I Feel Disenfranchised

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  • #593274

    haifagirl
    Participant

    The other night I saw another “inspirational” video. This one, like all the rest, featured speeches by Rebbetzin so-and-so and Mrs. such-and-such.

    The frum community acts as if there no unmarried women who have something worthwhile to say.

    I would love to hear from someone who isn’t married. And not about issues related to “singleness.” Single people can speak about tznius and about shmiras haloshon and about tefillah and about any other topic you care to name. Yet the frum community acts as if we don’t exist.

    Why?

    #716108

    eclipse
    Member

    If you are single,you can advertise a shiur.Nothing wrong with “breaking the mold”and leading the way!Hatzlacha,my dear.Or as the world says:”YOU GO,GIRL!”

    #716109

    Helpful
    Member

    There is an inyan that only a married person should daven for the amud on the yomim noraim. So there is a legitimate thing about limiting things to only a married person in certain inyanim.

    #716110

    smartcookie
    Member

    If there’s any qualified single who’s a good speaker, she’ll have many listeners.

    When I join a speech, I don’t inquire about the speaker’s marital status. If she’s good, I listen!

    I’m wondering where you take your assumption from.

    #716111

    anon for this
    Participant

    Helpful,

    It’s true that there are inyanim regarding the qualifications of married people vs. single people, with respect to, as you noted, davening for the amud and also teaching young children. However, these apply to men, not women. Unless you are saying that married women may daven for the amud on yomim noraim.

    #716112

    WIY
    Member

    haifagirl

    I hate to break it to you but many single girls are teachers in the bais yaakovs in Brooklyn. I have no clue what the problem is, I didnt realize there was a need for single inspirational speakers.

    Or are you just looking for something to complain about? You should be happy that Baruch Hashem we have so many great inspirational speakers!

    #716113

    eclipse
    Member

    She means she has “what to give over”and is wondering why the forum of shiur-giving seems to be closed for her.The answer is IT’S NOT CLOSED.

    #716114

    You know if you feel such a stigma for being single in YOUR community, there are others out there. You may be shocked to here this, but there are plenty of single girls who delay getting married because they want to go to university and get a real secular education so they can get a real job…I know the horror of it all…let the bashing begin on me suggesting that delaying marriage and getting an secular education is not a horrible idea:)

    #716115

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    There is an inyan that only a married person should daven for the amud on the yomim noraim. So there is a legitimate thing about limiting things to only a married person in certain inyanim.

    There is an inyan that only a kohen should perform a pidyon haben. So there is a legitimate thing about limiting things to only a kohen in certain inyanim.

    As you can see, you can apply your logic to almost anything. The real question to ask, is this one of those inyanim? If you believe it to be the case, please state why and how.

    The Wolf

    #716116

    so right
    Member

    mikehall: It’s not such a horrible idea, if the idea of getting stuck being single all your life – after pushing it off – is not so horrible either.

    #716117

    whoah!

    this is why some people are afraid to post here.

    helpful pointed out that there is a preference for married people in some inyanim. you can apply it or not apply it where you choose.

    #716118

    blueberrymuffin
    Participant

    It’s true that as of yet there are no well-known single speakers. But if you feel you have what to give (or know other singles who do) why don’t you offer your services? You might be surprised to find out that people do value what you have to say…

    BTW- a couple of years ago, in camp, we had an amazing inspirational single speaker

    #716119

    kapusta
    Participant

    Anyone ever hear of Chevi Garfinkel?

    A single speaker is not so common but I cant think of any reason why it shouldn’t be done. I’m sure there are lots of other people who feel the same, maybe look into setting up a blog or website of some sort.

    *kapusta*

    #716120
    #716121

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    helpful pointed out that there is a preference for married people in some inyanim. you can apply it or not apply it where you choose.

    And I pointed out that there is a preference* for kohanim in some inyanim. What if I choose to apply it to posting in the Coffeeroom?

    In other words, just because one type is preferred in one situation does not make it valid to apply that same preference in any situation — at least not without stating the commonality between the two cases that makes them comparable.

    The Wolf

    * Granted, the example I chose above is not a preference but a requirement — but there are enough other areas where we give deference to kohanim that one can easily make the same argument.

    #716122

    WIY
    Member

    Haifagirl

    I think you have a self esteem issue and maybe feel that “you don’t exist.” Saying “yet the frum community acts as if we don’t exist” is a ridiculous accusation to make. Singles very much exist and nobody pretends they don’t. If you don’t feel good about yourself don’t project it on everyone else!

    #716123

    tzippi
    Member

    Tobi Einhorn.

    Dena Blaustein, a”h.

    All the unmarried women who do and are good and are loved by their friends and communities who are under the radar.

    #716124

    Sacrilege
    Member

    WIY

    Calm down, she didnt say anything against you specifically, dont take it so personally. Geez…

    Being that I have no interest in being a speaker, I am not familiar with what Haifagirl is referring to. Like Kapusta pointed out there are some very inspirational female single speakers, who do a lot for the community.

    In my own personal experience with being single (in the Frum community) its not so much that you dont count but your opinions are discredited, like somehow because you are single your IQ must have fallen 50 points. The little smirks and the half wave, “uch na, wait till your married…”

    #716125

    bpt
    Participant

    Haifa –

    While I see your point, that’s still no reason to feel that you have no voice. With the rare exception of a family simcha, I’m rarely going to have a podium from which to speak. And I don’t ever see my writings getting published in a public paper (unless I pay for an Advetorial).

    Know what? We are lucky to live in the digital age, so there is ALWAYS an open forum, and always an attentive audience. My chocmas may never make it to the “opinion page” of the haredi paper of record,(take your pick) but the CR is always (most of the time?) ready and eager to hear whats on my mind.

    So, sound off, Hafia.. we are listening!

    #716126

    bombmaniac
    Participant

    maybe there arent any single speakers because they all feel teh same way and no one steps forward. you could be creating your own reality…

    #716127

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Singles don’t exist. They are not recognized as part of the community.

    She should feel disenfranchised. She is disenfranchised.

    Look around at shul. The married 23 year old gets an aliya when he comes home, while a single 30 year old gets pesicha. As a community we don’t recognize people unless they are married.

    #716128

    WIY
    Member

    popa_bar_abba

    If single people dont exist then I guess the shidduch “crisis” has been solved.

    #716129

    seeallsides
    Participant

    the OP is stating a fact – we treat single girls as ‘one of the girls’ and not with the respect accorded to a married woman. Of course, there is a self esteem issue – you try a 24/7 nisayon where you are up for evaluation, judged, pitied, all the time while you have to maintain the i am gorgeous, content, perfect shidduch material not a bit bitter or disillusioned even though i have been doing this for ……umpteen years. Every person should cry in shma koleinu for the pain that these singles go through – it is our tzara.

    #716130

    eclipse
    Member

    haifagirl,I used to be asked to give local shiurim…much less so since my divorce.So,I “darshan” to my friends!(short n sweet–if an interesting thought comes to me)

    #716131

    ronrsr
    Member

    now we must wait while the Haifagirl inspirational videos go through post-production.

    #716132

    Feif Un
    Participant

    When Sarah Shenirer started teaching, she wasn’t married (she was divorced). She remarried while already teaching.

    #716133

    charliehall
    Participant

    I know an absolutely brilliant female professor at Touro.

    #716134

    metrodriver
    Member

    Haifagirl; do you know that Sarah Schenirer (The founder of Bais Yaakov, back in Europe.) (Who didn’t know that?!) and Lillian Wald, who initiated the Visiting Nurse service were unmarried. Yet they enjoyed the utmost respect. Besides. If someone wants to enjoy being called a Rebbetzin so and so, all they have to do is find a great grandmother’s aunt who lived in a certain Polish or Hungarian village and let everyone know that they prefer to be called the famous, world-renowned “Rebbetzin…. of Sharosh Potok or Novosibirsk”.

    #716135

    eclipse
    Member

    me too,my friend’s sister,G.S.by the way,haifagirl,if you post a dvar torah,i promise to read it!

    #716136

    mw13
    Participant

    I don’t think anybody would really argue that only married woman should speak (to other women). I would assume the reason that married women tend to be the ones speaking is because speakers tend to be 1) older (and therefore wiser), and 2) not to dull to begin with; both factors that also increase the chance of being married.

    #716137

    WIY
    Member

    mw13

    “2) not to dull to begin with; both factors that also increase the chance of being married.”

    Wow, so according to you the reason single girls are getting older and not finding shidduchim is because they are dull? I cant believe you can make such a blanket statement. If the girls blast you, its because you deserve it!

    #716138

    eclipse
    Member

    Some very not-dull people are single/newly single,my dear.Surely you meant to explain yourself?

    #716139

    mw13
    Participant

    WIY:

    “Wow, so according to you the reason single girls are getting older and not finding shidduchim is because they are dull?”

    I never said that. All I was that being smart helps your chances of getting married, and I stand by that.

    eclipse:

    Are there exceptions to the rule? Of course. But in general, the smartest girls will get married off faster than their less intellectually gifted peers.

    #716140

    Sacrilege
    Member

    “But in general, the smartest girls will get married off faster than their less intellectually gifted peers”

    This has absolutely no basis in fact.

    #716141

    so right
    Member

    mw13, is that why overeducated girls geting their law degrees etc. are often still single in their 30’s?

    #716142

    blueberrymuffin
    Participant

    But in general, the smartest girls will get married off faster than their less intellectually gifted peers.

    That can’t be further from the truth! Very often the reason a girl will have a hard time finding her zivug is because her parents want a boy who will be perfect enough for their perfect daughter. That means that the girl is smart, outgoing , pretty etc… I personally know many such girls and they are all smarter/sharper than a lot of their married classmates.

    #716143

    tzippi
    Member

    I thought the opposite of dull was interesting, not smart.

    #716144

    smartcookie
    Member

    MW13- what a wrong,untrue, and bad statement.

    #716145

    WIY
    Member

    mw13

    First of all smart doesnt help your chances in getting married. If anything most guys are not looking for particularly smart girls. Besides most girls are average. Thats common sense no it wouldnt be called average otherwise. That being said, there are many smart girls that are still single. If anything, I think the smart girls have a harder time especially in Yeshivish dating where the guy is often uneducated and clueless about many things while she is way above and beyond him in most areas.

    The girls that tend to go fast are the ones with easy going non intimidating natures, good conversationalists, good looks, money, good family…

    A small percentage of guys are actually looking for a smart girl (count me in) because they feel that their masculinity or self esteem will not be challenged in any way by a smart or more accomplished wife.

    #716147

    eclipse
    Member

    Shidduchim working out have almost nothing to do with Teva.Read any shidduch story book,even “Chicken Soup For The Soul”books.Even goyim see the incredible”luck” or divinely controlled circumstances when it comes to meeting Mr.Right(or even Mr.Wrong as it may turn out-that experience was also meant to be.)

    #716148

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    A small percentage of guys are actually looking for a smart girl (count me in) because they feel that their masculinity or self esteem will not be challenged in any way by a smart or more accomplished wife.

    But they still won’t date sacrilege apparently.

    Actually, I think they are dating, but don’t want to tell us. That is understandable, it is none of our business.

    #716149

    haifagirl
    Participant

    First of all, I never said I wanted to speak. I said I wanted to hear from single women.

    And anybody who doesn’t think singles are treated differently just isn’t paying attention. I used to get really annoyed when I was referred to as a “single girl” and someone five years (or ten years) younger would be called a “married woman.” Obviously she was thought of as an adult, while I was still thought of as a child. (I finally adjusted to being called a girl when a friend who is my age became a bubbie. At that point being a “girl” didn’t seem so bad.)

    How often do you hear a child call a married woman by her first name? She’s almost always Mrs. so-and-so. The first time I spent a Shabbos with a frum family I was shocked when they had their children calling me by my first name. I was an adult and I didn’t consider myself in the same peer group with a 2-year-old. Those children, now some of whom are married with children of their own, still call me by my first name. However, the mother of these children gets offended when her friends’ teenage children call her by her first name.

    In short, I have frequently been treated as a child, not an adult.

    #716150

    mw13
    Participant

    All I meant to say was that the women speaking at public events tend to be top shidduch prospects, so it shouldn’t come as a surprise that they tend to be married. That said, yes, I do think smart girls are more in demand than not so smart girls. But you’re all free to disagree with me.

    blueberrymuffin:

    “Very often the reason a girl will have a hard time finding her zivug is because her parents want a boy who will be perfect enough for their perfect daughter.”

    Then the problem is in the parents being picky, not in the girl being smart.

    tzippi:

    “I thought the opposite of dull was interesting, not smart.”

    I meant dull intellectually. But generally you are right, dull is used as the opposite of interesting.

    smartcookie:

    “what a wrong,untrue, and bad statement.”

    I can see why one would say my comment was “wrong,” or “untrue” – after all, we’re dealing with something that’s rather hard to prove for certain here. But what about my comment was “bad”?

    #716151

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Amen Haifa.

    #716152

    Sacrilege
    Member

    popa

    I dont really have a problem in that area, I tend to date a lot of lawyers, ironically…

    #716153

    so right
    Member
    #716154

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Sacrilege:

    I meant specifically WIY

    #716155

    Brooklyn Yenta
    Participant

    if you look around, you’ll see that there’s no rhyme or reason to why some people are single and others are married. you have the prettiest, smartest girls still single, the prettiest, smartest girls divorced, and the prettiest, smartest girls married. and the same goes for the dumbest, plainest girls being single, divorced, or married. go figure.

    #716156

    Sacrilege
    Member

    popa

    Seems as if I missed the boat on that one…

    #716157

    WIY
    Member

    Popa

    You are so off. Its not nogeiah.

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