Group think

Who was talking about accountability. You totally went off road.

Amazing, now your back on topic. Accountability is part of creation, an action creates something. So yes, accountability is real, BUT THAT WASN’T OUR DISCCUSION. You jump to new ideas when you’re proved wrong and paint a picture that i disagree with them.
Morality is important, but it’s not the purpose, Hashem is the purpose. Morals are not inherently important, it’s importance is because it’s what hashem created to use as a tool to reach the goal. The goal is to become closer to hashem.
You don’t have to be a rocket scientist to understand this.

So the goal is a deeper connection to hashem. If morality is the goal, explain why a connection of any sort is neccasary.

And honestly ashregg after being at the brunt end of extreme moral decay and corruption. So much so it rattled the foundation of who I am, I can tell you we as a community have the wrong focus. Cuz for some people it turns them into altruistic sheep who are too hard on themselves and for others it turns them into abject monsters that have zero humanity. So please…..if our lifestyle was correct how can it turn people into such corrupt monsters….possibly because the focus is _wrong_

I want to address one more thing, cuz we addressed “intention”
The reason why I brought it up because intention is the base knowledge of manipulating energy or “forces” which is a form of “sorcery”
Kabbalah at it’s root is actually a form of sorcery and it’s knowledge stems from sorcery and it’s base is literally rooted in sorcery .
In the Torah it says “do not get involved in soothsayers or sorcery cuz you will be _defiled_ by it”
Defilement meaning a soul depth feeling of corruption. “defilements is experienced as mental obscurations like clouds that distort perception and cause suffering. The primary defilements are greed/ hatred/aversion and delusion/ignorance”
(There’s many ways to define what defiliment can be, but the word defiliment shows that a deep seated affect that gets to the core of the person’s sense of self and experience of life”
Anytime you get involved in energy manipulation it actually opens portals to spiritual forces that are not of God.
Ritualistic living, when connecting to these esoteric forces (our religion is based on the esoteric) actually defiles the soul of the person practicing them because when they connect with the forces that are esoteric in nature they are not connecting to God. At all.
God calls people to be moral. Not just live by rituals alone. The fact that rituals are put on the same waveleghth as morality and is sold as if it is important as morality shows that we are actually placing something we consider important before our connection to Devine source which is actually more important.
If you know anything about cerimonial magic….it’s all about, precise formulas, words, and symbols to invoke and control spirits, seeking rare knowledge or supernatural power.
They sell it as esoteric power or “holiness” but rally Everytime you speak with your words and use your intentions, you are practicing a form of _sorcery_
That’s why our souls are defiled. That’s why our actions sometimes manifest as corruption, that’s why people have internal suffering and disconnect from truth. We are practicing sorcery. Not connecting directly to God.

Bad, manipulative, corrupt, selfish etc people are in every society. When there’s a group that follows an ideology, demoralizing people will use the ideology to manipulate and do bad. There is nothing inherently bad with the ideology or the group. Look at every community and group, there are bad people who use the system. It is normal human reaction that when the favored or people of influence in a system that they follow act evil toward them, they blame the entire ideology and system, but there’s an error in this mindset.
I understand that you went through something, and you witnessed devastating demoralization, but I think you should understand that individuals, even a group of individuals doing evil doesn’t cancel the entire society.

I think it’s a reflection of beliefs…belief that are supposed to lead to better outcomes but for some reason leads to a form of shamelessness, lack of humanity and demoralizing behaviour. Is it the extreme conformity. Is it the extreme materialism. There’s a root cause it’s not just coming out of the blue

And I’m not saying everyone is like this, but those behavours stem from the spirit of the person and if our people are capable of such abject cruelty. There is something wrong with us….sorry to say. I don’t think anyone else is capable of such behavours. And I myself was shocked and blindsighted by it _becuse_ I didn’t know people had it in them to do so. But I guess I’m wrong. And no it’s not coming from anywhere out there cuz nobody acts vicious like that in the real world. Sorry

All religions have issues lol. There’s no religion without issues and that’s where fundamentally disagree with all of them. It’s all dogma. And leads to judgment and leads to shaking the inherint humanity of the person and the klal.
I’m not sure I agree with you if it has nothing to do with belief system lol.
It’s like saying the oceon doesn’t have salt and isn’t dangerous cuz the oceon is just innocent water. Salt and danger is _part_ of the oceon and it’s the reason it’s so caustic. You can’t take people out of their inherint beliefs and say it has nothing to do with beliefs. They are absolutely connected.
If belief system cause inherinit inhumanity, that translates to action. You can’t take belief system out of the klal. It’s a root cause and causes symptoms.

And I don’t know if just “bad apples” I’m not saying everyone is a bad apple God forbid. But the people who _are_ bad are worse then terrible. That means they are not connected to conscience and don’t have that deeply driven moral conscience which means thier souls are _hijacked_ to the point where they are disconnected enough to make horrible choices and walk away like its nothing. There’s an inherint lack of humanity.
I can say materialism with empty rituals has a lot to do with it cuz most of these denigrating people are generally from the class that lives in their ivory towers and have a disconnect to virtue based on being so disconnected from reality, but more then that, an inherint lack of humanity and conscience means the soul is terribly broken and that doesnt just come from basic living….it comes from something much much more damaging, cuz living like a regular person doesn’t make people lose their souls like this. There’s something inherinitly broken within the system that causes this horrid behaviour. .

I can say that I too have done terrible things and had to really take a moral reckoning and find where my actions may have caused others deep hurt and thus caused my own terrible suffering and trust me I found many many times where I thought I was right but only afterwards realized that my actions were a deep lack of humanity, where I was deeply disconnected from conscience, from my inherint essence as a human being. once I fixed those things and made amends. And addressed the root cuase, like separating myself from cerimonial worship and starting to live a true moral life. My life got much much better.
We are built with a conscience….anytime we are capable of making choices disconnected from those natural forces, that means our souls and actions disconnect us from our inherint humanity and we must fix the root cuase in order to complete our souls once again so we can truly be connect back to God and conscience.
Anything that places a block between our inherint humanity disconnects us from source _and_ God.
It can look like virtue but we can be inherintly ripping ourselves away from truth.
That’s why God says “don’t place anything before me”
This not just words these are principles that guide our souls back to reality. Placing _anything_ before god and true virtue ends up darkening reality and takes us away from conscience/ God.
It also says in the garden of Eden do not eat from the tree of knowledge (just had this discussion in another thread) you will die a kind of death) מות תמות means “you will die a kind of death” a part of your essence will die
Tree of knowledge is something to do with “ideology” “knowing things that are disconnected from truth” “traumatic information that is not ours to hold”
Theres so much nuance.
The second you “learn” things that aren’t true from a realistic standpoint it disconnects your mind from heaven, you are a conduit between the connection to heaven and earth. But you cannot operate correctly in life if you do anything that harms that conduit. It creates static in the radio frequency and what happens is the frequency gets blocked, harmed, and broken.
In our desire for superiority we forget the truth, to live in reality as it was designed and created.
I think something inherint in our lifestyle is blocking those frequencies and darkening them.
It seems “holy” but it’s actually subversion of truth
It’s an illusion of control but it’s stems from the snake who says “but you won’t die you’ll be like God knowing good and evil” or “you’ll be holy if you do xyz” or “you’ll be in control of reality and be above it”
You’ll be like God making choices that are above your humanity.
It’s a lie. Self deception

I agree with you a lot and that’s very true. but from my experience with the abject cruelty it seems that something within them is corrupted and I think it’s not just from choosing bad. I’ve met many a people who have done bad things but still remain good and still have a conscience, the lack of extreme disconnect from conscience shows that something in the soul has been corrupted. The core energy has been tainted and I guess we can look at the Torah and see why that happens
For example these are three places where the soul dies:
Or is defiled/tainted/corrupted:
The Torah states that seeking out mediums, spiritists, or wizards will defile a person in vayikra 19:31, which commands, “Do not turn to mediums or seek out spiritists, for you will be defiled by them. I am the LORD your God.”

This warning is reinforced in vayikra 20:6, which declares that anyone who turns to such practitioners to “prostitute themselves” by following them will be cut off from their people. Additionally, devarim 18:10-12 lists divination, sorcery, and consulting mediums and consulting the dead as abominations detestable to the Lord.

There’s alot of things that can potentially fit into these concepts and principles. Including the esoteric things.

“Detestable/obomination” are harsh words. Just food for thought