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“although I would wonder about songs praising Yoshke – could songs dedicated to a”z be a problem even if
they’re not part of its official worship?”
I can’t imagine it’s not a problem!
“If it has pritzus, it’s also a problem. Or nibbul peh.”
“I’d forgotten about that. You wouldn’t be allowed to
listen to that even in a non-musical context, though.”
True.
“(Also, by “nibbul peh” you presumably mean foul language.”
I’m not sure what you mean by foul language. I don’t know the source, but I was always told (or thought or assumed) that nibul peh refers to what we always called “curse words” or 4-letter words. But only the ones that actually are bad words and have bad meanings.
I think that it doesn’t apply to those words that Frum people generally avoid (and as kids we always considered to be curse words) but aren’t technically bad words, like the ones beginning with a “d” and an “h”. Not necessarily recommending their usage, but I think they aren’t technically assur.
When I was a kid, once I called my older sibling “divorced.”
I thought that it was a curse word.
The response was, “What?! Do you even know what that means?”
#LittleSisterProblems
Given how long ago the term “nivul peh” was first used, it should
be obvious that it doesn’t refer to specific modern words.
It definitely refers to pritzus – see Mesilas Yeshorim chapter 11.
The use of non-pritzusdik but vulgar language would fall under the
concept of lashon n’kiyah. I don’t know of a requirement not to
hear other people be vulgar, although presumably one’s nature
ought to be refined enough that one would want to avoid doing so.
By the way, what technically qualifies a word as bad?
The Jeopardy song IS TOO just “Twinkle Twinkle” with a funky beat. Try singing “Twinkle Twinkle” to the Jeopardy tune, and you’ll see that it fits.
Also, “You are my sunshine” and “This land is your land” use the same tune. As each other, I mean.
The Jeopardy song IS TOO just “Twinkle Twinkle” with a funky beat. Try singing “Twinkle Twinkle” to the Jeopardy tune, and you’ll see that it fits.
It is totally not. The phrasing is the same but the notes are totally different.
Also, “You are my sunshine” and “This land is your land” use the same tune. As each other, I mean.
Also not true. Again, same phrasing, different notes.
Meno, can we agree to disagree?
You are My Sunshine is similar to This Land. The Jeapordy tune sounds more like I’m a Little Teapot than Twinkle Twinkle.
What shares the tune of Fifty Nifty United States?
“You are My Sunshine is similar to This Land”
wow – I’m so tone deaf, I never noticed. To me, all songs sound the same. Especially if I’m the one singing.
I had a friend over once who kept insisting that I sing zmiros with her. I kept trying to explain that I don’t know how to sing. She was like, “if you can walk, you can dance; if you can talk, you can sing.”
So I finally gave in and started singing. As soon as I opened my mouth to sing, she was like, “you’re right, forget it.”
“Meno, can we agree to disagree?”
Not really sure what that means. It’s an objective thing that can be proven. They’re not the same song
“Also, “You are my sunshine” and “This land is your land” use the same tune. As each other, I mean. “
I disagree- they start out the same – and both use lots of C,D,E and Fs. But they are different- an obvious difference, the high note of “happy” in the former song is not found in the latter.
To prove it, here are the actual notes for both songs in key of C (sorry can’t put in the length of notes, dashes indicate longer beats)
This land:
CDE F-F– FCD E-E– CCE D-D– DDCD E-E– CCDE F-F– FFCD E-E– DD-CBBCD C–
And now for sunshine:
GCD E-E- E#DE C-C- CDE F-A- AGF E– CDE F-A-AGF E-C- CDE-FDD EC-
But here is another pair that I found is the same tune- the high parts of Avraham Fried’s (I think) “ki hamitzva hazos” starting from “ki korov eleicha hadavar me’od…” and “zacharti lach chesed neurayich” starting from “lechtech acharai bamidbar…” They have different tempos/keys, but they are very very similar.
Also the words “v’hosheiv es ho’avodah” from Avraham Fried’s (and like Ki Hamitzvah, Yossi Green composed) “R’tzeh” have the same tune.
How about this one:
Oh what a day from Shabsi in the record cover (1980’s) and
Kol Berama Composed by Yossi Green sung by London school of Jewish song.
I’m not familiar with “Shabsi in the Record Cover”, but most Jewish children’s recordings use well known tunes.
Meno, I base my assertion that “You are my sunshine” and “This land is your land” are the same tune on the fact that they sound alike. Same thing with “Twinkle Twinkle” and the Jeopardy theme. I don’t know what ‘phrasing’ is.
That’s very subjective. Objectively, two songs have the same tune if they share the same notes. These don’t.
Rats. Okay. You win.
Phrasing is the way the notes are grouped together.
So now I know where that particular melody comes from. And you do, too.
Happy Purim everybody.
*Happy Happy Purim MRS PLONY* 🙂 🙂 🙂
That one I actually knew about (my mom gets the credit for that bit of knowledge).
Speaking of Allan Sherman, Uncle Moishy’s
“Good Advice” is based on his “Good Advice.”
Wow Mrs. Plony. But that song came out 2 years ago so obviously the guy must of been Jewish or something..lol
how about the tune to “bas kol” and “im worth it”, sound very “similar”.
Shopping – my mother knows the song from her childhood, and I think her mother a”h did before her. My friend told me that it’s an old black slave song. It’s definitely very old.
Hi, Shopping 613. You mean ‘Jump Down Spin Around’ has been popular lately? The video my son showed me looked old, like a black-and-white TV broadcast.
When I was a kid my folks had probably all of Alan Sherman’s records. (Wish I could listen to them now. Sigh.) JDSA was probably on “My Son the Folk Singer”. The records were old way back then in the ’70s, and the songs must have been a part of the culture for some time before that in order for them to be recognizable for parody purposes.
I always heard that music notation as we know it is a fairly modern invention, so we have no way of knowing how the songs sung/played in antiquity actually sounded. Wouldn’t it be hilarious to find out when Moshiach comes if the music from the Bais HaMikdash sound familiar. But in an unexpected way, like today’s pop songs or something.
Yosselle Rosenblatts “Umipnei Chata’einu” begins the same as the traditional “Chayav Inish Levesumei”
The traditional tune for “Bnei Beischa kevatechila” in Chazaratz HaShatz is the same as the traditional “Keli Tzion…”. I’ve heard this observation attributed to R’ Chaim Brisk.
Interestingly enough, there are two songs which sound very different when sung, but are almost identical.
The chorus of MBD’s Ko Ribon [Moshiach] (Sounds like its composed by Yossi Green, but I never looked it up) is exceedingly similar to the first part of Dedi’s “Ima” [Rotzo] (“There is a time I can remember…”) – just sung much slower. Anybody agree?
Yeedle sings two songs on one album with the same high part:
Track 1, Shiru Lamelech
Track 6, Kulanu EchadSing one while listening to the other, you’ll get a bit of a shock!
Uncle Moishy’s “Torah Torah Torah Torah Torah Tzivo Lonu Moishe” comes from Mozarts 25th symphony.
Countries also take tunes from others.
Hatikva is based on Smetna’s Moldau
The US’s “My country ’tis of thee, sweet land of liberty” uses the British national anthem “G-d save the Queen” (how ironic!)Deaf Man in the Shteibel by Lev Tahor is really Blind man in the Bleachers by some non-Jewish singer
tobs, Lev Tahor sang an a capella version of the song originally put out by country yossie and the shteeble hoppers. Country Yossi made that and many other songs as parodies of the originals.
“Amadeus, Amadeus, A-Amadeus”
(Let’s see who knows what the Jewish one is…)Is this anything to do with the newest Lev Tahor?
Achashverosh, Achashverosh, A..A…chashverosh
(That’s the only one I know – what’s Amadeus? :))
What about לו יהי? Who knows what that’s from?
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