Hospital on shabbos

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  • #599107
    happiest
    Member

    Hi everyone.

    I have two questions and yes, I will ask my lor but I’m curious to know if anyone has had any experience with this.

    1. If I go to the hospital before shabbos and want to come home once shabbos started (if I am in the er let’s say) how would I go about it? Or is it better to stay in the hospital over shabbos so I am not michalel shabbos?

    2. If I need to go in on shabbos but do not want to call hatzala because the issue is to private then am I allowed to go by cab? And how would I go about paying for it?

    Again, I am going to ask my lor but I am apprehensive about it because I will have to give information that I am not comfortable giving right now.

    Thank you in advance and have a great shabbos!

    #805256
    real-brisker
    Member

    If the issue is an emergency that requires hatzolah, than privacy should not come first. And vice versa too, if the issue does not require hatzolah, than haztolah shouldn’t be used (for sure on shabbos) as a taxi service.

    #805257
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    happiest

    Given you have already posted things about yourself, I am assuming you are refering to such events.

    Are you afraid to call Hatzolah because they will tell the whole neighborhood or are you afraid because all your neighbors will ask ARE YOU OK and WHAT HAPPEND?..Which you are probably not in the mood to answer

    Hatzolah people are not allowed to speak to others about a call, now if you are afraid someone you know will answer, I dont have an answer

    #805258
    Sam2
    Participant

    You can generally trust Hatzolah people to keep secrets, but if it’s Mamash a Pikuach Nefesh issue and a cab or regular ambulance would get you there just as quickly there is no reason not to call a cab. (There is no reason not to call Hatzolah either.)

    If leaving the hospital involves Chillul Shabbos then why would you be allowed to leave?

    #805259
    ZosHaTorah
    Participant

    I once accompanied my LOR to the hospital on Shabbos when he thought he was dying (ended up being dehydration from the flu). After IVs and the such, he was well enough to go home around 5pm. Being summer, Shabbos ended a few hours later, and home was 10+ miles away. We understood that we could get a ride to the hospital for pikuach nefesh, but not home when he was well again.

    In Hashem’s great mercy, he sent us an off-the-derech nurse at the end of the day who suggested to us (without asking) to do another round of IV’s to ensure (his health) we were not kicked out of the hospital before sunset. We made havdalah a few hours later, then calld for a ride.

    #805260

    i dont know the parameters of the Halachah, such as when and to whom it applies, but there is definitely a gezairah the Chochomim made that if a person has to be mechal Shabbos by traveling for a matter of pikuach nefesh he is allowed to come back on Shabbos, for otherwise people might not go in the first place, something along those lines. i know a physician who occassionally has to go to the hospital for emergencies on Shabbos and a major Posek allowed him to return on Shabbos.

    #805261
    apushatayid
    Participant

    whatever the psak. refua shlaima.

    #805262
    Chein
    Member

    Mod 80: I don’t think it is a gezeira per se, but rather the practical realization of contemporary poskim that disallowing a physician or Hatzalah member to return home from the hospital would discourage such people from going in the first place, and thus potentially making them unavailable to save lives.

    #805263
    TweetTweet
    Participant

    If you are in the hospital on shabbos, of course the best thing to do is to stay until after shabbos. While a Hatzalah member is permitted to return because otherwise we are afraid he won’t go to begin with, as 80 said, I think this only applies to the Hatzalah member or a doctor, but not to the patient himself.

    As far as going to the hospital on shabbos, if it is a serious emergency Hatzolah should be called as they are the quickest responders, but if it’s not a life and death thing but you need to go, I think local EMS or a cab may be called. Not sure how to pay a cab though.

    #805264
    Sam2
    Participant

    Absolutely not 80. That Heter is only for someone going to save someone else, not to save himself.

    #805265
    charliehall
    Participant

    If it is a pikuah nefesh issue, don’t call the cab, call hatzalah or 9-1-1!!!

    #805266
    happiest
    Member

    Thanks for answering everyone.

    My dilemma is that I could technically go another day, doesn’t nec have to be shabbos so I’m not sure if I’d be allowed to do this.

    I’m not worried about hatzala telling people. I’m worried about my family finding out. I also do not want to go in an ambulance. I know I’m being picky but I just want to make this very awkward and not pleasant situation as pleasant as possible for me.

    #805267
    Sam2
    Participant

    If you could “technically” go another day without adding any risk to your life, then how would it ever be okay to be Mechalel Shabbos?

    #805268
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    @Sam

    happiest has posted information about herself that I am fairly certainly most would agree its best for her to go to the hospital if she needs too ASAP.

    I think this is an example where a very specific PSAK would be needed.

    #805269
    happiest
    Member

    Cuz it is a life and death situation but it is a life and death situation that I keep pushing off…

    #805270
    aries2756
    Participant

    Happiest, if you are in danger then go NOW and don’t think about it. Call Hatzolah and go, they will give you the support you need. If you are 18 and over they will NOT tell your parents what the issue is if you ask them not to tell. They will tell you what the local Rabbonim paskened on whether you can return on Shabbos or not. In my neighborhood, Hatzolah has an account with a local car service so people can come go home. They give a card to the patients and the hospital calls for them.

    Happiest, please don’t wait till Shabbos begins. Just know although the complications because of chill Shabbos just makes the anxiety worse. If you are not capable of getting the issue under control and feel that you should be in a hospital let Hatzolah take you otherwise you will be sitting in the emergency room forever and a day. Refuah Sheleimah

    #805271
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Hatzala is very good at keeping confidentiality.

    My brother is in Queens Hatzala, and once took his neighbor to the hospital on shabbos. He did not tell his own wife even though she would have gone over to help the guy’s wife. My sister in law found out from someone else after shabbos.

    #805272
    happiest
    Member

    Aries, I’m not in danger as in like going to kill myself right now but I need to go to take care of s/t that is life and death. Complicated… I know.

    Popa- I know hatzala wouldn’t say anything. I know that. But it is a crazy thing and I can’t have ppl in the community knowing and finding out… Its a delicate situation.

    #805273
    am yisrael chai
    Participant

    happiest

    Your health comes before your community finding out.

    Try to keep yourself hydrated in the meantime, if possible.

    #805274
    TweetTweet
    Participant

    just remember–if it’s life and death, or even if it’s doubtful if it’s life and death, you must call on shabbos. You could call 911 if you want.

    #805275
    happiest
    Member

    I took care of it everyone.

    Thanks for all your input and advice!

    #805276
    am yisrael chai
    Participant

    Thanks so much for taking care of it and letting us know!

    That was so kind and thoughtful.

    #805277
    TweetTweet
    Participant

    So glad for you! Thanks for letting us know!

    All the best

    #805278
    MiddlePath
    Participant

    Thanks for letting us know, happiest. I was thinking of you over shabbos.

    #805279
    realmench
    Participant

    Please everybody stop paskening and go ask your dayan

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