March 7, 2012 5:21 pm at 5:21 pm #869074
Josh31: For all our disputes with ZeesKite, I am convinced that she has been thru Shas at least once, and probably twice. Her knowledge is not based upon tidbits that can be picked up on the internet. And based upon another posting in YWN, her knowledge is not just in the area of “Fire & Brimstone”.
Are you suggesting that perhaps “she” is not a she?March 7, 2012 6:37 pm at 6:37 pm #869075
MSS -“Are you suggesting that perhaps “she” is not a she?”
Here’s a great Purim line -Wake up and smell the coffee (Joe)!
😉March 7, 2012 6:52 pm at 6:52 pm #869076
800 Kilobear -“The big-time creeps like Mondrowitz, Kolko, Lebovits, Weingarten, Cyprys, Kramer, Lanner etc”
You do a diservice to the community by listing these guys. Because now people will think -“Oh it’s only a few.”
The reality is -it might even be an epidemic. You don’t know how many are still in Chinuch and are well protected!
I know at least two current Menhalim that have reliable accusations against them. One I know because a victim told me directly!
Frum Yidden are very much in denial about this.
De -nile is not just the name of a river in Egypt!
You have bloggers on this site that can’t even admit that these molesters have a Din of Reshayim and it’s a Mitzva to hate them!March 7, 2012 6:54 pm at 6:54 pm #869077
Seems that this thread took a turn, to discuss whether zeeskiet is another woman in Kollel or a quiet Talmid Chochom. He writes if you would know him in real life….March 7, 2012 7:48 pm at 7:48 pm #869078
Back in the days of Sanhedrin, what was the acts & attitudes towards those physical melderers? I’m not saying “these emotional or psychological merderers”. Everyone here just steps up & says what ever their “Daas Am Ha’aretz” tells them with a free will, thinking , well, no one knows who I am anyway so let me release my feelings freely.
The altimate truth is ONLY FROM TORAH. The Daas Torah will be the only respected opinion, ??? ???? ??? ????. Let’s try to focus on what does the Torah teach & tell us. Who is a living existing shame to Hashem & his Torah, put aside our personal emotional pain.
I also notice, people don’t have the patients to read more then just a few words from someone else, too quick, just miss the actual point.March 7, 2012 7:53 pm at 7:53 pm #869079
That Big Bear AgainMember
I know of a menahel who is suffering to no end because of a false accusation. I hate his accuser, who is a true rosho that would have been a drug addict on the streets had it not been for this menahel. Then there is Joe diMaggio or whatever Deutsch’s new name is – that one robbed his own father to say nothing of making up tall tales about an unproven assault in the mikveh to justify his self-destructive behavior.
It is like the agunah “epidemic.” While one unjustly chained agunah is too many, so is one faker who is just trying to ruin her ex-husband for her own financial gain.
Those whom I listed are reshoim gemurim, on the same level as Solomon Dwek. Others whose offenses are not as numerous or as severe may be baalei tayva who are truly as pitiable as their victims. For the first, I have an answer but it isn’t legal. For the second, I don’t have an answer.March 7, 2012 8:20 pm at 8:20 pm #869080
No one has sullied the Orthodox community’s reputation, as much as the ill molesters and possibly even worse, those who are “healthy”??? who protect them and cover for them.
If theres one thing that would unify all Jews- OTDers, the Charedi public, and everyone in between, is setting these people on fire and watching in unity as they writhe in pain. If not the above, because our government wouldnt allow it, at least all Jews of all backgrounds insisting with one voice that perps and those who covered for them should rot in prison with no hope of release.
If we continue to look away their sins, our holiness is full of holes, and we deserve all the hate the OTDers throw our way.March 8, 2012 3:03 am at 3:03 am #869081
peacefull -“Who is a living existing shame to Hashem & his Torah, put aside our personal emotional pain.”
I’m not really sure what your point is because you aren’t so coherent. Yes s/o who is a molester is an existing shame to Hashem whether you believe it or not. To molest others is a constant Chilul Hashem since 10 Jews most probably know about it.
And your part about Daas Torah -I’m not quite sure what you mean, but are you the type that needs a Rabbi to tell you -you can’t eat that HAMburger?March 8, 2012 3:11 am at 3:11 am #869082
800 Kilobear -“For the second, I don’t have an answer.”
Well I do. The first and foremost is to remove them away from children. If they are still a principal -then this hasn’t been done. After that we can discuss what else should be done.
The Frum community has thus far failed their children.
And standing on soap boxes screaming about internet doesn’t resolve you from stopping molesters. Lo Saamod Al Dam Reicha!March 8, 2012 2:56 pm at 2:56 pm #869083
This argument is going nowhere. Those who believe the Torah commands us to hate this meshumedes rasha DF, will not be convinced by those who think an abuser is just as bad as her. And those who can’t bring themselves to hate a woman even if the Torah commands us to, will not stop mixing in irrelevant comparisons to abusers.March 8, 2012 3:53 pm at 3:53 pm #869084
” will not stop mixing in irrelevant comparisons to abusers”.
Irrelevant, my foot!
Those who have any connection to mental health professionals dealing with OTDers, say that OTD guys are more often than not victims of molestation, and make up the bulk of the OTD movers and shakers in that despicable organization where they gather.
The molesters almost bred the OTD movement! They are DF’s company in hate of the Frum community, and spurred her and others on to the OTD movement.
In Denial (De Nile)….or overdrunk in Purim…March 8, 2012 8:11 pm at 8:11 pm #869086
That Big Bear AgainMember
1) I consider any molestor or anyone with said tayvas who remains in chinuch or in any other mentoring or “helping” role around young people (ie a pediatrician, choir leader etc) to be a roidef who deserves all four of the arba misois beis din. This is the case even if he leaves chinuch after more than one violation or a clear realization that he has a tayva and does not agree to community supervised treatment and payment of damages to his victims.
2) The sad cases are those few who are unfairly accused, and an occasional camp counselor who somehow falls victim to a tayva once, and then goes on to a normal life. As far as the first are concerned, whoever accuses them should pay restitution and be named and shamed just as a molester should. The second need evaluation and treatment somehow, and to make sure their victim is taken care of, without overly harsh punishment.
As for what goes on in that despicable organization, some is true but some stories come about because oisvorf 1 who is embellishing the truth convinces oisvorfke 2, who is disturbed, to make up a story out of thin air. Note in my earlier post that I have had experience with troubled kids making up stories. The two I mentioned were only two out of four – the other 2 (one an m. zochor fantasy and the other against someone whom I happened to know) were so ridiculous that I warned the kids of very dire consequences if they ever shared their nonsense with anyone else.
And with this I leave you until next Tu BiShvat. (Please block me – sorry to always ask for this but I am not in the world’s most secure location and someone could hack my account here if I leave it dormant).March 9, 2012 3:21 pm at 3:21 pm #869087
Mods -Please ok my post above. Thanks.March 12, 2012 5:09 pm at 5:09 pm #869089
avhaben -“This argument is going nowhere. Those who believe the Torah commands us to hate this meshumedes rasha DF, will not be convinced by those who think an abuser is just as bad as her.”
Sorry, I don’t think molesters are just as bad -I think they are worse.
DF will not cause anyone to go OTD, unless they are going that way anyway.
A molester will cause many people to go OTD!
Also, a molester causes other Frum Jews to sin because some end up protecting them. People who protect molesters are probably Oiver – Lo Saamod & Messaya L’day Aveira!March 12, 2012 6:52 pm at 6:52 pm #869090
Health: Like +100!March 12, 2012 7:51 pm at 7:51 pm #869091
Oh yeah, I remember this thread!April 2, 2012 7:27 pm at 7:27 pm #869092
A Woman Outside BrooklynParticipant
Having read the book, what I find interesting is that most of the highly negative stuff isn’t from the book itself, but from her publicity tour. Clearly she’s OTD, and harbors a lot of bitterness towards her upbringing, but clearly she had the highest of regard for the grandparents who raised her. And no where does she say that the girls only had the equivalent of 4th grade education. In fact, she got A’s in her high school English classes.April 19, 2012 3:38 pm at 3:38 pm #869093
There are now two more copycats of Feldman (Berkovits) & Reich.
Check out Sundays Star Ledger. They have an org. called “Unchained”.
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