on Tefilin.
Qwerty no offense but it sounds to me that your saying something like this:
They don’t give to causes _i_ agree with. Calm down not everybody has to think exactly like youTo qwerty613. I would like to address some of the points you raised about Chabad and the Lubavitcher Rebbe. Regarding the comment that “Lubavitchers have no concept of Hashem,” I would ask what you believe every Chabad bochur is learning before Shacharis in yeshiva? That study is centered entirely on Hashem. I am curious if you have ever learnt Tanya or any other Chabad philosophy. Furthermore, you mentioned that “their belief system is based on doing what they think Schneersohn would want from them.” In reality, their belief system founded on the 13 principles of faith, just like any other frum Jew. While they certainly try their best to do what they believe their Rebbe wants from them, it is not the sole basis of their faith. Then, you spoke of an “absolute belief in anything Schneersohn said even when he said things that were against the Torah.” Can you please explain what exactly you mean by “against the Torah”? I believe the Lubavitcher Rebbe was very careful to follow the Torah. It is a bit misconceiving to claim someone says things against the Torah simply because you may have a different opinion on certain matters.
To KiddushClubDropout
Since you wrote respectfully to me, I will respond in kind. The Lubavitcher Rebbe had several positions which were at serious odds with accepted Torah norms. First, he claimed that the Friediger Rebbe was a Novi which flies in the face of the rule that Nevuah will not return to the Jewish people until Moshiach comes. And it’s based on that statement that most, if not all Lubavitchers, wrongly believe that Schneersohn was also a Novi. Second, and this is IMHO, more important, Schneersohn rejected the Gemara in Cheilek which said that only a small percentage of Jews will be redeemed by Moshiach. He famously stated that, in fact, Moshiach will redeem every Jew. This is critical because it’s at the heart of Chabad doctrine. As far as Chabad is concerned every Jew will be saved and so they’ll try to be Mikarev the Woody Allens of the world. Any study of Judaism makes it clear that Hashem is constantly weeding out the Jewish people. It began in Mitzrayim during the 9th plague and it continues to this day. Next, when I say that Lubavitchers have no concept of Hashem I know whereof I speak. Rabbi Shlomo Cunin, chief Chabad Rabbi of California, stated in a YouTube video in 2008 that it’s the Rebbe who runs the world and he will take us out of Golus. I can cite many more such anecdotal evidence if you request. I have no doubt that the Rebbe kept the laws of Judaism meticulously as do “all” his Chassidim, but his and their belief system has nothing to do with mainstream Judaism. As for your statement that what Chabad does, in reaching out to the disenfranchised isn’t a waste of time and money. I can agree with that point, but I said that in response to the posters who are making ridiculous claims that Chabad is trying to make millions of Jews frum. Finally, with regard to your statement that Chabad doesn’t play fast and loose with Halacha. There’s a Friday night Chabad “minyan” in my apartment building. I generally do not attend it, but last Friday night circumstances forced me to go. The “minyan” consisted of the Rabbi, his two adult sons, yours truly and one other Shomer Shabbos. The others were all following the Met game on their cell phones. Sorry, that’s not Halacha. And that’s not out of the norm. They make things up to meet the expediency of the moment.To ashergg
I agree and disagree with you. First, I agree with you that getting a person to come closer to Hashem, even if it doesn’t lead to him becoming frum is of great value. Therefore, I would never dismiss Chabad’s efforts. The problem is that getting a Mechallel to put on Tefillin in almost all cases doesn’t get him to come closer to Hashem. The case you cited is the exception that proves the rule. Moreover, as I said to KCD, I’m trying to battle the lie in this thread that Chabad is performing mass Kiruv, That’s total rubbish.
To always
The source you asked for is from the Book of Ezra. Ezra ordered those who had married gentiles to divorce their wives and stay away from the children of those unions, if they wanted to be part of the Jewish nation. Nothing has changed. If an intermarried couple comes for the Chabad Chanukah party, the next day they’ll go to a different party. Hameivin Yavin.
To RebEmes
Chabd has taught that anything goes but the only thing that goes is our Torah.
NP> It’s not about knowing or not knowing how to teach your children. It’s about being mkabel Torah from the Hachmei HaDor who themselves where mkabel from the Hachamim of the previous Dor.
I have such chachomim in my town and I learn with/from them. This was the norm before yeshiva movement started (became necessary because of changes in the world). There was a Bavli norm when students come to yeshiva twice a year.
> It’s about learning Torah a full day b’ameilus.
you can do same in your home town. You can also combine your learning with work.
> It’s about Benai Torah building vibrant communities where even those who eventually become eirlich ba’alai batim have an appreciation what it means to learn b’havanah yesharah. Communities led by Rebbeim worthy of the title.
Economics of such communities is very questionable. Most plan to become rebeim teaching each other’s children. A significant part of incoming funds might be based on goyishe tzedoka. This is not ehrliche.
This is not to deny multiple reasons for yeshivos, as I mentioned. But pretending that “living in the desert” (loshon Chazon Ish) is normal living is not right.
qwerty> The source you asked for is from the Book of Ezra. Ezra ordered those who had married gentiles to divorce their wives and stay away from the children of those unions, if they wanted to be part of the Jewish nation.
Ok, good you found this reference, so Ezra did outreach to those Jews. It is just your contention that this outreach should be ordering them to file divorces. Please point me to a kiruv organization (or your own experience) where Kiruv Ezra works in our times. If it does not, then we need other approaches. Again, what is your approach.
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