Dunkin Donuts Muffins

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  • #1784240

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Joseph, surely they rinse the scoop between flavors.

    I was just having this discussion with a friend, who said he has gotten vanilla in his chocolate ice cream.

    #1784242

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    similarly, in an oven, food that was previously heated inside of it — anything that is left of it, is no longer food. this can therefore be understood in the same manner

    That’s simply not true. Normal use of an oven doesn’t automatically kasher it.

    The comparison to gelatin is also totally inapt.

    #1784248

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    As previously discussed, there’s straight up Halacha that says burnt substances of any food are no longer considered food. When we’re talking about an oven, that’s the “flavor” you would be getting.

    False. You get regular, assur, ta’am.

    No shaychus to the gelatin issue.

    #1784256

    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    ” there’s straight up Halacha that says burnt substances of any food are no longer considered food”

    this is what I consider dangerous talk. Yes, maybe a ‘straight up Halacha’ says that, but we have no reason to believe an oven that is warming things gets hot enough to burn substances to that point. And what if they are in together? And what about the 10 times you use the oven while it is not yet burnt (if it burns at all?) When you throw out a known halacha as an aside in a conversation, even though it does not actually apply here, people get sucked in. And you can be misleading a lot of people. It is not being a machmir, it is about not making assumptions about anything that isn’t assumable and calling it a chazaka.

    #1784253

    shmaggegi
    Participant

    I’m not good with the actual sources, but it would be good to see them here, if anyone can show them. All i know is i learned these things many times from knowledgeable people. @daasyochid anything on your end? I’m fairly confident in this comparison with the gelatin.. and this entire idea about these substances not being considered food anymore

    #1784275

    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    You may have learned them from knowledgeable people but you are applying them Incorrectly and making erroneous assumptions. That is a very dangerous game to play. And to then assume you’re correct and just call everybody else strict is wrong

    #1784286

    shmaggegi
    Participant

    I’m not assuming I’m correct, I’m simply trying to generate discussion based on ideas I’ve learned over time.

    I think the nature of these forums really don’t translate things so well to a lot of readers. I keep trying to say that i don’t know many of these answers due to how complicated it is, which is why I’m asking for the discussion.

    Anyways, i don’t think we will get any further with this concept unless we get some trustworthy source regarding this oven stuff

    #1784327

    Milhouse
    Participant

    You’re okay with a Jew every now and then getting a little treif flavor?

    Why wouldn’t I be OK with it? Why are you not OK with it? If a serving of a certain vegetable has less than a 10% chance of having an insect in it, we eat it without checking, even though that means every now and then we will eat an insect.

    #1784385

    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    Thanks much for clarifying.

    #1784418

    Joseph
    Participant

    Milhouse: NYC tap water has less than a 10% likelihood of having an insect in a drink. Why then do the hechsherim still insist it be filtered?

    #1784423

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    It has more than a 10% chance, depending on location.

    #1784425

    charliehall
    Participant

    Back to bagels…most bagels in the Bronx are kosher from the same OU certified facility in the South Bronx — Just Bagels. If like me you keep crazy hours you see their trucks, which feature the OU, making deliveries late at night and early in the morning.

    #1784426

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    I’m not good with the actual sources, but it would be good to see them here, if anyone can show them.

    See Pri Megadim (Eshel Avraham) in O.C. 451:30, towards the end, where it’s clear that ordinary use of an oven doesn’t burn out the issur.

    However, the bigger problem here anyhow is the potential for the (supposedly – we haven’t established this) kosher muffin being in the oven simultaneously with non kosher food. Even if they didn’t touch, see Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 108 (R’ma) that l’chatchilah you shouldn’t buy it.

    Plus, here, we have no way of knowing if it did or didn’t touch any non kosher food (or non kosher tray or rack).

    #1784430

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    There’s also a possibility of it being heated at the same time as a non kosher liquid (e.g. soup) which would even be assur b’dieved.

    #1784432

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Or the issur being a davar charif.

    #1784439

    shmaggegi
    Participant

    “However, the bigger problem here anyhow is the potential for the (supposedly – we haven’t established this) kosher muffin being in the oven simultaneously with non kosher food. ”

    Ok, well, what about if they just give it to you without any oven use.. I’m pretty sure they just get it off the truck and stick it straight onto those shelves.

    #1784436

    Milhouse
    Participant

    Joseph, the OU, which is the major hechsher in the USA, does not require NYC water to be filtered.

    #1784447

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Is “pretty sure” good enough? Do we really know that they’re actually baked with a reliable hashgacha? Even if some DD locations get muffins from a facility which has a good hashgacha, do we know all do? Even if we can somehow ascertain that a specific DD gets their fully baked muffins from a kosher facility, how do we know that they won’t use a different source if they run out?

    #1784465

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    shmagegei

    “Ok, well, what about if they just give it to you without any oven use.. I’m pretty sure they just get it off the truck and stick it straight onto those shelves.”

    Why are you still ” pretty sure”? Go to the dunkin donuts look and ask around. This isnt complicated stuff. there is no need to make assumptions. none of us know what store you are referring to, where they get their stuff from etc. Go find out it will take an hour tops .
    then reports what you find to a knowledgeable person and you’ll get your answer.

    There is no need to make random assumptions neither about the how the store operates nor the halacha

    #1784477

    shmaggegi
    Participant

    we don’t know any of that, we would only know if we “certify” a specific store ourselves, as someone mentioned earlier, by asking them all of these questions. and regarding trusting the answers we receive, well i guess theres no guarantee there

    #1784491

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    regarding trusting the answers we receive, well i guess theres no guarantee there

    It’s not a matter of guarantees, it’s a question of halachic ne’emanus, which there generally isn’t.

    #1784497

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    shmagegi
    “we don’t know any of that, we would only know if we “certify” a specific store ourselves,”

    so do it. dont be lazy. How do you think any store is certified. do you think people ask online foums “anybody know how entemans? operates? I’m pretty sure they don’t use lard anybody hear anything different” don’t ask US what goes on in a store that we can’t possibly know the metzius of (we dont even know where you live !) go to the store and ask
    you probably could’ve been enjoying your delicious muffins by now if you really wanted to

    #1787866

    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    I’d rather have a donut

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