HELP – How Do I Stop Getting The Piece Of Trash Lehovin Newspaper?

Takes 2-2 Tango:
Once you read it, you’ll realize it’s not trash. Problem solved!

@mentch1 – I’m sorry you misunderstood my intention, and even more sorry if my presentation added to that misunderstanding. I only meant to say that in spite of the Rebbe’s beautifully worded words, the point he made, that it is only a mi’ut of individuals who align themselves with Rav Shmuel ztzvk”l and that these few did so in a very not ba’kavodikeh way and that there is no “chilukei dei’os” in America as far as this goes, there are indeed many, not a few, and they are themselves Gedolei Olam, who disagree with Rav Chaim (Rav Gershon, and lbcl”c) with Rav Aaron Leib ztzvk”l. And they do so with great trepidation.

All I know is as follows: R Shmuel is no longer alive. The primary mesorah has been The Steipler, R Shach, R Elyashiv, R Shlomo Zalman, Reb Aryeh Leib, Reb Chaim etc. This was the primary chain according to everyone up to the Advent of Peleg. R Shmuel was a very big Talmid Chochom but was not considered as primary in this chain. At some point in the last couple of years Peleg took on shitos that were not in sync with the primary mesorah of Gedolei Yisroel of the litvishe world. These group may have been talmidim of R Shmuel, in which case it makes sense that they follow him. Others have joined them, either breaking way from primary mesorah or they already had affiliation with other groups like Satmar and similar shitos. I don’t include Brisk because the brisker ruv always gave honor to the Gedolei Yisroel. It also included those that just want to have fun in the streets. That existed in my day too but at that time it was only Satmat, Toldos Aaron, and Neturei Karta types that they can join. In any case right now R Shmuel is no longer alive. It would make sense that his talmidim will rejoin the mainstream. However Satmar and other groups are thrilled to try to pull these groups closer to their shitos even though that was never R Shmuel’s intention. In any case there is no excuse for the horrible chutzpah against prominent American Roshei Yeshiva, who to the best of my knowledge never clearly supported Peleg anyway. Lehovin should not be allowed into a normal Yeshiva house because they disregard the primary mesorah and spread chutzpah to the mainstream Gedolei Yisroel. I would not let it in my house, I doubt R Shmuel would support it (I’m sure the editors disagree with that statement). I would even rip it up or otherwise destroy it. Bringing it into your house teaches your children and yourself that you don’t have to follow Torah leadership that has been supported and established by the Gedolei Yisroel of the last generation and the vast majority of talidei chachomin, Rabbonim, and the lay people today.

Note that I know I am not privy to every detail but most of this is clear. Even the fact that they felt a need to break out their own media shows that they are a breakoff and not following the mainstream. They have very little leadership and support. They are unfortunately loud due to their nature of protesting in the streets vs staying in the Beis Medrash like the vast majority of bochorim. Note also that many bochorim in the street are just not the biggest learner’s or need a break and are not affiliated with Peleg. It was similar when you only had the Satmar and similar protests years ago. Just now it’s harder to tell them apart. Note also that I gave seen a strong tendency of Peleg supporters attempt to show support from Rabbonim and Roshei Yeshiva without basis.

Bshtei: Rav Aharon Leib zt’l is also no longer with us, just like Rav Shmuel zt’l. Your listing of the “primary mesorah” is very far from universally agreed. Many others would place Rav Shmuel after his father, Rav Shach and Rav Elyashiv. Indeed, Rav Elyashiv himself held shittos in line with Rav Shmuel more than Rav Aharon Leib.

And it isn’t just Brisk and Satmar that holds of the same shittos as Rav Shmuel. It is many of the Litvishe Gedolim in Eretz Yisroel and America, including Rav Malkiel, Rav Ahron Feldman, Rav Ahron Schechter, Rav Yosef Harari-Raful, Rav Yaakov Horowitz (Telz), The Vialipole, Rav Wachtfogel, etc.

And despite your misconception, Klal Yisroel does not use the Yated as a guide to who is correct and consider other media outlets as incorrect.

Joseph, I am not going to get into disagreements with you especially when you clearly have no issues distorting history. I was simply stating basic history that everyone knows to be true. You have followed up with the following distortions that in my eyes simply seem to be inaccurate (hopefully not on purpose). I will not follow up on your rejoinder as I have no interest in the back and forth, but will leave it at pointing out your distortions and let others make decisions as they see fit. 1. It is simply not true that Reb Shmuel was considered at the level of R’ Aharon Leib. 2. Many of the Gedolim I mentioned are not alive. I was pointing out the primary mesorah that took us to to this point. Your pointing out that R’ Aharon Leib is not alive is irrelevant. Was is relevant is that Reb Ahron Leib considered R’ Chaim to the the primary mesorah – you can disagree with this – and I can’t show you a paper that proves it but anybody that watched Gedolim for the last 15 years can attest to this. Any other insinuation is simply a dishonest distortion of history. 3. Your comment throwing out names supposedly supporting R’ Shmuel’s shitos are without merit. For example someone saying that we have act with Derech Eretz to R’ Shmuel does not provide support for his shitos. I also say we have to have derech eretz to R’ Shmuel (of course!) despite pointing out that Gedolei Yirsroel, Rosh Yeshivos, and Talmidei Chachomim from this generation and last unanimously accept R’ Chaim as the leader of this generation (even Rav Schach sent all kinds of questions to R’ Chaim and always wanted his opinions etc so many years ago). So your throwing out names is precisely what I was referring to that those desperate to promote Peleg (maybe because they some from Satmar or other similar backgrounds) are unfortunately willing to throw out names of Rosh Yeshiva that they claim support Peleg – without merit. This is simply dishonest and Klal Yisroel is smarter than that. This is what “single agenda” torah hashkofos lead to – willing to break up Achdus in Klal Yisroel to promote a particular version of anti-zionism. Is this really worth it for you. Is your particular anti-zionism version (and how to handle Zionism) your only interest that you want to promote? Are you willing to take successful united yeshivas and attempt to break them up so that YOUR version of anti-zionism get’s more adherents. What about the damage you cause?

This entire Lehovin was started by Rabbi Kotler, paid for by Rabbi Schecter, and published by Mr London. And everyone know this is all because of Rabbi Ktolers hatred towards Bnei Brak….just check out hi get story. He never got over it. Very very sad, but very very true.

No surprise that Joseph loves this paper. It is 100% neturre karta. The self-hating Jews have now been joined by Chaim Berlin. Anyone surprised? I’m not. The following says it all. This is not lashon hara in any way whatsoever, and in fact according to Shulchan Aruch it should and must be published. I ask the moderators to allow it.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_WC3VtDsRQjc/S39t2Hk55XI/AAAAAAAAD9U/QDRInT08Clk/s1600-h/carlebach12.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_WC3VtDsRQjc/S39tsZ-mPDI/AAAAAAAAD9M/8hyA9lWrHVo/s1600-h/carlebach13.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_WC3VtDsRQjc/S39u-ShrEOI/AAAAAAAAD9k/KNjpsNoHfWY/s1600-h/Carlebach10.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_WC3VtDsRQjc/S39uyd8d8rI/AAAAAAAAD9c/XbY8x2FaX3Q/s1600-h/carlebach11.jpg

It boggels my mind that people on this blog have no problem talking lashon hora on gedolim.
Whether or not you agree with a viewpoint, to say about the lakewood rosh yeshiva that he “hates people” because of a past wrong is unbelievable. (YW also bears responsibility for posting).
Even to assume that you understand the level of torah of these individuals and you can somehow rank them as if they are baseball players is just chutzpah to the max.
You don’t like a mehalich, choose a rebbe with one to your liking.
A word to the wise, Bad mouthing gedolim can have serious consequences to your health.