Is the vaad the mafia??

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  • #831307

    shtusim
    Participant

    zahavasdad – As a long time FR resident and a mispallel of the Rabbi you smear – SHAME ON YOU. You have NO IDEA what you are talking about.

    First of all, the 5T Vaad sets its own standards.

    The Vaad ranges from YI to Chabad to Agudah, so they ‘meet in the middle” on certain things.Rabbi Yosef Eisen – OU bug expert and administrator or Kehilla Kashrus – is the administrator. That means he makes sure that the restaurants comply to the standards SET BY THE VAAD. He does not make policy.

    The Rov you are talking about has higher standards then the other Rabbonim do. This is not the forum to discuss why.

    ITS HIS CHOICE, we live in America. So as he has said COUNTLESS TIMES, he tells HIS MISPALLELIM which of the establishments meet his standards. These are recommendations FOR HIS KEHILLA. if you want to follow them, fine. if you don’t fine.

    Oh by the way, he does not solicit establishments. He only visits an establishment IF HE IS INVITED BY THE OWNER.

    He DOES NOT CHARGE ANY MONEY FOR THIS SERVICE, I dare anyone to say otherwise.

    #831308

    I didn’t read all the posts on this thread, so please excuse me if I’m being repetitive.

    I think that all restaurant owners are guilty of extortion. If I’m walking by and I’m hungry but don’t have money on me they won’t give me a free meal. Don’t restaurants exist to feed people? And if I’m thirsty they’ll sell me a can of coke for $2. Extortion! In walmart I can get a dozen cans of coke for not much more than $2.

    #831309

    makes “His own list” that he charges the restaurants to be on.

    does the price of being on the list go up as the restaurant gets older?

    Oops! Wrong thread! Never mind!

    #831310

    zahavasdad:

    “However there is a Rabbi in Far Rockaway who refuses to abide by the rules set by the community standards (Which one is required to follow) and makes “His own list” that he charges the restaurants to be on. “

    You are partially mistaken. This one Rabbi DOES have his own informal list, however he does not charge the establishments extra to be on that list. He has certain guidelines that he requires (only shomer shabbas owner, fully cholov yisroel and pas yisroel, to name a few).

    Another point, he does not say that those establishments that do not abide to his standards are “not kosher” but rather that they are “not recommended” to be eaten in. And if you are required (due to a family simcha or something else) to eat in one of those establishments he will tell you what he recommends you can eat there.

    As a side point, this Rabbi is not part of the Five Towns Vaad.

    #831311

    kfb
    Participant

    I’m not sure if you’re talking about this rabbi, but there is a rabbi in far rockaway who told people they can’t buy OU meat from costco. Once he said that, I knew it was a joke..

    #831312

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    If one chooses to live in a community one must obey the standards. If someone chooses to live in Williamsburg, Its likely you would have to follow the Satmar rules for living there.

    One cannot be more lenient than the community standards. I think most understand this

    Just like one cannot be more lenient than the community one cannot be more strict than the community. If all (or most) of the Rabbanim in the community are part of some sort of Vaad, one is required to be a member as well and cannot distance themselves from the Vaad.

    And this Rav DOES charge to be on his list,several people have independently verified this information to be

    #831313

    zahavasdad:

    “Just like one cannot be more lenient than the community one cannot be more strict than the community.”

    Please show me were it says this?? I can choose to be stricter or more lenient than anyone else in my community as long as I have a Rav who paskens for me (I usually use this book (sefer) called the Mishnah Berurah as my halachic guideline).

    And again, you are mistaken, the Rabbi you are talking about does not charge anyone to be on his recommendation list. I know this from personal experience.

    This Rabbi did have his own hashgacha at one point (I think I heard a rumor that he stopped giving it out but I never verified the rumor) that he used to use outside the Far Rockaway/5 towns area, in which he probably did charge money. However, if an establishment is under the 5 towns Vaad, and the establishment abides by his rules, he will add them to his recommended list without charging a penny.

    #831314

    twisted
    Participant

    When I was sort of newly married, and had a shiny new smicha, but no distinct life plan, a broad shouldered Rov, an acquaintance of my in-laws told me “young man, stay away from Kashrus, its a dirty filthy business” I sort of knew this, having been “deputized” to stand in for a mashgiach at a time when I had no kelim to be efffective, and them once when I had the keilim, in, believe it or not, a restaurant with a fleishig side, a milchic side, and a pareve middle. So I went into a business with some ordinary filth instead of the spiritual kind. For continuing education, I once was convinced to sell arba minim. I came to the conclusion that any business in religion does not have be, but very well can be a first class ticket to Gehinom.

    #831315

    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Any business in any division could be a first class ticket to gehenom

    #831316

    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    What should be is GAMP (Generally Accepted Mashiach Principles) just like accountants have, and the moetzes should make the rules

    #831317

    Josh31
    Participant

    “Mashiach”

    A “g” is missing.

    Otherwise:

    a) Prove you are from the House of David;

    b) Obtain a white donkey;

    c) Fulfill the 5 requirements specified in the Rambam Yad Chazakah.

    #831318

    oomis
    Participant

    As a side point, this Rabbi is not part of the Five Towns Vaad. “

    He once was, and left. As soon as someone with clout says, “It’s kosher, but i don’t recommend it…” he might as well be saying it’s treif, because if he has followers, they will follow. And a businessman who may be a kosher, ehrliche Yid, is put out of business just like that. If a hechsher is reliable, it should be enough and no one should be allowed to be motzi shem ra on it.

    #831319

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    He once was [on the Vaad’s kashrus committee], and left.

    Yes, because he was accused of having a conflict of interest since he had a private hashgocha in a different community. Somehow, the rabbi who worked for the OU was not accused of having a conflict of interest (I actually think it makes sense to have rabbonim on the kashrus committee who are involved in hashgocha because they are bigger experts).

    a businessman who may be a kosher, ehrliche Yid, is put out of business.

    That’s factually incorrect. The majority of establishments in the FT are not on “the list”, yet are still open.

    If a hechsher is reliable, it should be enough

    That’s fine for those who consider those standards acceptable, and nobody’s trying to close down any establishments which are under the Vaad, but what about the people living in the FT/FR whose standards are different? Do you really have a problem if they have a pizza shop, fleishig restaurant, or take-out place which they are comfortable with? Must they travel to Brooklyn to get the meat or chicken with the shechitah they prefer?

    no one should be allowed to be motzi shem ra on it.

    We agree on that. Thankfully, nobody is being motzi shem ra on the Vaad.

    #831320

    Jersey Jew
    Participant

    I am troubled by the original question.

    No one, as in NO ONE, owes the proprietor anything. If you want to open a restaurant you have to be prepared for all expenses, INCLUDING kashrus. The kashrus professionals are not obligated to subsidize you! They have bills to pay as well. They cant show the bank a picture of your establishment in lieu of payments.

    Besides, the stat for failing restaurants is VERY high as in more than 4 of 5 FAIL. So where is the money coming from after it fails??

    I am with the kashrus agency on this one (no, I dont work for them!) and for anyone who has the audacity to call it a mafia, I would love to meet you and show you what mafia is. After that you could go eat trief!

    #831321

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    If you dont like a certain community standards you are free to move. There are plenty of other communities to live. If the sight of uncovered women in pants walking down central avenue bothers you while food shopping at Gourmet Glatt, then I dont think this Kehilla is for you. You are free to move to Borough Park and shop on 13th Ave and KRM.

    Working for the o-u is different than OWNING a Hasghcha (Owning the O-U would be the same) and on a side note while the O-U does give restaurants hasghcha’s ts not the main business.

    #831322

    kfb
    Participant

    Mark levin- I know what the mafia is, its the vaad!!!

    #831323

    BTGuy
    Participant

    The Mafia has ways of getting people to do their bidding, if all else fails. The Vaad does not employ those same “techniques”.

    #831324

    lesschumras
    Participant

    The 5TVAADproblem strongarm tactics come into play particularly when someone opens a placeand already has a place elsewhere. Two owners refused to pay for a second hashgacha and the Vaad had no kashrus issues. They simply said if you operate here you haveto pay. When they said no,it was announced on Shabbos not to eat there.One folded and the other. Bagel Boss is doing great

    #831325

    soliek
    Member

    HEY! KFB! remember those questions i asked a few times?

    1) how much did the rav hamachshir want

    2) whats the going rate

    maybe you wanna try answering those? they seem just a wee bit relevant…

    #831326

    soliek, why get involved with annoying facts if one is perfectly happy with their preconceived notions?

    #831327

    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Thank you josh,

    Lol that’s funny

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