It is the same tune!!!

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  • #613166

    Git Meshige
    Participant

    We were cheated as youngsters, big time. Ba ba black sheep and twinkle twinkle little star are the exact same tune. Just a small kneitch in the middle made us think they were different. What chutzpah the composers of these nursery rhyme had.

    #1225906

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Also the alphabet song.

    #1225907

    sayswho
    Participant

    Mozart composed twinkle twinkle little star when he was 6 years old (or so the story goes). It is also, incidentally, the same tune used for the ABC’s.

    #1225908

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    And also “Twinkle, twinkle, little bat

    How I wonder what you’re at

    Up above the world you fly

    Like a tea-tray in the sky

    Twinkle, twinkle little bat

    How I wonder what you’re at” is the same tune!

    #1225909

    Miriam377
    Participant

    how about from “Sorry I Just Don’t Have the Time”

    Stop and think and look around you?

    taken from Tchaikovsky The Nutcracker Dance of the reed flutes

    #1225910

    zalman
    Participant

    what about yidden & the goyish tune

    what about hashem melech & the goyish version

    #1225912

    Geordie613
    Participant

    One of Dedi’s songs is taken from Abba (a non jewish pop group). The composer is given as ????? ???? ???.

    #1225913

    Shopping613 🌠
    Participant

    We ued to sing this on the bus as kids TTTO: The ABC’s/twinkle/Ba

    (The first two lines)

    I know 3 songs, that have the same tune

    Watch as we sing them together in this room

    Then we’d break off to 3 different groups and each sing the different songs together at the same time to the same tune and finish with:

    I know 3 songs, that have the same tune

    We just sung them together in this room

    #1225914

    Sam2
    Participant

    The Barney theme song and Yankee Doodle

    #1225915

    Good morning! about time everybody realised

    #1225916

    apushatayid
    Participant

    The tune for Dedis “yimloch hashem” is a combination of the tunes for the song take my breath away from the movie dirty dancing and what a feeling from the movie flashdance.

    MBDs shabbos song (on an old collection of yiddish songs) is the tune from the joseph song from the musical joseph and the technicolor dream coat.

    Most of the popular “introductions” at todays weddings are taken note for note from popular classic rock songs.

    Most of the tunes used on country yossi and the shteeble hoppers come from popular country music artists (at least CY owns up to the fact that his songs are parodies).

    #1225917

    Miriam377
    Participant

    Try good advice from uncle moishy – alan sherman

    or how about piamenta’s Ashar Bara – I Come from a land down under by:Men At Work

    or try Gerry Refferty’s Baker Street

    This list can keep going on and on

    or an old camp song Hello by Lionel Richie

    #1225918

    BoruchSchwartz
    Participant

    shopping613

    who determined which kids would be in each of the 3 groups?

    #1225919

    ari-free
    Participant

    “One of Dedi’s songs is taken from Abba (a non jewish pop group). The composer is given as ????? ???? ???. “

    poppa bar abba?

    #1225920

    Shopping613 🌠
    Participant

    It was announced before the song, someone would say, that first third would be ______ the middle _______ and the back _________

    #1225922

    I recently heard some non-Jewish people singing the melody used

    in a Simcha Leiner song – don’t know the title, but it includes

    the lyrics “sasson v’simcha.” Can anyone name the original song?

    #1225923

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    “I recently heard some non-Jewish people singing the melody used

    in a Simcha Leiner song – don’t know the title, but it includes

    the lyrics “sasson v’simcha.” Can anyone name the original song?”

    It’s actually better not to know these things. If you know the original words, and if they are assur, then it becomes assur to listen to the Jewish song if you end up thinking about the original words. So says R’ Matisyahu Salomon, Shlita, in one of his books. Otherwise, it’s not a problem.

    #1225924

    golfer
    Participant

    Geordie, seriously, “niggun mi’beis Abba”??

    I’m the only one ROTFL?

    #1225925

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    Golfer: “Geordie, seriously, “niggun mi’beis Abba”??

    I’m the only one ROTFL?”

    lol, I hadn’t seen that. Sounds like “Shimon & Garfinkel”.

    #1225926

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    If a song uses the tune from another song, it is assur.

    #1225927

    MRS PLONY
    Participant

    The Jeopardy theme song is just “Twinkle Twinkle” with a funky beat.

    #1225928

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    “I recently heard some non-Jewish people singing the melody used

    in a Simcha Leiner song – don’t know the title, but it includes

    the lyrics “sasson v’simcha.” Can anyone name the original song?”

    Down Under by Men at Work..

    #1225929

    FuturePOTUS
    Participant

    In Mordechai Shapiro’s new song Schar Mitzvah, almost everything but the high part is copied from a kol isha non-Jewish song, but I doubt the mods want me naming it.

    #1225930

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    RebYidd23, if a song uses the tune from another song that got its tune from a third song, it’s muttar.

    #1225931

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    2yo thread

    #1225932

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    To the tune of RY’s Twinkle Twinkle Little Bat:

    Twinkle Twinkle little car

    How you drive so very far

    Way way beyond the speed zone

    On the way you knock a cone

    Twinkle Twinkle little car

    How you drive so very far

    #1225933

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    “If a song uses the tune from another song, it is assur”

    According to R’ Matisyahu it’s not. Not unless the other song has bad words and you know the words and you will think of them when you hear the music.

    #1225934

    FuturePOTUS
    Participant

    Nevermind whether it’s permissible, is it hashkafically appropriate?

    #1225935

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    FuturePotus- From what R’ Matisyahu wrote, it didn’t sound like he thought it was a problem. He wrote that it’s only the words of goyish music that is a problem, not the music.

    He then does go on to make some negative comments about certain types of music, but I don’t remember exactly what he wrote (but he definitely didn’t say assur).

    Personally, I don’t see anything wrong with it, but it may be a sensitivity issue and perhaps I’m not on the level to see why it’s a problem. But I do think that it is the kind of thing that you can’t say that someone else is doing something wrong even if you feel that it is not appropriate for yourself.

    #1225936

    FuturePOTUS
    Participant

    lilmod ulelamaid: I hear your point, but I’d like to the following: Me back in high school would have said, and have said as follows: Why would I want to listen to this song (referring to an average Jewish song), which is merely a fake shadow of the original song, when it has a message I don’t really care to hear or relate to, and it’s ripoff of a song that was better overall, more skillfully produced, and sung with someone with a more beautiful voice, and the original has a meaning that I actually find relevant to my everyday life? The answer I found is that there really is no reason that on my level, I should. I may have been immature back then, but I still find it a valid question.

    #1225937

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    A song with the tune copied from another song is assur regardless of the origin and content of the original song.

    #1225938

    HockPurposesOnly
    Participant

    Rebyidd- where’s your source? according to you many of the nigunim from rosh hashana and yom kippur are asur

    #1225939

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    I am not a music expert, However I do know there are only so many combinations of music on an 8 note scale that are possible since there arent that many notes.

    All the combinations have already been done on a 8 note scale. There is no such thing as new music. Its impossible on a 8 note scale (It can be done on a 12 note scale..but few music uses that)

    #1225940

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Same as cheating on a test is assur regardless of whether you’re copying from a tzaddik or a rasha.

    #1225941

    haman
    Participant

    if a jewish composer cant originate he should not imitate

    #1225942

    yichusdik
    Participant

    Music? Pas’t nisht.

    Could lead to dancing. 😉

    Vehamayvin yovin.

    #1225943

    Geordie613
    Participant

    Yes Golfer. Took you two years but finally….

    #1225945

    It’s actually better not to know these things. If you know the original words, and if they are assur, then it becomes assur to listen to the Jewish song if you end up thinking about the original words. So says R’ Matisyahu Salomon, Shlita, in one of his books. Otherwise, it’s not a problem.

    I have no plans to listen to the Simcha Leiner song again.

    Down Under by Men at Work.

    That’s the Piamentas’ “Asher Bara” you’re thinking of.

    #1225946

    SayIDidIt™
    Participant

    High part of @ELIGERSTNER’s “Those Were the Nights” (YBC5) is the same tune as @YehudaCik’s “Music For The Rebbi” (Modim)

    SiDi™

    #1225947

    Why do you need to promote their Twitter accounts? 🙂

    I’m no longer sure the Leiner song copied its melody from

    whatever song I heard – they’re not exactly the same, although

    what I was hearing was a non-singer singing casually and not

    an attempt to record the song in question. Someone elsewhere

    on the Internet (not responding to me) did mention a name, though.

    #1225948

    …Schar Mitzvah, almost everything… is copied from a kol isha non-Jewish song, but I doubt the mods want me naming it.

    Perhaps they’ll let you post the initials of the song and artist

    (note whether singer or group) and the year of the song’s release?

    #1225949

    SayIDidIt™
    Participant

    Why do you need to promote their Twitter accounts? 🙂

    It was a tweet pasted here, so it is in Twitter format.

    SiDi™

    #1225950

    jhonny appleseed
    Participant

    What about music that the jewish and non-jewish versions have the same exact words with 1 or 2 changes but it’s the same thing? are you allowed to listen to that?

    #1225951

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    JA – if there are no bad words in the Jewish version it would be fine, unless there are bad words in the Goyish version, and you know the words.

    #1225952

    If I’m not mistaken, the only music that you are, according to

    halocho (hashkafic/spiritual considerations aside), not allowed

    to listen to is music that is designated for use in ceremonies of

    avodah zarah (church music, for example).

    #1225953

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    Randomex – if it has pritzus, it’s also a problem. Or nibbul peh.

    #1225954

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    What happens when you’re at at store and they play Xmas carols? Can you still shop?

    Didn’t we have a thread on this? Or is Xmas music different than Xmas carols, which are traditionally sung in the church (at least that’s what they show on tv).

    #1225955

    Meno
    Participant

    “The Jeopardy theme song is just “Twinkle Twinkle” with a funky beat.”

    No it’s not

    #1225956

    SayIDidIt™
    Participant

    nibbul peh

    Is that when you chew on your cheek/lips etc.

    SiDi™

    #1225957

    If it has pritzus, it’s also a problem. Or nibbul peh.

    I’d forgotten about that. You wouldn’t be allowed to

    listen to that even in a non-musical context, though.

    (Also, by “nibbul peh” you presumably mean foul language.

    See here: http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/does-foul-language-make-things-assur/page/2 )

    What happens when you’re at at store and they play Xmas carols? Can you still shop?

    Didn’t we have a thread on this? Or is Xmas music different than Xmas carols, which are traditionally sung in the church (at least that’s what they show on tv).

    Carols are also sung at home and at other people’s doorways (“caroling”).

    Secular music made for the season is not in the category we’re

    talking about, although I would wonder about songs praising Yoshke – could songs dedicated to a”z be a problem even if

    they’re not part of its official worship? I don’t know.

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