July 19, 2009 3:03 pm at 3:03 pm #590054
Is there any concerns regarding opening a (12 oz.) aluminum can of soda on Shabbos and/or Yom Tov?July 19, 2009 5:31 pm at 5:31 pm #650601d aMember
ASK A RAV! The CR is a good place for OPINION not HALACHAJuly 19, 2009 6:40 pm at 6:40 pm #650604oomisParticipant
These are the opinions that I have received.
I don’t do it, though I was told that if you pour out the entire contents immediately and throw away the can, it is muttar. otherwise it becomes a kli, and you may not make a new kli on Shabbos. It’s so much easier (and cheaper) to either open a soda bottle, or drink water. Personally, my Shabbos drink of choice (really choshuv to me) is a large bottle of ice-cold Diet Peach Snapple. There is nothing better, IMO.July 19, 2009 7:42 pm at 7:42 pm #650605JayMatt19Participant
I decided to see what R’ Falk from Gateshead had to say on the subject. I was quite surprised with the psak. This is taken from his sefer Zachor V’Shamor (almost verbatim).
Opening Beer Cans
To open a beer can (that has a pull ring on the top, which when pulled cuts a neat oval shaped opening into the top of the can) is not Koreya (ripping) since this melacha does not apply to stiff items. Mechatech (cutting into shape) is also not involved because Mechatech only applies when one is changing the overall size or shape of the item, whereas to cut a small hole into an item which does not change its overall shape, is not considered Mechatech.
However, large beer cans are not emptied in one go, as one usually stores part of the drink inside them for later use. To open them is therefore considered as making a container, according to the poskim who maintain that if an opened packet or can is used to store part of the contents it is considered a kli (a container).
The poskim who maintain that this is not considered as making a container would not forbid the opening of such a can, although this appears to involve the making of a Pesach (opening). This is because the beer can has a comparatively small hole, and it is therefore unlikely that a person will pour any of the liquid back into the can. Due to this some people are lenient, and open these cans in the normal manner on Shabbos.
Small beer cans are in a somewhat more favorable position than large ones because they contain no more than one glassful of drink and it is common to pour out the complete contents of the can immediately after opening it. When this is the case, the can serves no function of storage whatsoever and according to all opinions, Maake B’Patish would not be involved. However, it is also common to drink from such cans with a straw, which means that the opened can stores the beer until it is drunk. When this is the case, there is no advantage in the smaller cans over the larger ones.
***JayMatt19 note – at a different point, R’ Falk mentioned that the (according to the ones who hold the large cans would be assur), this is due to the “normal usage”. Therefore even if you intend on pouring out the entire contents immediately, it would nevertheless still be forbidden by these authorities. ***July 19, 2009 9:16 pm at 9:16 pm #650606d aMember
oomis1105: Diet? I love peach, kiwi strawberry and apple, BUT NOT DIET!!!July 19, 2009 11:29 pm at 11:29 pm #650607rabbiofberlinParticipant
darchei noam- first, there is a material difference between shabbos and yom tov. I suppose that on yom tov it is muttor accordign to all poskim-as it is clealry oichel nefesh.
as far as shabbos- this a part of a larger quuestion of opening cans on shabbos. I remember that years ago, the Tselemer rov zz’l (big possek in Williasmburg after the war)allowed to open cans (sardines, beans, etc)as long as you threw away the can and never used it. Additionally, if it was a small can (such as tuna or sardines)then it weould never become a kli anyway, so there was an additional reason for the hetter.Some poskim had problems with large cans as they could be used afterwards (for storage,even cooking) and advised to make a small hole in the UNDERSIDE of the can before opening it up and in this way, there was no possibiliy of making a kli.
I don’t understand the reasoning of those poskim who say that, because you drink from the can, it is considered a kli. if this is the reasoning, then any can or container is a kli even BEFORE you open it up.Anyway- i welcome any views on this.July 19, 2009 11:43 pm at 11:43 pm #650608
Yasher Koach for that quote. What about the psak did you find surprising?
Also, not being overly familiar with cans of beer… are they essentially the same status as a 12 oz. aluminum can of soda?July 20, 2009 12:16 am at 12:16 am #650609
What was the Tselemer Rov ZT’L’s bottom-line psak, as it applies to cans of soda (and/or beer) on Shabbos?July 20, 2009 3:20 am at 3:20 am #650610whatshaichesMember
Please see link below from Torah.org from Rabbi Neustadt who talks about it in his weekly Halacha sheet:
Hope this helpsJuly 20, 2009 4:57 am at 4:57 am #650611oomisParticipant
“oomis1105: Diet? I love peach, kiwi strawberry and apple, BUT NOT DIET!!! “
Da, many years ago I used to drink regular peach snapple, and found it to be excessively sweet, so I would cut it almost 50-50 with cold water. The DIET peach snapple is just the right amount of sweetness, and as an FYI, the large containers taste a little different (and better) than a 12 0z. bottle, for some reason which I cannot fathom.July 20, 2009 8:54 am at 8:54 am #650612JayMatt19Participant
The small cans are somewhere in the range of 12oz. Larger ones will be over 40oz.
>>darchei noam- first, there is a material difference between shabbos and yom tov. I suppose that on yom tov it is muttor accordign to all poskim-as it is clealry oichel nefesh.<<
This is a very dangerous statement. Not all melachos are allowed on Yom Tov due to Ochel Nefesh. Kotzer (harvesting), Ma’amar (bundling the harvested produce), Dash (threshing and squeezing out juice) Zoreh (winnowing), Tzad (hunting) are all forbidden eventhough they could be justified as ochel nefesh.
Additionally, Borrer (selecting), Tochen (grinding) and Meraked (sifting) are melachos which will be allowed on yom tov for ochel nefesh only if certain conditions are met.July 20, 2009 1:22 pm at 1:22 pm #650613SJSinNYCMember
Ames, for soda bottles, there are already do differnt “keilim” – as long as you don’t tear the cap along the perforation, its fine. At least, that is what I was told. I can open the bottle without doing that just fine. Its not hard in the slightest.
I open cans on Shabbos, I just don’t use it as a storage container (so I can drink from it, but don’t put it in the fridge or something). When I got married, my husband doesn’t open cans, but we asked and I was allowed to continue opening them. I forgot the Rabbi’s reasoning, so I can’t really comment on it. But, it is convenient…July 20, 2009 2:46 pm at 2:46 pm #650614cherrybimParticipant
Bottom line is: for those whose minhag it is TO open cans and bottles on shabbos; it’s mutter. And for those whose minhag it is NOT to open cans and bottles on shabbos; it’s assur.July 20, 2009 3:54 pm at 3:54 pm #650615
cherrybim: It isn’t matter of “minhug” but rather “halacha”, and how ones Rav interprets halacha.
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