February 16, 2009 12:47 am at 12:47 am #589405
I’m moving back from Eretz Yisrael and I’m trying to figure out where to live. I would like feedback about the pros and cons of living in Flatbush/NY vs. Out of Town. More specifically, I would like to focus on personality types and ramifications thereof in those places. Included in that, I would also like to know about the Chinuch mehalech and peer pressures. Please be descriptive. Thanks.February 16, 2009 5:06 pm at 5:06 pm #667310
I wish you much hatzlachah wherever you live. I’ll just gently remind you that if you have left Eretz Yisrael, you are already Out Of Town.February 16, 2009 5:33 pm at 5:33 pm #667311
Nesher, it’s tough answering this question without being subjective and judgmental. I guess the best way to answer it is, what are YOU like, are you an “in-town” personality or an “out-of-town” personality? What are your personal hashkafos and beliefs? Based on your answer, it will be easier to target a community that you would be comfortable with.February 16, 2009 5:46 pm at 5:46 pm #667312
There are many benefits to living out of town as well as in town…
(dont stone me for saying there are benefits to living out of town!!)
Questions to ask yourself (this can limit the locations):
1)how big of a community do you need/want?
2)Do you need restaurants, pizza stores and only-kosher stores? if so, how many do you need?
3) Do you mind not knowing your neighbors? Are you the type to want to know a large portion of those who live around you?
4)Do you want east coast, West Coast, or somewhere in-between? (I assume in USA)
5) Are you origionaly from NY? (I only ask because your title is “in town vs out of town” rather than “NY vs elsewhere…) Do you want to live there or not?
6)How many choices of day schools and high schools do you want? LA has several, Chicago has some, NY has so many that it can be confusing…
7) What type of profession/job do you/your spouse have? teaching? Then you would need many choices of schools. Law? make sure that he/she can pass the bar exam that applies to that area. (Many states use the same or similar tests while others are very different)
8)Special Needs? Medical needs? Make sure there are sufficient resources.
9)What “type” are you? (I hate “typing” people but here it can be important and overlooked) Chasidish? Chabad? Yeshivish? Sephardic? MO? That may limit your choices to communities that have larger populations of these types…
These are a few questions that may lead you to a closer answer. Hatzlacha!February 16, 2009 5:51 pm at 5:51 pm #667313
I just want to warn people to watch their Lashan hara in this room as some people, when being descriptive of a specific community, sect or area, can write Lashan Hara, and Lashan Hara about an entire city is an Aveira that is too big to comprehend…February 16, 2009 6:03 pm at 6:03 pm #667314
the chinuch and peer pressure will be a greater concern out of town bec there arent as many schools to choose from if you are in brooklyn you have more of an option and can pick a school that caters to your mehalech and if u dont like it u could always switch if you move OOT you are stuck with the 1 or 2 schools thereFebruary 16, 2009 6:17 pm at 6:17 pm #667315
Are you coming with a family? What are your out of town options? Are you looking for a kollel or do you have any sort of professional training? If the latter, what’s the job market for your training/skills?
I probably won’t be of much help, but answers to these questions will help those who will.February 16, 2009 7:33 pm at 7:33 pm #667316
coke not pepsi- it depends on which out of town community one goes to. Some have many different schools, some only have one. Having visited and lived in a few, I think I know that each community is very different and should not be lumped in with other “out of town” areas. There are some with 6, 7, 8 or even more, elementary schools, each on their own level and for a different crowd. Please do not say that “chinuch and peer pressure will be a greater concern out of town” as each area is sooo different. I know of areas where there is only one school, but there are others which have many more. Some are commutable to other areas. I know someone who drove in to another area for a more suitable school, but they had the community that they liked. It all depends on what you define as a priority and what type you are. Some people will only be comfortable where they have 40 schools to choose from, while others will find what they are looking for in 10. There is peer pressure in NY too. Dont fool anyone- there can be more in NY than in other areas!February 16, 2009 8:13 pm at 8:13 pm #667317
of course there is peer pressure in n.y. but to an extent u can (somewhat) control what type type of environment they are in(at least when they are little)if u pick the school and go check it out and see what the mentalities of the parent body isFebruary 16, 2009 8:29 pm at 8:29 pm #667318
i think there is peer pressure no matter where u live. i come from a small town and there was always peer pressure there amongst us.February 16, 2009 8:38 pm at 8:38 pm #667319
There is totally peer pressure no matter where you live. I don’t think though that living-out-of town has so much peer pressure, I’ve lived out of town most of my life. If anything I think that living-in-town has more peer pressure.February 16, 2009 9:13 pm at 9:13 pm #667320
that could be why e/o says out of town people are always nicer bec there’s not so much peer presume….there is peer pressure in both but maybe oot e/o excepts u for who u areFebruary 16, 2009 9:16 pm at 9:16 pm #667321
Peer pressure exists wherever one may live. It just may concern different things: fashion, hobbies, choices of entertainment, “wants and desires”, habits ect.
I have lived in small areas and larger cities, been to many different cities including NY, and have gone to camp and met all types. So I think I can back up what I say with experience. If it is a new community, with few choices in schools and shuls, I have found that there is less peer pressure than in larger areas. Children learn to get along with others, even if they aren’t exactly the same. There is no pressure to buy the latest X or this toy or that brand Y. If the other child will not play with your child because they do not own this, then the other child will not have a playmate and will change. In town, when children have more choices for friendships, they can be pickier and then the pressure starts.February 16, 2009 9:28 pm at 9:28 pm #667322
coke-now i know y ur one of the nicest ppl around.lolFebruary 16, 2009 9:29 pm at 9:29 pm #667323
Nesher, firstly, good luck with your move back from e”y! after spending a whole yr there in sem i cant wait to get married and go back! it’s prob so hard to leave! next, good luck with your choice regarding where to settle! i wish i (or anyone else here) can just make the decision for you, because i know how hard decision making is, but it is something that you have to do all on your own, taking in to consideration all your personal needs, for you and your family! keep in mind conveniance, family (if you want to be near parents, siblings etc.) schools, etc! and know that the place you end up settling isnt the most important, it is the attitude you go with! and a community isnt permenant, you can always pick up and move! b’hatzlacha! keep us posted!February 16, 2009 9:34 pm at 9:34 pm #667324
music- what r u saying?February 16, 2009 11:03 pm at 11:03 pm #667325
gota go with flatbush.February 16, 2009 11:44 pm at 11:44 pm #667326
Thank you all for your detailed replies, I have to say that I’m a little overwhelmed with the response. Truth be told, I am not married, although I realize that it can be inferred from my original post that I am. I am finishing up Yeshiva, and starting to date soon, be’ezras Hashem, and I want to get a clear picture of where to live so that I can present myself properly. I have lived almost exclusively ‘Out-of-Town,’ but I am open to the idea of living ‘In-Town.’ If you could provide me with clearer pros and cons, especially regarding raising children and the peer pressure, and also in regard to jobs, etc. I am specifically looking into Architectural Engineering, but I may want to learn in Kollel for the first few years…. Again, please be descriptive and thanks for all the repsonses.February 17, 2009 12:25 am at 12:25 am #667327
The Big OneParticipant
Also keep in mind that New York is the biggest Makom Torah and Chesed in all of Chutz L’Aretz! And you live in a city with many Gedolei Yisroel and Rabbonim Shlita (gezunt un shtark, ad meah v’esrim shona), as well as the access to them that is commiserate with it!February 17, 2009 12:44 am at 12:44 am #667328
Maybe you should look into places you can get an education and be in kollel… maybe do a google of “architectural engineering”+schools and see what pops up. see what cities and then see if you can find a kollel nearby…February 17, 2009 7:14 am at 7:14 am #667329
nesher: 1)if you’re gonna stay in the coffeeroom, then i’d say flatbush, i’m kidding.$
2) you do know that architectural school is about 7 years, rite??$February 17, 2009 1:34 pm at 1:34 pm #667330
I think you have to present yourself as honestly as possible. That you’re open to possibilities because you don’t know where life will take you – where you will be able to find a kollel, get schooling at the same time, where your kallah might need to be to finish her schooling or to get/keep a job, etc. Explore it more with the girl herself.February 17, 2009 2:39 pm at 2:39 pm #667331
Flatbush is Safek OOT. Boro Park, now thats in Town 🙂February 17, 2009 3:31 pm at 3:31 pm #667332
The Big One:
How about Lakewood Ir HaTorah?February 17, 2009 4:21 pm at 4:21 pm #667333
Out of town is the best! you actually know your neighbors and the guy around the corner! You can get all the benefits of in town in a smaller community- you just have to know where to look!
qwerty- are you telling me that I have to leave now? I will really miss you…February 17, 2009 5:38 pm at 5:38 pm #667334
You can’t be in Lakewood and go to college.February 17, 2009 7:07 pm at 7:07 pm #667335
Nesher20: being a faltbusher-i gatta say flatbush is awesome!!! but what abt waterberry or some place like that-not just lakewood???!!!February 17, 2009 7:14 pm at 7:14 pm #667336
If you are looking to start dating soon, I would stick to the NY/NJ area (or within a decent driving distance). The largest percentage of single Jewish women is in this area and you will be frequently driving up.
If you want to avoid NY, you may want to try Baltimore. I know a lot of people like Ner Yisroel and Baltimore has a sizeable Jewish population. Also, there are plenty of good colleges in the Baltimore/Silver Spring area.
Good luck!February 18, 2009 12:47 am at 12:47 am #667337
GAW, New York is by far the biggest with mekomos Torah and Chesed as well as Gedolim and Rabbonim. You can hardly walk a block in Flatbush, Boro Park, Williamsburg, Crown Heights, etc. without at least one Bais Medrash, Yeshiva, Beis Hakenesses, shteeble, Chesed organization, etc. Lakewood is next.
In-Town refers to New York City. All of Brooklyn is a vadai. The other boroughs its possible for someone to argue against, but its a shvach case.February 18, 2009 12:50 am at 12:50 am #667338
Jothar: did u mean u can’t be in bmg and go to college or u can’t LIVE in lakweood and go to college?February 18, 2009 1:18 am at 1:18 am #667339
For dating, your best bet is going to be in brooklyn unless you luv the travelling but on the other side oot kollels usually pay more.
Ur choice of colleges in brooklyn are prbly better too.
I’m with brooklynFebruary 18, 2009 2:10 am at 2:10 am #667340
havesomeseichel: no, i’m not from flatbush either.$February 18, 2009 2:33 am at 2:33 am #667341
qwertyuiop: what you sayin you not in flatbush????????????????????????February 18, 2009 3:07 am at 3:07 am #667342
asdfghjkl, did qwertyuiop change his story about where he is from (like someone else I know in the CR once did…)?February 18, 2009 3:57 am at 3:57 am #667345
qwerty… to be part of the chashuv Out of town- it takes more then just not being in flatbush. boro park, monsey, queens (did i miss one? I am not from NY…) ect do NOT count!! It takes more then just not being a flatbusher. It is also a mindset…thats what makes it so impressive! Imagine- living without a pizza store in close proximity? and not complaining? I have lived in a place like that once… there were no restaurants there for a while. Being out of town is an experience, one that I wouldnt trade for anything (even not being able to go out for pizza). It helps you realize the important things in life (and learn how to cook at a young age!)February 18, 2009 1:25 pm at 1:25 pm #667346
Which Rov Paskened that all Brooklyn is a Vadai? 🙂
Was he Cholek for Brownsville, Bushwick, Seagate & Greenpoint?
If in town is NYC, how about Monsey? Passaic? Five Towns? Lakewood?
If you live in Boro Park, everything outside of it is OOT.
Also, if NY is so chashuv, why aren’t the young Kollel couples moving in? Why to the bochrim who are going out in America have to go to Lakewood & not somewhere in Brooklyn?February 18, 2009 7:23 pm at 7:23 pm #667347
so qwerty- if you are not from flatbush, how dare you say, “if you’re gonna stay in the coffeeroom, then i’d say flatbush”… i guess we both have to leave now….unless someone knows of a place in flatbush that I can move to… but why would I want to move to flatbush???February 18, 2009 7:48 pm at 7:48 pm #667348
GAW, “Also, if NY is so chashuv, why aren’t the young Kollel couples moving in? Why to the bochrim who are going out in America have to go to Lakewood & not somewhere in Brooklyn?”
Prbly cuz they are learning in lakewood or lakewood is cheaperFebruary 18, 2009 8:01 pm at 8:01 pm #667349
nesher Isn’t a given to go to lakewood after your wedding?! Lol That’s what most ppl think. Glad most ppl here seem open for suggestions and are not the one track minded BMG style. Keep one point in mind.make sure the place you go to is a growing and budding place.Take For instance monsey borough park and lakewood.All of the above you’ll find new schools opening every year as well as new stores grocery’s etc… which keeps competition going and makes your selection range wider.If a school closes it means a new one will open… There are neighborhoods that are at they’re ending period where when a grocery closes it means one store less.Such a place could eventually be a problem to live in as it might become less yiddish or it will become one sort of crowd which will take away your selection.Either way good luck!February 18, 2009 9:16 pm at 9:16 pm #667350
qwerty lives in manhattan
Nesher- how soon will you be moving? I have a shidduch for you- her name is ‘striving’ 😉
see topic: kollel life vs. “reality”, for her resume
who agrees with me that this is a really good match??February 18, 2009 9:29 pm at 9:29 pm #667351
That is part of the question. Why would bochrim want to learn in Lakewood when they have Brooklyn?
The answer (I think) is there is a strong plus about living in a makom that is Kulo Torah, and New York with all its “externals” (for lack of a better term) can not hold a candle to that.
William: If I’m wrong, please correct me.February 18, 2009 9:48 pm at 9:48 pm #667352
Rosh Yeshiva- there are some communities that are growing and building new schools that are not in the state of NY or NJ!! Be open minded about places to move to…
Nesher- maybe ask about a specific neighborhood and we can tell you what type of schools, shuls, stores, kollels, ect exist there. since qwerty isnt from flatbush he can tell us about where he is from and the community there! I heard Atlanta is growing, but maybe isnt good for singles… but there is dallas, chicago,la, detroit, cleveland, and so many other communities that people dont think of right away or may not know how big each area is!February 18, 2009 10:34 pm at 10:34 pm #667353
everybody: keep guessing where i live, it’s fun but i won’t tell you, another mystery to figure out…$February 19, 2009 12:25 am at 12:25 am #667354
We don’t know you everybody is different they fit better in different placesFebruary 19, 2009 12:46 am at 12:46 am #667355
LOL areivim, go practice your profession…
Didn’t I read somewhere that qwerty is on the same side of the ocean as noitall?February 19, 2009 12:46 am at 12:46 am #667356
The Big OneParticipant
gavra, I never heard anyone refer to any part of Brooklyn (if not all of NYC) as anything other than in-town.
A Godol once told me that he thinks the reason New York is the biggest Makom Torah in c’l, is because the Yidden of York (England) were moser nefesh their lives al pi Kiddush Hashem, when the goyim wanted to force them to convert.
Some Yungerleit move elsewhere because of the cost of living in NY or for other personal reasons. But I would venture to say, more people from OOT move into NYC (Yeshiva, Shidduchim, Business, etc) than the otherway. I’ve met so many former out of towners now living in Flatbus (as well as other parts of Brooklyn and the City), that I couldn’t begin to count ’em.February 19, 2009 5:11 am at 5:11 am #667357
Havesome… I’m sorry you misunderstood me.I stated these places as examples of growing communities i’m sure there are many more out there.But i do think it’s important to pick a place on the rise.February 19, 2009 5:58 am at 5:58 am #667358
areivimzehlazeh: i agree, great match!!!
qwertyuiop: you………actually i’m holding myself back……….February 19, 2009 10:09 pm at 10:09 pm #667359
allow me to clarify how I came to the conclusion that qwerty lives in mnhtn. If you recall, qwerty & beacon commented on new year’s eve re: the noise level outside and I think it was asdf that said: hey, you live in mnhtn?
plus- the whole thing that qwerty is on the other side of the Atlantic only sprouted because the European keyboard has ‘z’ in place of the ‘y’- which makes his sn ‘qwertz’. This was used to prove that he does NOT live in Europe (being that his sn is qwerty & not qwertz)
if you got my cheshbon, good. if not, pls don’t ask me to explain 🙂February 20, 2009 3:00 am at 3:00 am #667360
areivim: please explain.$ 🙂
and the noise was not only in manhattan, because beacon, and brooklyn19, both live in flatbush, so areivim keep guessing!$
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