Giyur and today's daf

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  • #614074
    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    Why do we accept any Geirim in Israel today? It should be similar to the times of David and Shlomo where Geirim were not accepted due to the benefits that they gain.

    #1038259
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    gaw,

    1) we’re in galus

    2) a lot of anti-semitism

    3) a lot of anti-israel bias

    should i name more

    #1038260
    dafyomi2711
    Member

    We do not paskin like that man daamar rather we paskin kulum gereim!

    #1038261
    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    We do not paskin like that man daamar rather we paskin kulum gereim!

    Sure, B’dieved, if you weren’t Bodek. But we do see that we do not allow Geirm to get the benefits of their Geirus, if there is a Chashash that is their purpose. In EY or one who wants to move to EY (As opposed to CA’s good point), where there are significant benefits to being “Jewish”, why is this not taken into account.

    Which brings me to the Giyur bill. This bill, even if it does create people who are halachicly Geirim (which may be questioned), is an unqualified bad idea. It does however solve a rooted problem in Israel, that people want to get married and can’t because one party is not Jewish (or Muslim or Christian), so they get married in Cyprus or not at all.

    I believe the counter-proposal should be that instead of solving the problem by creating questionable geirim, allow people who want a “civil union” to go ahead and do so outside of the religious requirements.

    Thoughts?

    #1038262
    rabbiofberlin
    Participant

    Gavra at work: You must have stopped learning the daf halfway through. As ‘dafyomi2711’ says-we pasken that ALL geirim ,regardless of their motivation, are geirim if they go throught the conversion process. See the gemoro!

    #1038263
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Where does it say that David and Shlomo did not allow Gerim?

    David was the Great-Grandson of Ruth

    and Shlomo Married Bas Parah, Queen of Sheba and Naama

    All were converts

    #1038264
    charliehall
    Participant

    I actually asked the magid shiur about Bat Paro and he said that we would get to her later. Stay tuned.

    #1038265
    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    ROB, ZD see my next post. You are of the ones who I hoped would have some good thoughts about the question.

    #1038266
    rabbiofberlin
    Participant

    gavra at work: where do yo usee from the gemoro that the geirim the gemoro mentions did not get the “benefits” of geirus, as you claim?

    As far as the giyur bill- in essence, it goes back to what was always the custom: every Rov made a decision for his own community how to respond to applicants for geirus. I think it is not a good idea to have a uniform standard- life is too complicated to have “one size fits all”. That said, I think the details are important and it seems that there are various thought on this. I cannot properly jduge until one sees the actual bill.

    #1038267
    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    ROB – That Lechatchilah, one may not marry their beau if they were Megayer (e.g. Ivanka Trump). That is the Mishnah.

    As for the bill, the sponsor (Stern) says the reason for the bill is to allow people to get (inter)married and avoid the “humiliation” of not being a Halachic Jew, not to allow for each qualified Rov to decide who to accept who they believe is qualified and sincere.

    Knesset Committee Discusses Stern’s Giyur Bill

    http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/267787/ministerial-committee-passes-giyur-bill.html

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