Learning during Chazoras Hashatz

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  • #1089037

    musser zoger
    Participant

    If he already danced with the Torah…why shouldn’t he be mesameiach with the Torah by learning. Live right and golfer dont mention those who are shmoozing during hakafos.

    #1089038

    Sam2
    Participant

    Twisted: The Birchas Kohanim isn’t L’vatalah if no one is listening.

    #1089039

    mobico
    Participant

    I know that it is not l’Chatchilah to learn during Chazaras ha’Shatz, and yet there are times that I do regularly. These are during the Yamim Nora’im, during the parts of CHH”SH that are not responsive. Also, I am guilty of this during a significant part of Hakafos as well. And here is a wonderful example of Dan l’Chaf Zechus. I am both a Ba’al Korei and a Daf Yomi Magid Shiur. On these days I can find no other time to prepare than these, and therefore I do what I must.

    #1089040

    Leyzer
    Participant

    Of course talking/messing around during CH is worse. That is not in dispute. That still doesn’t make learning during CH correct.

    Hashgacha pratis – I picked up a Sefer tonight in Shul at random – called Lehagid Baboker Chasdecha – among which he discusses this very Inyan, and like many of the above, concludes that it is Halachically problematic.

    He also quotes a Godol who said that he only does it because he is hard of hearing and cannot hear the Shatz.

    Sadly this Godol remains nameless, but IMO the MB would still have an issue with his behaviour because he is setting a bad example for the Olom. That was the whole point of the MB!

    #1089041

    WIY
    Member

    Mobico

    Sorry this may sound harsh but the ends don’t justify the means. I’m not on the level to give a shiur and I respect you for that but at the end of the day you can’t take on responsibilities that you can’t keep. If giving the Daf means that you can’t keep halacha 100% then stop giving the Daf or Reorder your schedule. Its a chillul Hashem for a Maggid shiur not to be listening to chazaras hashatz concentrating and answering properly. If you can get your hands on the sefer Oilas Tomid on tefillah take a look at the section on chazaras hashatz.

    #1089042

    live right
    Member

    mussar zoger: that goes without saying.

    ohhhhh nitpickers.

    #1089043

    Josh31
    Participant

    There is also a heavy obligation upon the leadership of the shul not to drag out the Tefilah such that majority of the full Tzibur finds it very difficult to focus on the davening for such a long period of time.

    Remember, Tzibur (community) includes those spiritually energized and those not spiritually turned on.

    The 368 “maneh” measures of the Ketores (incense burnt in the Temple) include the 9 highly energized cinnamon and the 70 measures of much less spiritually energized galbanum.

    When I was in Kol Torah 1973-4, my Rebbe was known for very long Shemonah Esrai. But when he had to lead the davening later that year, his silent Shemonah Esrai’s were much shorter, to avoid burdening the Tzibur.

    #1089044

    Sam2
    Participant

    WIY: You are absolutely wrong. In fact, if he literally had zero extra time, he should drop Chazaras HaShatz before dropping the Shiur. An Osek B’tzarchei HaTzibbor is Pattur from Tefillah completely, let alone T’fillah B’Tzibbur.

    #1089045

    WIY
    Member

    Sam2

    If he had zero extra time and if nobody else can give the shiur.

    #1089046

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    “When my Rav shlita was discussing shnayim mikra recently, he said in the name of R’ Chaim Kanievsky Shlita, that being maaver sidrah during chazaras hasshatz is a mitzvah habaa biaveira. I have no source for this, other than his word.”

    The source is Orchos Yosher chapter Tefilla Ose 28:

    ?????? ?? ???? ????? ???? ???? ???? ????? ?? ??

    ??? ???? ??? ?? ???? ???? ??? ???? ???? ??? ????? ???? ?????

    ???? (??? ????? ??? ??) ????? ??? ?? ????? ????? ????? ?? ????

    ????? ????? ????? ?? ??? ??? ???? ???? ???? ???? ???? ?????? (??? ???? ??? ?? ??? ??? ????? ??? ?????? ??? ???? ???? ???? ??? ??? ????? ??????? ??????? ??)?

    #1089047

    mik5
    Participant

    I see a ???? ?????? in the Mishna Berurah (???? ??”?, ?”? ?”?) that it is not permitted to learn during ???? ??”?. I constantly notice chashuvah men and numerous Yeshiva Bochurim reading from a sefer during it. Does anyone out there know of a heter? If not, how would you handle it?

    What makes them “chashuv”? They are sinners.

    Ben Olam Haba of Lakewood writes:

    The Shulchan Aruch HaRav Siman 124:6 writes that people who learn or say other Tachanunim (such as tehilim) during Chazaras HaShatz should be chastised for doing so as what they are doing is not proper. (!)

    See also Igros Moshe Orach Chaim Vol. 4 Siman 19 that this is all the more so when actually in a small minyan where there may not be 9 people answering Amen.

    #1089048

    mik5
    Participant

    HOWEVER… Rabbi Eliezer Wenger zatzal (a Lubavitcher Hasid) wrote as follows:

    B’er Haitev in Siman 124:4

    quotes an opinion that states that it is not necessary to protest against

    anyone that is learning or saying Tachanun [penitential prayers] during the

    repeetition of the Amidah provided that they concentrate by the end of each

    of the blessings to answer Amen; however, there are those that disagree and

    disallow it totally.

    I find it interesting that the Lubavitcher would even mention the opinion that says not to protest, when the “Alter Rebbe” writes the exact opposite (see my previous comment).

    #1089049

    Pro-vaxxer
    Participant

    Harav Chaim Kanievsky says it’s completely assur obviously if R’ Chaim who is the greatest person alive today says that then that means that he reached that without learning during chazaras hashatz so if that’s the case we should definitely not be learning during chazaras hashatz

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