September 1, 2008 1:09 pm at 1:09 pm #588106
It seems that today almost EVERYONE (in the yeshivish community) moves to Lakewood after marriage. Some like myself start out in Eretz Yisroel but they too eventually end up in Lakewood. I do not mean to put down Lakewood or BMG Ch”V. It is a beautiful town full of Torah and Yiddishkeit. I was just wondering if anyone had any ideas how a trend can be started for people to move to other places for those couples who a. the husband does not go for the learning style in BMG, b. would like a Kollel that actually pays, c. the wife needs a place that has job availabilities that pay more than $12.00 an hour! d. All of the above! Of course there are many Kollelim in other places but most people need at least a couple of friends to start out with. I personally know a lot of people who say that they are not interested in going to Lakewood but will or did already end up there because of lack of any where else to go. Any comments?September 1, 2008 3:22 pm at 3:22 pm #621095
waterbury is a young community that people are moving to.September 1, 2008 3:24 pm at 3:24 pm #621096
There are plenty of reasons to want to live out of Lakewood, but if all you’re capable of earning is $12 an hour in Lakewood, odds are that you’re not going to paid any more (if that much) elsewhere.September 1, 2008 3:39 pm at 3:39 pm #621097
There are many many other towns outside of the NY area that have fine kollelim and great Yiddishkeit.
There is life west of New Jersey…September 1, 2008 5:29 pm at 5:29 pm #621098
af al pi cainParticipant
Is it possible for people familiar with smaller towns outside of the NY metro area to mention them here? Specifically towns that are less exclusive and intolerant, but with a kehilla large enough to meet the needs of a frum family?September 1, 2008 6:13 pm at 6:13 pm #621099
Miami has a wonderful community.September 1, 2008 6:32 pm at 6:32 pm #621100
Try HOUSTON. I have a couple of friends who moved there and are extremely happy. The standard of living is excellent and costs way less than living in NY. It is getting more young frum couples, and they are able to actually afford mansions for what they would pay for a very small, plain house with no property, here.September 1, 2008 7:20 pm at 7:20 pm #621101
thanks for the tip but it’s not true; There are much less opportunities in Lakewood in certain fields such as special ed. Also, everyone knows that there are so many young females looking for jobs in Lakewood that it is very hard to get something that pays well. Also, unless you are learning in BMG for a few years, you cannot even think of getting paid. I don’t want to sound money hungry but you gotta have money to live.September 1, 2008 7:22 pm at 7:22 pm #621102
Can you specify? Of course I know that there are a lot of towns. But are they comprised of mainly older families? More modern? I have no problem with that but am curious about more heimish/yeshivish towns.September 1, 2008 11:34 pm at 11:34 pm #621103
I don’t know exactly how special ed works in Lakewood, but I would assume, in general, the $12/hour office people are doing general secretarial work. If you are out of Lakewood, though, a special ed job would likely entail either working for the public school system or an agency, all of which will pay significantly above $12/hour. I’m sure they pay more than that in Lakewood, too. I’d guess that someone with a special ed degree earning $12/hour in Lakewood (if that’s even the case), is just working as a regular teacher for those exact hours between babysitting pick-up and drop-off. I’ve no doubt that there are public school systems nearby that pay significantly more for full time employees.September 2, 2008 6:44 am at 6:44 am #621104
Try Israel. Remember, anyplace in E”Y has more kedusha than anyplace in the U.S.September 2, 2008 7:47 am at 7:47 am #621105
I am suggesting Waterbury. I live here and I love it…
It’s your typical growing jewish community… yes you may have to go to NY to get kosher food, but thats how every other jewish community began…so move here!September 2, 2008 9:15 am at 9:15 am #621106
I don’t mean literally $12/hour. I am sure plenty of people are making that amount. I have plenty of friends there and I know how it works. If you get a better or more professional job it’s probably up to $20. That is not my point. There are less opportunities. This is just a point I brought out not something I meant to focus on.September 2, 2008 12:43 pm at 12:43 pm #621107
jphone: Miami’s not an option – too much pritzus, the same holds true for LA. (but regardless of that, these 2 places aren’t cheap to live at all) – try Detroit, very affordable housing (some are running for less than $100,000) – just be cautious of the job situation there, where unfortunately they’ve been hit hard latelySeptember 2, 2008 1:24 pm at 1:24 pm #621108
kitzur_dot_net, Is the frum community in Southfield/Oak Park shrinking?September 2, 2008 5:35 pm at 5:35 pm #621109
What’s the job situation like in Waterbury, now that we’re on that topic?September 2, 2008 6:00 pm at 6:00 pm #621110
Can you give more details about these places?
Also, what about already established communities other than Lakewood such as Monsey etc. Do any of you know about young people moving there or Kollels etc.September 2, 2008 6:21 pm at 6:21 pm #621111
First off I’m not “yeshivish,” and I live in Lakewood because I have a lot of family in town, and a Rav who has known me for nearly ten years, and I like that when push comes to shove, the Jewish people here are always looking out for each other.
Unless you’re living in NYC, the pay is much better for those who have no post high school education, plus people are getting paid off the books, so $12 equals to a lot more if it were on the books.
Yes this town has grown significantly in the past ten years or so. People from NY were sick and tired of the high costs of houses and rentals. They saw a big 4 bedroom home for under $200,000 and thought that was a steal! Plus, for those who lived in brooklyn, now get to live in neighborhoods filled with backyards for their kids to run around. My sister, her husband and 6 children moved to lakewood some years back because of those very reasons, that was also the last time they ever went to the bungalow colony for the summer.
Now the town has become too over populated for it’s size, that the traffic here is atrocious! Just as a safety reminder, Stay off the roads between 6:00ish-8:00ish, the driving is out of control! sadly (and very embarrassingly) most of the terrible drivers that time of day are Jews. (The proof is on the dash-cam & the traffic cameras)September 2, 2008 6:33 pm at 6:33 pm #621112
yoshi: So you’re saying that people in Lakewood cheat on their taxes by getting paid off the books and not paying what they should?
Yeah, seems like real frum people to me.September 2, 2008 6:48 pm at 6:48 pm #621113
Truth is I will probably end up in Lakewood. I guess I thought there was more out there than there is. But according to the responses I got it seems that I was wrong.September 2, 2008 7:48 pm at 7:48 pm #621114
I moved to monsey a bunch of years ago for the same reasons as you cite. Not money hungry but you gotta live. When I moved here there were very few young yeshivish families but it has grown. There are now several new kollelim and a street called Dykstra Way which looks like any lakewood street – lots of kollel families kain yirbu.September 2, 2008 7:56 pm at 7:56 pm #621115
Come on! Don’t generalize!
Who said it’s true and if it is it doesn’t mean it’s BECAUSE they are frum.September 2, 2008 8:13 pm at 8:13 pm #621116
Feif Un – Whoa there buddy, relax, I wasn’t insinuating anything like that, nor am I staying that kind of thing doesn’t happen here. I was just stating reasons why people would want to move here. There are just a lot more simplicities in this town. Used to be (a couple years ago) you could get a 3 bedroom newly built basement apt for $800 including all utilities. Now those people who can’t afford their houses (or never could to begin with) because their interest only plans are bye-bye, are renting these basements for $1,200+. But, on the bright side of things, the housing market has dropped significantly. I saw a few houses around the Spruce Street area for around and under $200,000 for a 3+ bedroom house in good condition.
Plus how can anyone pass the numerous amount of eateries we have here, and how nearly every development has their own; mikvahs, shuls, dry cleaners, pizza place, pharmacy, and then some!September 2, 2008 8:34 pm at 8:34 pm #621117
Passaic is a great “Lakewood alternative” too.September 2, 2008 8:59 pm at 8:59 pm #621118
Passaic is a little bit on the expensive side when it comes to the food department.September 2, 2008 9:11 pm at 9:11 pm #621119
The strip malls along route 9 are just as pritsusdik as the malls in Miami.
Nobody goes to Lakewood for Spring Break, and they dont go to North Miami Beach either.
Miami is not one big beach.September 3, 2008 8:30 am at 8:30 am #621121
Joseph: I don’t think Southfield/OP are shrinking. I know some ppl have left there due to job problems. Find out directly from someone there, if you’re truly interested in moving. Let me know if you need help.September 3, 2008 12:42 pm at 12:42 pm #621122
ml, Passaic may be more expencive on food, but you are less than an hour from Brooklyn and about 20 from Monsey. You could go there for big shopping. Passaic is a beautiful community. There is a kollel, a variaty of shuls, a bakery, milichig and fleishig restarounts and 2 sforim stores. Transportation to Manhattan is easy. Its a great place to live.September 3, 2008 11:35 pm at 11:35 pm #621123
Intellegent: From your post it sounds like earning potential and cost is two of the factors that you are considering. As others have said there is life outside of Brooklyn, and New Jersey. I live in NJ and grew up in Brooklyn. The taxes-real estate and income will eat you up. Then, the Yeshiva tuition will tax you like you have never been taxed. Housing prices in the Northeast are higher as well. Why not do pilot trips to Baltimore, Cleveland or Columbus Ohio, Houston or Dallas, Texas? Even North Miami Beach or Boca Raton have kollels that look up to the people learning there. I am not sure about Memphis, if it has a kollel or not but the cost of living in the South can’t compare to NY/NJ. The nice thing about these communities is that everyone counts. You and your husband can make a difference in these communities far easier than in NJ. Don’t be travel shy. There is Yiddeshkeit west of the Hudson River. People don’t kill themselves to pay for the standard of living that you expect or want. Yes, there isn’t twenty pizza stores and five bakeries but that is the sacrifice you have to make to live a calmer lifestyle.September 4, 2008 11:11 am at 11:11 am #621124
Thanks for your advice!! I grew up right off 13th avenue. Everything I needed from a grocery to a shoe store was literally within a block of my house! But I agree that everything has it’s proes and cons and living in the “city” is definitely not calm!
You said that in my post it seems that money is the primary concern. It definitely is a concern but a big concern is a Kollel for my husband. He needs more a Lakewood-type crowd. He grew up in Lakewood and I in brooklyn so I am not really looking for a REAL out-of-town place necessarily. I just don’t want to be limited to Lakewood.
Any other ideas?September 4, 2008 8:09 pm at 8:09 pm #621125
Dear Intellegent: Forgive me, but I never learned in a kollel so I do not know the difference between various kollels. What do you mean by a Lakewood type crowd? Again, Baltimore and Cleveland come to mind. Both have tremendous yeshivot and the cost of living is less. Baltimore is 3-4 hours away by car from NJ/NY-Cleveland is 8 hours. You need to make a list of your priorities and see which community meet those requirements.If my wife was not so close with her parents, who live in NY, I would have left the NY Metro area a long time ago. Not to knock NJ life, but the quality of life outside of the Metro area is so much better to me. It sounds like you are looking for more than what Lakewood has to offer and you may find it if you look hard enough. I wish you hatzlacha in your decision.September 4, 2008 8:17 pm at 8:17 pm #621126
Dear Intellegent: I notice on the community calendar of The Yeshiva World that the Houston Kollel is having its 10th Annual Dinner on Sept. 14. Maybe you should speak to families in the Houston Kollel? I also forgot to mention that Denver, Chicago and St. Louis and Atlanta are cities to look into for the Kollel and Yiddeshkeit.September 4, 2008 10:28 pm at 10:28 pm #621127
I currently live in Yerushalayim so I don’t think it would be very possible for me to make it to the dinner?? 🙂
Do these people live on ranches? JK!!September 4, 2008 10:29 pm at 10:29 pm #621128
Oh, and thanks for all the other info!
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