Mechitza at Har Sinai?

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  • #612887

    Was there a mechitza at Har Sinai?

    #1017847

    No.The women were not at har sinai because they are not Jewish.

    #1017848
    sm29
    Participant

    lol everyone was there

    #1017849
    charliehall
    Participant

    There wasn’t even a mechitzah in the Mishkan, or the First Temple, nor the Second Temple until late in its history and even then only for the festival of Sukkot (and it wasn’t a mechitzah, it was a balcony).

    #1017850

    They were on such a high level there was probably no chashash of kalus Rosh, so they didn’t need a mechitzah.

    #1017851

    RF-That is what Rav Avigdor Miller says about the tu b’av and the women dancing. The men only watched with the purest intents to see which woman would help them serve hashem the best.

    I’m not sure I buy it.

    #1017854

    baruch shekeivanti. I understand your skepticism though, since such a tayna is difficult to support.

    #1017855

    I understand your skepticism though, since such a tayna is difficult to support.

    I appreciate the empathy, instead of saying like everybody else here would “You are crum. You have no emunas chachomim. You’re an apikores” and such.

    #1017856
    AZOI.IS
    Participant

    There might not have been a Mechitzah at Har Sinai but there were definitely Shtreimlach and Spudiks. I saw pictures.

    #1017857
    Sam2
    Participant

    RF: Actually, it’s entirely untenable. We have so many Takanos and Dinim D’rabannan to avoid even a smidge of Pritzus because people are so easily Nichshal. How is it Shayach to say they were also M’taken something on the assumption that everyone were Tzadikim Gemurim.

    #1017858

    ‘scuse my flower. If Rabbi Miller ??”? said it, I’m not sure you’re the one to argue.

    And RationalFrummie, (VERY RATIONAL), not that you need my humble input, to me it sounds like the correct answer.

    The Gemarrah, in a lot of places alludes to the fact that at Matan Torah there was ???? ????? ??? ?????, complete purity of the mind and thoughts. So at that conjuncture there was no need for such to be instituted.

    Not so when ANSHEI K’NESES HAGEDOLAH felt the need to institute it – and backed their innovation by pesukim. So no, there’s no reason to mock our tradition of mechitzos nowadays. No – society has not improved since.

    #1017860
    MachaaMaker
    Member

    No the women weren’t invited. Kvodeh bas malkeh pnima

    #1017861
    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    Why do you assume they stood close enough to need one?

    #1017862
    Avram in MD
    Participant

    I agree with HaLeiVi. Rashi’s comment in parshas Yisro, ko somar l’veis Yaakov (i.e., speak gently to the women) v’sageid livnei Yisroel (i.e., harsh – punishments and details to the men) would seem to make sense if the women and men were standing separately at the mountain, out of earshot.

    #1017863
    apushatayid
    Participant

    Why didnt anyone ask if the yidden left mitzrayim men in front women in the back or if there was a mechitza on the bus. Why didnt anyone ask if there were separate entrances to the yam suf? Why is this suddenly a question at this point in time?

    #1017864

    there were separate buses everyone knows that

    #1017865
    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    At least by the Shira we know they were separate.

    #1017866

    Why are you getting all worked up about it?

    #1017867
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Why are you getting worked up about their getting worked up about it?

    #1017868
    Logician
    Participant

    Sam2 – we know that in mitzrayim there was only one story of znus…

    #1017869

    When did I get worked up?

    #1017870
    Sam2
    Participant

    Logician: It’s a long way from Mitrayim to late Bayis Sheni. Also, there’s only one case of a Jewish woman being M’zanah with a Mitri. We have no idea how many Jewish men were M’zaneh with Mitzriyos.

    #1017871
    nishtdayngesheft
    Participant

    ??”?: ???? ?????. ?????? ????

    {??}??????????? ?????????? ?????? ????????? ???????????? ??????? ???????????????? ?????????????

    #1017872
    Sam2
    Participant

    Nisht: … That’s not what it means. And you probably know that.

    #1017873
    nishtdayngesheft
    Participant

    I know what it means, however it clearly indicates that they had to attain a specific level of kedusha. Once they were at such a level and specifically relating to such matters, it was likely almost a moot issue. VDAL

    #1017874
    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    Sam, Logician is quoting Chazal. Medrash Rabbah, Emor 35:

    ?? ???? ???, ??? ?? ????: ????? ?’ ????? ????? ????? ??????:

    ??? ??? ?? ???,

    ??? ?????,

    ??? ???? ???? ???,

    ??? ???? ?????? ??? ??? ???? ?????.

    ?? ??? ?? ???, ????? ?????? ?????, ????? ?????? ?????.

    ?? ??? ????? ?????? ????, ??? ?????? ???????, ??? ????? ?????, ??? ??????? ????????.

    ?? ??? ?? ?????, ???? ???? (?????? ??): ???? ????? ???? ????? ?????. ???? (???? ?): ?????? ???? ?????? ???? ?????.

    ????? (?????? ??): ?? ?? ????? ????? ????? ?????.

    ??? ???? ???? ???, ????? (???? ??): ??? ?? ????? ???. ??? ???? ???? ???? ????? ???? ?? ?”? ??? ??? ????? ??? ?? ?????.

    ??? ???? ??? ??? ???? ?????, ??? ?? ???? ??, ??? ???? ?????? ?????, ?????: (????? ??): ??? ??? ?????? ?? ???? ???? ??.

    #1017876
    Sam2
    Participant

    nisht: It says nothing about a level of Kedushah. It’s that we (the women) had to be Tahor in order to receive the Torah and if they were with their husbands they could have become Tamei up to 3 days later.

    #1017877
    Logician
    Participant

    Sorry Sam, somehow thought you were referencing Matan Torah.

    I thought you were going to say that, so was going to look up the quote as I remembered it… but Haleivi did it for me (thanks).

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