Kashrus of Dunkin Donuts

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  • #1022408

    I know less than nothing about kashrus but to my ignorant eyes it seems that people in this topic are piling chumras on top of chumras and wondering why other people aren’t keeping them.

    IIRC, a strong case can be made that dishwashers cannot become milchig, fleishig or treif. The same goes for microwaves (although for different reasons, I’m sure). Now, when we have a store that has some treif keilim we are mechuyav to assume that all the keilim are treif because they may have been washed together? When a store with Kashrus supervision makes one little mistake, with a microwave, which is arguably not a problem at all, and they lose their hechsher as a result – people say that they wouldn’t eat in Dunkin Donuts with a hechsher.

    Same idea for cholov yisrael. Is there a source for the idea that we need to suspect that someone switched it? There is a halacha about wine, and there is a halacha about meat, when they’ve been left open with no supervision. But both of those are assur gamur if they were switched and there is a significant motivation to switch since they’re expensive and the price difference is drastic. In the case of milk it’s at worst switched for chalav stam, the price is cheap and the difference insubtantial. Does it follow that there is necessarily an issue to drink milk that’s been left unsupervised?

    #1022409
    chevron
    Member

    ” Now, when we have a store that has some treif keilim we are mechuyav to assume that all the keilim are treif because they may have been washed together?”

    If they were washes together with hot water, you have a problem.

    “Same idea for cholov yisrael. Is there a source for the idea that we need to suspect that someone switched it?”

    Someone in this very thread testified that exactly happened in a store she frequented.

    #1022410
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    VM,

    If you keep CY as a chumra, you can decide to be meikil where you want and take your chances. If you hold of it as the actual din, I don’t think you can.

    In the local convenience store, owned and operated by non-Jews, they sell containers of CY milk. They also keep an open one for coffee. They’ve been caught refilling with cholov stam. Why wouldn’t they?

    #1022411

    1. Chevron and DY: If a dishwasher at least arguably cannot become treif, then how exactly would one utensil within a dishwasher make another one treif? Is the entire dishwasher filled up with water at the same time? Are we assuming that if some amount of treif food was stuck to the pan and went into the dishwasher and during the wash cycle that food touched a coffee pot within the swirl of soapy water, that the pot would then be treif? I mean, maybe. But I can’t imagine that if it happened in your kitchen sink, your rov would say it’s treif. Why should it be different if it happens in Starbucks?

    2. That is not how halachic suspicion works. If someone knows someone who switched the milk in a specific case, that does not mean that there is a halachic chashash that the milk was switched in other cases.

    2a. I don’t believe that there’s a substantive difference between keeping Cholov Yisroel as a din or as a chumra. Since nobody can claim that it has the status of treif al pi halacha, it becomes a matter of what words you use to refer to it, but the milk is the same.

    And the reason that they wouldn’t is exactly this; they have a hashgacha that they presumably pay significant amounts of money to, so they obviously want to get frum customers. They wouldn’t switch the milk because if customers find out and tell the rav hamachshir, they will lose their hashgacha and not be able to cater to the frum community. (In the case of a convenience store who happens to carry cholov yisroel milk, I miiiiight think that it’s at least worth a case by case examination.)

    #1022412
    chevron
    Member

    VM: The store may wash it in the sink with hot water together with the treif keilim.

    According to the poskim that hold CY is a din, cholov stam is treif.

    #1022413
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    VM;

    1) As I previously mentioned, it depends on how the dishwasher works. If the soap is released after the hot water with treif food floating in it touched the dishes, it treifs up the dishes. I was told this regarding home dishwashers.

    2) Correct, I was illustrating, by example, that it’s likely to be switched. It wasn’t a raya. Understand, though, that the normal rule of “achzukei issur lo mechzkinan” (we don’t assume issur) was suspended for milk (the gezeirah of cholov aku”m), so once the seal is broken, and the milk is unsupervised, it no longer has the status of cholov Yisroel.

    2a) That is incorrect. Many poskim do not hold of the heterim of R’ Moshe, the Pri Chodosh, etc. According to these poskim, unsupervised (by a Yid) milk is completely assur (mid’rabbanon). Many people follow these shittos.

    There is also an opinion among some rabbonim (the Nirbater Rov is on record, and I spoke to a prominent Litvishe posek who concurs) that R’ Moshe’s heter no longer applies because of some technicalities in the way the distribution of milk has changed. Rav Belsky disagrees, and I’ve heard that R’ Dovid Feinstein holds that his father’s heter still applies.

    The point I’m making is that there are a couple of legitimate halachic angles to say that unsupervised milk in America today is absolutely assur, so it’s not semantics to differentiate between keeping C.Y. as din or chumra (I personally keep it as chumra, but since I’ve heard that the modern applicability of the heter is questioned, I am more machmir than previously).

    #1022414
    rebdoniel
    Member

    With milk, there is the issue of whether procedures performed on the cow’s stomach renders the milk treif, totally independent of the cholov yisroel issue.

    For this reason, HaRav HaGaon HaGadol Hershel Schachter, shlita, doesn’t drink any milk.

    #1022415
    sydeals
    Member

    Veltz Meshugener

    Let me preface this with: My understanding is less than nothing about this or any Halachic topic.This is not the forum for final Halacha, our Rabbis are the ones to ask, I just want help to understand this until I ask my Rabbi. Please don’t infer anything from what I post either way. (or from anyone else here who is not your Rabbi)

    That said, Isn’t The very reason for the Heter of Cholov Stam in America because the goy would be scared to loose his business if caught switching cows milk with non kosher milk ?

    If yes then it would seem the reason for the Heter ( This incentive ) is no longer applicable with DD, as they where caught switching and there was no consequence, In addition now that they saw they can switch (in their mind) “the more kosher milk” with “the less kosher milk” they may feel no problem with switching an ingredient if need be ( like pig fat or lard for kosher oil etc )

    IMHO today where you can buy CY milk almost anywhere in America why take a chance with one who has been caught not being truthful ? If you say you ( like me ) know nothing , perhaps its better not to post kulos that you don’t know so much about ( like me ) unless you do and have semicha on a public forum……So as not to run into the problem of Lifney Iver

    In short always ask you Local Orthodox Rabbi for the Halacha in this or any case.

    Respectfully

    #1022416
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    For this reason, HaRav HaGaon HaGadol Hershel Schachter, shlita, doesn’t drink any milk.

    If that were the reason, he would drink cholov Yisroel, as those companies, I am told, don’t use milk from these cows.

    In fact, he holds, if I a not mistaken, that even without this procedure, most cows are treifos.

    #1022417
    old man
    Participant

    Rab Doniel,

    Minor point.

    …procedures performed on the cow’s stomach renders the milk treif…

    My understanding was that the cow is rendered treif, not the milk per se. The milk inside the cow is then treif because the cow is treif.

    #1022418
    N.G
    Member

    DD uses a Kali to make the coffee. Doesn’t the kali need to be taval?

    #1022419

    I think that you have to tovel a keli if you buy it from a non-jew but non-jews can have non toiveled kailim.

    Also, even if you did have to, would it make the food non kosher?

    #1022420
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    VM,

    Correct on both. A goy has no chiyuv to toivel his keilim, and a Yid may borrow them, aside frm blios issues.

    If food was prepared in keilim which require but did not undergo tevila, the food may be eaten.

    #1022421
    Health
    Participant

    PBA -“Who am I say you shouldn’t be machmir? When a kashrus agency under highly suspicious conditions proclaims you should be machmir on something with absolutely no basis for the chumrah–I can say you don’t have to be.”

    Excuse me. It isn’t only one. Star-K concurs. I know R. H from Star-k and he isn’t a Machmir, probably more of a Maikil, and yet he says he should be Machmir L’chatchilla, just Not B’dieved. So I still think it’s a Chutzpa for you to say publically Not to listen to these Kashrus agencies. If you think their P’sak is wrong -you could call them up and discuss it with them.

    Or alternately you could have said here in the CR -“So and So Mainstream Poisek says “Mutter L’chatchilla.” Instead of “So and so”, you’d have his real name.

    #1022422
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    I was in the car with him, and he stopped for a vanilla soy latte. I commented that he must not agree with the cRc, and he concurred, and then we made fun of them for a few minutes.

    I don’t think it’s appropriate to post personal conversations like that on the internet. If he wants to make a public statement, he will.

    In any event, since this is not a matter which is relevant to the cRc’s or StarK’s expertise, I don’t think I really should care what they think. If my rav wants to overrule the gedolei haposkim and say to be machmir on issur that is battul, b’dieved, then he will say so. Until then, I respectfully will continue to just follow the shulchan aruch, rema, shach, taz.

    #1022423
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    And the star k has never weighed in on it. They say:

    “While leniencies exist to allow the coffee in spite of the clean-up issues, Rabbi Moshe Heinemann, shlita, Rabbinic Administrator of the Star-K, has decided against using them.”

    That’s about the same as saying, “while tomatoes are muttar, Rabbi Heinemann does not like eating them.” If they wish to impose chumras over what is mandated by halacha, they ought to explicate what the parameters of that chumra is, and why. Then we can all ask our rav.

    I don’t see why the kashrus orgs think it is their jurisdiction to be setting chumrah policy for all of us. Let us each ask our own rav. Their jurisdiction is their expertise in food production.

    #1022424
    Health
    Participant

    PBA -But the fact is you came here telling others Not to listen to these Kashrus agencies -this you had No right to do. If you have your Rov that told you something in private -then fine, for yourself. But this doesn’t give you the right to say My Rov/Poisek argues with these orgs., but I can’t say his name. Without his name people either have to ask their LOR or be Somieach on these Kashrus agencies, no matter how much you claim they are wrong!

    #1022425
    Health
    Participant

    PBA -“I don’t see why the kashrus orgs think it is their jurisdiction to be setting chumrah policy for all of us. Let us each ask our own rav. Their jurisdiction is their expertise in food production.”

    This simply is Not true. They deal with all aspects of Kosher and that’s why they have lists on this & that.

    #1022426
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Or, or, or, they can be someich on the halacha pesuka of thousands of years, and assume that nothing in the halacha has changed until their rav tells them it has.

    Essentially, what happened here is that cRc got up and said, “we have a new chumrah, it is against the halacha pesuka, but we think it is appropriate.” Well, that is nice, but I don’t see why anyone in the world should care what they say unless their own rav made the same pronouncement.

    The stam is that we follow halacha. I don’t need to ask a rav every time some other rav announces a new chumrah on top of the halacha.

    #1022427

    I can’t believe that we’ve gotten this far without anyone mentioning the conflict of interest that the Kashrus agencies have. They benefit from being asked to give hechsherim. Starbucks has not asked them for a hechsher (and there are various urban legends about this). How can you then trust them when they recommend that you not drink there? In such a case, it makes a lot of sense to evaluate their arguments but not to accept their specific psak – especially when their psak is so much stricter than their strongest arguments would indicate.

    #1022428
    Health
    Participant

    PBA -“Or, or, or, they can be someich on the halacha pesuka of thousands of years, and assume that nothing in the halacha has changed until their rav tells them it has.”

    And who are you to say this is against Halacha Pesuka?

    “Essentially, what happened here is that cRc got up and said, “we have a new chumrah, it is against the halacha pesuka, but we think it is appropriate.” Well, that is nice, but I don’t see why anyone in the world should care what they say unless their own rav made the same pronouncement.

    The stam is that we follow halacha. I don’t need to ask a rav every time some other rav announces a new chumrah on top of the halacha.”

    Well that’s Not what happenned here! They said they found out about the Metzious in Starbucks and they said the Halacha is in such a case is to be Machmir L’chatchilla.

    You changed their words -so you can be right. If you have Kashas on their Psak and you don’t think this is based on Halacha -why don’t you discuss it with them? No Anon. person has the right to publically argue with Known experts in the Kashrus field.

    And Aveira Gorres Aveira -the next poster with his conspiracy theory decided that Kashrus agencies are just out for a buck, but aren’t really Paskening Halacha!

    #1022429
    verapoi yerapei
    Participant

    the Star K has a list on their website of what can be bought in a Starbucks that sells treif food. a big factor is if you are away from home or not. if you aren’t then the coffee would have to be an espresso or americano. if you are away from home, they say you can have a regular coffee and lattes and cappuccinos if you don’t hold cholov yisrael only. read the article there for an accurate halachic discussion from a reliable source

    #1022430
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Well that’s Not what happenned here! They said they found out about the Metzious in Starbucks and they said the Halacha is in such a case is to be Machmir L’chatchilla.

    Health: that is not what they said. You are distorting the record. They did not say the halacha is to be machmir; I quoted the words from both orgs.

    Or, as they say, kol haposel, b’mumo posel:

    You changed their words -so you can be right.

    #1022431
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    sydeals

    You probably have never seen a Milk farm before. You actually cannot easily mix pigs and cows milk there.

    Nobody milks cows by hand anymore, they heard the cows into a milking barn , attach some apparatus to the utters and some machines milks like 10-15 cows at once. Technically its not Chalov Yisrol or Chalov ASkum, Its Chalov Machine.

    The milking apparatus only fits a cow utter, it doesnt fit a pigs utters (Or any other animal) . Its all automated today

    #1022432
    Health
    Participant

    PBA -“Health: that is not what they said. You are distorting the record. They did not say the halacha is to be machmir;”

    You’re right; they didn’t say it in Hebrew, just in English.

    And here’s the quote that I posted above:

    “While leniencies exist to allow the coffee in spite of the clean-up issues, Rabbi Moshe Heinemann, shlita, Rabbinic Administrator of the Star-K, has decided against using them.”

    This sounds to me like a Psak Din! He admits there are sides to be Maikil, but he PASKENS L’chatchilla you can’t use these Kulas!

    #1022433
    ThePurpleOne
    Member

    daas yochid-

    im just curious who in dd wud refill the cholov yisrael milk container. im sure the non jewish owner (who wud be the one loosing money) does not have time to come every single day to refill the used container. u think the workers r under orders to refill it? def easier for them to operate normally w new containers every day..

    #1022434
    rebdoniel
    Member

    It is illegal to sell treif milk in America, anyways (pig, horse, camel, etc.)

    #1022435
    ThePurpleOne
    Member

    rebdoniel-

    thats the reason for rav moshe feinsteins heter 4 eating cholov stam..

    #1022436
    sydeals
    Member

    If the Heter of Cholov Stam in America is because the goy would be scared to loose his business if caught switching cows milk with non kosher milk…

    Then this incentive is no longer applicable with DD in theory, as they were caught switching and there was no consequence ( true the switching they did was between CY and CS milk and not Cows and pig milk ) , but now that they are willing to in their mind switch “the more kosher milk” with “the less kosher milk” they may feel no problem with switching an “ingredients” if need be like if they run out of cheese etc ( or like pig fat or lard for kosher oil to make donuts etc )

    But all in all it seems some ppl here look for every excuse not to keep a siyag and even try to convince others not to…..perhaps those ppl are at the wrong site. Would you trust your kids to be watched by the goy in DD ? If not why would you trust your neshomoh with eating somewhere where they already got caught trying to fool the yid ?

    I was once told by someone from the KIC (in regards to a restaurant that allegedly got caught switching something and hiding it from the rabbi)…..where there is smoke there is fire. There are so many options for kosher food owned and operated by frum ppl, why are you running to take a chance ?

    zahavasdad you are missing the point, its not about the milk…its about the fact that they would lie and hide when they can like with something other than milk where it would matter more like the examples I gave above ( who is watching them on Saturday ? No mashgiach is coming in on that day )

    #1022437
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    You need to go to a Dairy farm and see how cows are actually milked. You will realize its almost impossible for anyone to mix milks there.

    It isnt like the worker in Dunkin Donuts switching milk containers.

    You must think that a milk maid sits under the cow and milks it, If that was done then it would be possible to mix it up. But thats not how its done.

    You cant lie and hide something, there is no easy way to put anything in it. The Milk is basically unexposed to the air until you pour it out of the Milk Carton. Its all done by machine.

    A Machine Milks the cows, The Milk is put in a large vat where its pasterized and Homegized. The milk is then pumped into a large truck (That looks like an oil truck) and trucked to the packaging factory, The milk is then pumped out of the truck into the packaging machine where the milk is poured into the Milk Cartons,

    #1022438
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Purple, there have been cases where the workers switched things under orders from management. It could happen out of laziness as well, for example, if the C’S milk is closer.

    A couple of years ago, there was a store in which a worker bought treif’e hot dogs because they ran out of the kosher ones.

    #1022439
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    ZD, it is indeed unlikely that milk from any other animal is mixed in. The issue, though, revolves around understanding the nature of the gezeiras Chaza”l, which still applies despite the stated reason no longer applying.

    #1022440
    yehudayona
    Participant

    A few points:

    Sydeals says you can buy Cholov Yisrael virtually anywhere in America. Definitely not true. It’s not available anyplace that’s far from a major center of frumkeit. Try getting CY in North Dakota (other than by going to a dairy farm and watching the milking yourself). This is a problem for Chabad shluchim.

    ZD is correct in saying that it’s simply not practical for a dairy farmer to mix pig’s milk into his cow’s milk. I found an article that says it’s very difficult to milk a pig anyway. In the U.S., there’s no economic incentive to pass off the milk of a beheimah t’mayah as cow’s milk.

    #1022441
    Health
    Participant

    yehudayona – While in Saudi Arabia and other countries they do. I remember reading about this Frum chaplain that almost added the milk -thinking it was Cow’s milk to his coffee. In the nick of time he found out that it’s camel’s milk, but they pass it off as cow’s milk – so the american soldiers will drink it.

    #1022442
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    ZD, it is indeed unlikely that milk from any other animal is mixed in. The issue, though, revolves around understanding the nature of the gezeiras Chaza”l, which still applies despite the stated reason no longer applying.

    People here arent debating if their Rav says the Gezera applies or not, they are giving scare tactics about Dunkin Donuts mixing milk or milking a pig on a dairy farm.

    yehudayona – While in Saudi Arabia and other countries they do. I remember reading about this Frum chaplain that almost added the milk -thinking it was Cow’s milk to his coffee. In the nick of time he found out that it’s camel’s milk, but they pass it off as cow’s milk – so the american soldiers will drink it.

    Thats was Saudi Arabia, not the United States, its not clear to me If you can drink Chalov Stam anywhere else except the US and Canada. I havent even gotten a straight answer about it in Western Europe (England for example)

    #1022443
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    ZD, no they’re not putting in pig’s milk on the farm. I am not nearly as confident that they don’t switch to non CY milk, though.

    #1022444

    Getting back to DD, it’s quite interesting to watch a DD truck unload at a DD store. Check out the cartons of donuts, they all have (I don’t recall which) either an OU or OK hechsher on the carton. Of course, once those cartons are opened and the donuts come in contact with the triefess is the stores, that’s another story.

    I’ve asked to see the syrups used for flavorings, and they all are under OK. When you ask for something like a mocha coffee, they’re combining their regular coffee with a few shots of the syrup (it’s in a large pump bottle).

    Even when I’m in one of the kosher DD’s, I don’t buy the donuts. Not because of kashrus, but I just don’t care for donuts. But I’m comfortable based upon opinions of the major kashrus agencies that the coffee is not an issue in DD. Again, USA milk comes from cows. However, I was very surprised to see, during a stopover in Europe enroute to Israel, many “frum looking” people having not only coffees in the airports, but things like lattes with whipped cream. Didn’t they realize that the USA doesn’t oversee milk in other countries?

    #1022445
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    ZD, no they’re not putting in pig’s milk on the farm. I am no nearly as confident that they don’t switch to non CY milk, though.

    Chalav Stam is not trief like Pigs Milk

    BTW I think on of the reasons regular Milk is ok, is because its not Chalav Akum, but rather Chalov Machine.

    I dont think even in Chalav Yisroel does a jew milk the cow, Its probably the same machine in the same dairy farm (Likely a special run where someone just watches the process)

    #1022446
    Ðash®
    Participant

    I dont think even in Chalav Yisroel does a jew milk the cow, Its probably the same machine in the same dairy farm (Likely a special run where someone just watches the process)

    It costs too much to change over from non-CY to CY and CY is made daily. Instead usually the entire farm is CY.

    Basicly the difference is that for CY milk, the mashgiach inspects and seals the tankers.

    #1022447
    apushatayid
    Participant

    “While in Saudi Arabia and other countries they do.”

    Rav Moshe issued his psak for the USA, not Saudi Arabia.

    Why are people putting all DD into the same basket. DD is a franchise operation. A DD on one block and the DD on the very next block might be owned by two different people, one who misleads people and one who does not. Is there a din “chalav shnisalem min ha’ayin” that one must suspect a switcheroo where there is no reason to believe so? Is it a matter of practice that the coffee pot is washed in the same sink as the dishes the bacon strips were served on, or cooked in? Is this a practice followed in every DD? I know for a fact that this is not the practice at the DD in my neighborhood. When I worked in kashrus, I came across many establishments (usually hotels) that did not wash their coffee pots, or the parts from the machines that brewed the coffee in the same sinks as the other dirty dishes for various reasons (one place washed these pots with the drinking glasses only). If you really want DD and want to be certain about the kashrus of the coffee and everything else in the cup as well, invest $10 on a 4 cup percolator, buy a bag of DD coffee (many flavors have a hechsher), buy whatever milk you normally do, buy any and all flavorings that have a hechsher you are confortable with and enjoy your coffee. Unless you are a rav or a neighborhood posek though, dont go assuring every neighborhood establishment that sells coffee.

    #1022448
    apushatayid
    Participant

    “Basicly the difference is that for CY milk, the mashgiach inspects and seals the tankers.”

    You sure? How can the mashgiach be sure that what is in the tanker is milk of a cow and not from a horse, or even a goat? How does he know it isnt cloudy water or even soy milk? Surely there is more than just inspecting and sealing a tanker.

    #1022449
    apushatayid
    Participant

    “which still applies despite the stated reason no longer applying.”

    The way it was explained to me, Rav moshe Z’l never said the reason for the gezeira does not apply, rather, the government rules, laws and oversight satisfies the requirement of chazal.

    #1022450
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    I found an article that says it’s very difficult to milk a pig anyway. In the U.S., there’s no economic incentive to pass off the milk of a beheimah t’mayah as cow’s milk.

    There are beheimos temeios other than pigs.

    Whether there needs to be financial incentive for the gezeirah to apply is part of the machlokes.

    #1022451
    Ðash®
    Participant

    You sure? How can the mashgiach be sure that what is in the tanker is milk of a cow and not from a horse, or even a goat? How does he know it isnt cloudy water or even soy milk? Surely there is more than just inspecting and sealing a tanker.

    I mistakenly formatted my previous post as two paragraphs, it should be one paragraph.

    Mods: can you fix post 441681?

    #1022452
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Chalav Stam is not trief like Pigs Milk

    That’s true. Chalav stam is a machlokes, and at worst is an issur d’rabbonon. Pig’s milk is an issur d’Oraisa.

    BTW I think on of the reasons regular Milk is ok, is because its not Chalav Akum, but rather Chalov Machine.

    I dont think even in Chalav Yisroel does a jew milk the cow, Its probably the same machine in the same dairy farm (Likely a special run where someone just watches the process).

    The issur has nothing to do with who does the milking, as long as there’s no supervision, it’s assur (aside from the heterim which may apply in our times in the U.S.)

    #1022453
    Health
    Participant

    ZD -“Thats was Saudi Arabia, not the United States, its not clear to me If you can drink Chalov Stam anywhere else except the US and Canada. I havent even gotten a straight answer about it in Western Europe (England for example)”

    apushatayid -“Rav Moshe issued his psak for the USA, not Saudi Arabia.”

    That WAS my point! Thanks for reiterating it again & again.

    #1022454
    Health
    Participant

    A Woman Outside Brooklyn -“Of course, once those cartons are opened and the donuts come in contact with the triefess is the stores, that’s another story.”

    apushatayid -“If you really want DD and want to be certain about the kashrus of the coffee and everything else in the cup as well, invest $10 on a 4 cup percolator, buy a bag of DD coffee (many flavors have a hechsher), buy whatever milk you normally do, buy any and all flavorings that have a hechsher you are confortable with and enjoy your coffee.”

    Or the easiest way to buy stuff in DD’s is to stick with the ones with Hechsheirim. Nowadays they have these all over the place. Brooklyn, Teaneck, Highland Park, Lakewood & Balto. are the ones I know about. I’m sure there are many more places too.

    #1022455
    Health
    Participant

    DY -“The issur has nothing to do with who does the milking, as long as there’s no supervision, it’s assur (aside from the heterim which may apply in our times in the U.S.)”

    To say in general it’s Assur, no matter what, Is Not true.

    Many Achronim are Matter things like cheese, butter, etc.

    Some say this applies to powdered milk also, like in the Dunkin Donuts. So acc. to you if it was Assur all the time, except for the US, how could they Matter these things?

    So you see that Shittos held that CY was Not as Chomer as you’re saying!

    #1022456
    sw33t
    Member

    Health said:

    “Or the easiest way to buy stuff in DD’s is to stick with the ones with Hechsheirim. Nowadays they have these all over the place. Brooklyn, Teaneck, Highland Park, Lakewood & Balto. are the ones I know about. I’m sure there are many more places too. “

    I just have to LOL at that…

    “all over the place”

    #1022457
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Health, I don’t know what I wrote that made you think I was saying that the gezeirah applies to all milk products according to all shittos, but I didn’t mean that.

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