It is the same tune!!!

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  • #1225958

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    “although I would wonder about songs praising Yoshke – could songs dedicated to a”z be a problem even if

    they’re not part of its official worship?”

    I can’t imagine it’s not a problem!

    “If it has pritzus, it’s also a problem. Or nibbul peh.”

    “I’d forgotten about that. You wouldn’t be allowed to

    listen to that even in a non-musical context, though.”

    True.

    “(Also, by “nibbul peh” you presumably mean foul language.”

    I’m not sure what you mean by foul language. I don’t know the source, but I was always told (or thought or assumed) that nibul peh refers to what we always called “curse words” or 4-letter words. But only the ones that actually are bad words and have bad meanings.

    I think that it doesn’t apply to those words that Frum people generally avoid (and as kids we always considered to be curse words) but aren’t technically bad words, like the ones beginning with a “d” and an “h”. Not necessarily recommending their usage, but I think they aren’t technically assur.

    #1225959

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    When I was a kid, once I called my older sibling “divorced.”

    I thought that it was a curse word.

    The response was, “What?! Do you even know what that means?”

    #LittleSisterProblems

    #1225960

    Given how long ago the term “nivul peh” was first used, it should

    be obvious that it doesn’t refer to specific modern words.

    It definitely refers to pritzus – see Mesilas Yeshorim chapter 11.

    The use of non-pritzusdik but vulgar language would fall under the

    concept of lashon n’kiyah. I don’t know of a requirement not to

    hear other people be vulgar, although presumably one’s nature

    ought to be refined enough that one would want to avoid doing so.

    #1225961

    By the way, what technically qualifies a word as bad?

    #1225962

    MRS PLONY
    Participant

    The Jeopardy song IS TOO just “Twinkle Twinkle” with a funky beat. Try singing “Twinkle Twinkle” to the Jeopardy tune, and you’ll see that it fits.

    Also, “You are my sunshine” and “This land is your land” use the same tune. As each other, I mean.

    #1225963

    Meno
    Participant

    The Jeopardy song IS TOO just “Twinkle Twinkle” with a funky beat. Try singing “Twinkle Twinkle” to the Jeopardy tune, and you’ll see that it fits.

    It is totally not. The phrasing is the same but the notes are totally different.

    Also, “You are my sunshine” and “This land is your land” use the same tune. As each other, I mean.

    Also not true. Again, same phrasing, different notes.

    #1225964

    MRS PLONY
    Participant

    Meno, can we agree to disagree?

    #1225965

    You are My Sunshine is similar to This Land. The Jeapordy tune sounds more like I’m a Little Teapot than Twinkle Twinkle.

    #1225966

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    What shares the tune of Fifty Nifty United States?

    #1225967

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    “You are My Sunshine is similar to This Land”

    wow – I’m so tone deaf, I never noticed. To me, all songs sound the same. Especially if I’m the one singing.

    I had a friend over once who kept insisting that I sing zmiros with her. I kept trying to explain that I don’t know how to sing. She was like, “if you can walk, you can dance; if you can talk, you can sing.”

    So I finally gave in and started singing. As soon as I opened my mouth to sing, she was like, “you’re right, forget it.”

    #1225968

    Meno
    Participant

    “Meno, can we agree to disagree?”

    Not really sure what that means. It’s an objective thing that can be proven. They’re not the same song

    #1225969

    WinnieThePooh
    Participant

    “Also, “You are my sunshine” and “This land is your land” use the same tune. As each other, I mean. “

    I disagree- they start out the same – and both use lots of C,D,E and Fs. But they are different- an obvious difference, the high note of “happy” in the former song is not found in the latter.

    To prove it, here are the actual notes for both songs in key of C (sorry can’t put in the length of notes, dashes indicate longer beats)

    This land:

    CDE F-F– FCD E-E– CCE D-D– DDCD E-E– CCDE F-F– FFCD E-E– DD-CBBCD C–

    And now for sunshine:

    GCD E-E- E#DE C-C- CDE F-A- AGF E– CDE F-A-AGF E-C- CDE-FDD EC-

    But here is another pair that I found is the same tune- the high parts of Avraham Fried’s (I think) “ki hamitzva hazos” starting from “ki korov eleicha hadavar me’od…” and “zacharti lach chesed neurayich” starting from “lechtech acharai bamidbar…” They have different tempos/keys, but they are very very similar.

    #1225970

    Also the words “v’hosheiv es ho’avodah” from Avraham Fried’s (and like Ki Hamitzvah, Yossi Green composed) “R’tzeh” have the same tune.

    #1225971

    Miriam377
    Participant

    How about this one:

    Oh what a day from Shabsi in the record cover (1980’s) and

    Kol Berama Composed by Yossi Green sung by London school of Jewish song.

    #1225972

    I’m not familiar with “Shabsi in the Record Cover”, but most Jewish children’s recordings use well known tunes.

    #1225973

    MRS PLONY
    Participant

    Meno, I base my assertion that “You are my sunshine” and “This land is your land” are the same tune on the fact that they sound alike. Same thing with “Twinkle Twinkle” and the Jeopardy theme. I don’t know what ‘phrasing’ is.

    #1225974

    That’s very subjective. Objectively, two songs have the same tune if they share the same notes. These don’t.

    #1225975

    MRS PLONY
    Participant

    Rats. Okay. You win.

    #1225976

    Phrasing is the way the notes are grouped together.

    #1225977

    MRS PLONY
    Participant

    So now I know where that particular melody comes from. And you do, too.

    Happy Purim everybody.

    #1225978

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    *Happy Happy Purim MRS PLONY* 🙂 🙂 🙂

    #1225979

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    That one I actually knew about (my mom gets the credit for that bit of knowledge).

    #1225980

    Speaking of Allan Sherman, Uncle Moishy’s

    “Good Advice” is based on his “Good Advice.”

    #1225981

    Wow Mrs. Plony. But that song came out 2 years ago so obviously the guy must of been Jewish or something..lol

    #1225982

    apushatayid
    Participant

    how about the tune to “bas kol” and “im worth it”, sound very “similar”.

    #1225983

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    Shopping – my mother knows the song from her childhood, and I think her mother a”h did before her. My friend told me that it’s an old black slave song. It’s definitely very old.

    #1225984

    MRS PLONY
    Participant

    Hi, Shopping 613. You mean ‘Jump Down Spin Around’ has been popular lately? The video my son showed me looked old, like a black-and-white TV broadcast.

    When I was a kid my folks had probably all of Alan Sherman’s records. (Wish I could listen to them now. Sigh.) JDSA was probably on “My Son the Folk Singer”. The records were old way back then in the ’70s, and the songs must have been a part of the culture for some time before that in order for them to be recognizable for parody purposes.

    I always heard that music notation as we know it is a fairly modern invention, so we have no way of knowing how the songs sung/played in antiquity actually sounded. Wouldn’t it be hilarious to find out when Moshiach comes if the music from the Bais HaMikdash sound familiar. But in an unexpected way, like today’s pop songs or something.

    #1244720

    Chortkov
    Participant

    Yosselle Rosenblatts “Umipnei Chata’einu” begins the same as the traditional “Chayav Inish Levesumei”

    The traditional tune for “Bnei Beischa kevatechila” in Chazaratz HaShatz is the same as the traditional “Keli Tzion…”. I’ve heard this observation attributed to R’ Chaim Brisk.

    #1244724

    Chortkov
    Participant

    Interestingly enough, there are two songs which sound very different when sung, but are almost identical.

    The chorus of MBD’s Ko Ribon [Moshiach] (Sounds like its composed by Yossi Green, but I never looked it up) is exceedingly similar to the first part of Dedi’s “Ima” [Rotzo] (“There is a time I can remember…”) – just sung much slower. Anybody agree?

    #1244729

    Chortkov
    Participant

    Yeedle sings two songs on one album with the same high part:

    Track 1, Shiru Lamelech
    Track 6, Kulanu Echad

    Sing one while listening to the other, you’ll get a bit of a shock!

    #1244731

    Chortkov
    Participant

    Uncle Moishy’s “Torah Torah Torah Torah Torah Tzivo Lonu Moishe” comes from Mozarts 25th symphony.

    #1244746

    WinnieThePooh
    Participant

    Countries also take tunes from others.
    Hatikva is based on Smetna’s Moldau
    The US’s “My country ’tis of thee, sweet land of liberty” uses the British national anthem “G-d save the Queen” (how ironic!)

    #1247884

    tobs
    Participant

    Deaf Man in the Shteibel by Lev Tahor is really Blind man in the Bleachers by some non-Jewish singer

    #1248148

    WinnieThePooh
    Participant

    tobs, Lev Tahor sang an a capella version of the song originally put out by country yossie and the shteeble hoppers. Country Yossi made that and many other songs as parodies of the originals.

    #1252416

    “Amadeus, Amadeus, A-Amadeus”
    (Let’s see who knows what the Jewish one is…)

    #1252468

    Chortkov
    Participant

    Is this anything to do with the newest Lev Tahor?

    #1252472

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    Achashverosh, Achashverosh, A..A…chashverosh

    (That’s the only one I know – what’s Amadeus? :))

    #1252473

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    What about לו יהי? Who knows what that’s from?

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