How to remain neutral with the boys in college

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  • #758815

    shlishi
    Member

    I tell opposite genders I’m under doctor’s orders not to touch others, when I sense an opposite gender wants to shake my hand or is prepared to stretch out a hand.

    #758816

    jewish unity
    Participant

    shlishi-there’s a couple of problems with that. First of all, it’s lying. That’s not what the Torah wants from us. Second of all, it demonstrates that you’re not strong enough in your yiddishkeit to say straight out “my religion doesn’t permit this” and to be proud and confident of it.

    #758817

    good.jew
    Member

    Not to start a whole discussion (which i am sure Popa can locate in CCH), but youmay want to ask a rav about the handshaking. It is not so simple that is is not allowed. In any event, people end up seeing through lies, and then you look bad.

    #758818

    yacr85
    Participant

    Wow, the Rambam says “Tarich Le’hisrachek, Me’od Me’od min hanashim”!

    That means stay (1)VERY (2)VERY (3)Far away from women!

    Now you have to find a way around this Halacha

    #758819

    There’s a huge misconception in “chilul Hashem”. Honoring Hashem means doing His Mitzvos/commandments. Neglecting any is a chillul Hashem, new-age definitions notwithstanding.

    This discussion reminds me of Aristotle. He was a great ethical philosopher. However, his students observed him in immoral acts that he taught to stay away from. His response: “I’m Aristotle when teaching, not now”. A lot of these ideas may be philosophically correct but are not practical to the OP, at this point and time.

    #758820

    shlishi
    Member

    Rav Moshe as well as the Chazon Ish wrote very strongly and very adamantly and very firmly that it is completely forbidden to shake hands. And the Rambam was a doctor who wrote Mishna Torah where it says you must be shomer negiah. So it is certainly true that I am under “doctor’s orders” not to touch.

    #758821

    m in Israel
    Member

    good.jew — It does not seem that the OP’s main concern with regard to negiah was the handshaking issue. (These are classmates — presumably the handshaking dilemma has passed for the most part!) It seems she is more concerned about working on group projects, etc.. where other situations of negiah arise.

    I do agree that there is no reason whatsoever to lie, and it is highly inappropriate (and probably against Halacha) to do so. As other posters said, there is no reason why one cannot politely and matter of factly explain this issue the same way one would explain not eating non-kosher refreshments. The worst case scenario is a few strange looks, and some classmates who think you’re a bit strange (which may not be such a bad thing. . . )

    #758822

    SJSinNYC
    Member

    This was an interesting thread.

    Hudi,

    You can be nice and friendly, without becoming close to your classmates.

    You can share your notes or copy theirs and still just be friendly.

    Also, keep an eye out for some frum guys – I met my husband in college 🙂

    #758823

    mdd
    Member

    Truth be told, you are so yeshivish-wrong!! Not making a bad impression on the Goyim is Chillul HaShem. This concept has very strong foundation in the TaNaCh and Divrei Chazal. Look up the Gemora in Ha’Arel, to start with.

    #758824

    There’s a huge misconception in “chilul Hashem”. Honoring Hashem means doing His Mitzvos/commandments. Neglecting any is a chillul Hashem, new-age definitions notwithstanding.

    Well said truth be told.

    #758825

    apushatayid
    Participant

    “Now you have to find a way around this Halacha”

    (I assumed – perhaps I am guilty of assuming – that the OP was concerned with non jewish males.) And, if your a non jewish male, thats a pretty clear cut way around the psak of the Rambam.

    #758826

    mdd
    Member

    HRH and Truth be told, you indeed do have a huge misconception about what constitutes Chillul HaShem.

    #758827

    mdd:

    Truth be told, you are so yeshivish-wrong!!

    Lets get this,

    1) Attacking yeshivish in general, but no specific part.

    2) Whatever it is you’re attacking your attacking through referencing, without citing. Wow.

    A coherent argument would go as follows. You would mention only what was said that you’re debating. Labeling would be left out. Then you would proceed to prove your position, clearly. Otherwise, do you think such an argument is taken seriously?

    HRH: Thank you

    #758828

    mdd:

    Here’s a book on the subject, go through it and then argue. Thank you

    http://hebrewbooks.org/14236

    #758829

    mdd
    Member

    Truth be told, I do not need books when I know the mekoros and what Rabbonim pasken. If the Goyim do not like that you do not serve avoda zorah, it is tough luck on them. If they get an impression that the Jews are dishonest or have no derech eretz, it’s Chillul HaShem.

    #758830

    mdd:

    I know the mekoros and what Rabbonim pasken

    You have yet to share a single “mekor”. You have yet to even mention what it is you’re disagreeing with. I’ll have to assume that your “mekoros” escaped you for the moment. If so, why don’t you start reading the Chofetz Chaim’s sefer? Scroll up, its right here, just under the instructions about a coherent argument.

    Thank you

    #758831

    BUBBLE
    Participant

    There is no reason to be rude I work in a non orthodox environment and for the past years have never shook a gentleman’s hand. I politely say I am an orthodox woman and don’t shake hand with the opposite sex. Some are aware of it some ask questions. It has never stopped me from doing my work and making a Kiddush Hashem by being an employee who gives them 100%.

    Hatzalocha to you.

    There are many other people in healthcare who do not shake hands for the sole reason of exposing themselves to germs..

    #758832

    mdd i know kol hatorah kula and i say that you are wrong. i have hundreds of mekoros but i wont share any of them with you.

    STAY AWAY whatever the cost, its not worth developing a real relationship with a goy it will ruin your life!!!!!!!!

    #758833

    TikkunHatzot
    Member

    @bubble. I applaude you for your stance.

    My Rabbi is a doctor & he never shakes the hand of any woman. He stops & explains to them it’s his religious beliefs.

    He told me that he actually finds that many women rather have him as a doctor since they now that he will NOT touch them unless he absolutely NEEDS to.

    #758834

    mw13
    Participant

    “There’s a huge misconception in “chilul Hashem”. Honoring Hashem means doing His Mitzvos/commandments. Neglecting any is a chillul Hashem, new-age definitions notwithstanding.”

    Couldn’t agree more.

    mdd:

    “I know the mekoros”

    Care to share them with us?

    BUBBLE:

    I don’t think anybody here is suggesting that one should, as a matter of principle, be rude to non-jews; only that when dealing with members of the opposite gender it pays to err to the side of caution.

    #758835

    yunger mann
    Member

    Perhaps this is why Reb Matisyahu Salimon announced in the name of Rav Elyashiv Shlit”a and other gedolim that its assur for a woman to go to college.

    #758836

    mdd
    Member

    The chevra, how about Yevomos 79A, for crying out loud! What I meant to say: you can not just say “be rude” and who cares what anybody thinks!

    #758837

    mdd
    Member

    But, aei no hinami, she should not be too friendly.

    Yunger mann, any ideas about how to make a living, if all boys are to learn and all girls are not to go to college( or to work , for that matter)?

    #758838

    mdd, don’t blame it on those who learn. If a girl knows she will be marrying a worker, not learner, than you would be maskim she should not go to college? No, then you’ll blame it on the “need” for “a two income family”. And nisht stam a two income, but two high incomes. So don’t bring up learners if you’ll have other excuses if they’re not available to blame. Most (frum) college girls do *not* marry full-time long-term learners.

    #758839

    apushatayid
    Participant

    To steer the thread back on topic. This girl is not in college. She posed the same question about the stock boy in the local grocery store or the bus driver who takes her every day to seminary or her volunteer shift at the local childrens hospital. The question is common for people of both genders in many daily situations that have nothing to do with college.

    #758840

    shlishi
    Member

    You don’t have as close a relationship with the bus driver as you do with your classmate that you can be working on a project with.

    #758841

    apushatayid
    Participant

    You dont have to have a close relationship with a classmate with whom you are working on a project with either. This isnt the 4th grade where you do a project at home, at night.

    #758842

    shlishi
    Member

    Don’t kid yourself.

    #758843

    aries2756
    Participant

    It is always appropriate to act professionally and that means NOT to listen to bad language and riske discussions. You can say that you are a very religious individual and you find that kind of language offensive, childish and totally unprofessional and unbecoming for someone in the healing and nurturing field. Although you like them and you think they are all very nice people, If they can’t respect that you will have to excuse yourself from the conversations. Practicing professionalism while in school will only promote a more appropriate attitude while on the job.

    #758844

    hudi
    Participant

    HRH – “Most (frum) college girls do *not* marry full-time long-term learners.”

    actually I’m looking for a long term learner

    apushatayid – “To steer the thread back on topic. This girl is not in college.”

    Do you mean the topic the OP started? She’s in college.

    #758845

    hudi
    Participant

    Aries – I do not have the guts to say a huge statement like that! Can I just walk away and let them get the message?

    #758846

    aries2756
    Participant

    Hudi, you can choose to do whatever you feel comfortable doing.

    #758847

    SJSinNYC
    Member

    If a girl knows she will be marrying a worker, not learner, than you would be maskim she should not go to college?

    Its important for both spouses to have the possibility of a liveable wage.

    My father got very ill when I was a few years old. My mother went back to work – her health care is what kept my family from going bankrupt. Then, when he died, it meant there was food on the table.

    #758849

    apushatayid
    Participant

    “apushatayid – “To steer the thread back on topic. This girl is not in college.”

    Do you mean the topic the OP started? She’s in college.”

    I meant to write, lets make believe she is not in college…and then continue reading 🙂

    #758851

    mdd
    Member

    HRH, if she does not plan on marrying a long-term learner? preferably, no college.

    #758852

    hanib
    Participant

    Hudy, you don’t have to say anything about the language – they’ll, sooner, rather than later, realize that you’re different. Are there other frum girls in your class – if so, that usually makes things easier. Also, as the program progresses, and if always take classes with same people, they’ll get used to you and your ways – just be careful not to get so used to them. 😉

    #758853

    Really, this all boils down to your personality. Guys tend to react to body language..but 1 thing is clear: the fact that you ask this question shows you are not flurting and have been businesslike since the beginning. As long as you aren’t somewhat playful, you will stay out of trouble and be respected at the same time. Good luck!

Viewing 37 posts - 51 through 87 (of 87 total)
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