Shaitle Fraud Chillul Hashem Video: Sha'ar haTumah haChamishim

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  • #718112

    wanderingchana
    Participant

    …but there are still three opinions.

    #718114

    aries2756
    Participant

    Oomis, how would the housekeeper know it was a mistake? Only the owner of the item would know it is a mistake! That’s my point. The housekeeper’s job was to do the laundry as it was given to her and NOT to ask questions. The laundress’ job was to do the laundry as it was given to her and not to ask questions. It is the customer’s responsibility to check the bag before they drop it off. The onus is on the customer to make sure they drop off only items that can be washed, not hand wash items and not dry clean items, etc. It is not the responsibility of the laundress to check the labels of any item that is the responsibility of the customer. Unfortunately even our housekeepers are not smart enough to read labels and if our kids are stupid enough not to hang up their suits and it finds its way into the laundry room, their suits wind up getting washed and not getting sent to the cleaners! As much as we get angry at the housekeeper because she should have known better not to wash a suit or a good pair of pants, the kids should have known to hang it up and not drop it on the floor.

    #718122

    oomis
    Participant

    I just saw a video of Georgie, the wigmaker who actually made this custom wig. She asserts it was indeed worth 3K after it was made, custom colored, highlighted, cut, and styled, and that the couple in court are ehrliche people who were not trying to commit a fraud. She further states that she believes the judge might have called the other store by the Georgie name (which belongs to her ex, though she didn’t specify anythign regarding him). Her main thought was that this was terrible loshon hara against innocent people, and that klal Yisroel needs to help each other, not look to spread rumors and lies. She’s right. it’s none of our business how much money other people spend on what they purchase, even if we think it’s frivolous. That was not what this case was about. It was about causing damage to someone’s property. Period.

    #718123

    aries2756
    Participant

    I agree with the points you brought up. It has nothing to do with how much the sheitel cost. And I feel bad that Georgie was brought into it and she seemed strained on the video. I don’t feel R’ Hoffman should have gotten involved in this. I think he is only adding more fuel to the fire because although he thinks he answered all the questions he only answered the ones HE wanted to but opened it up for more questions because those that others wanted answered were not answered.

    It would have been best had he not gotten involved and just let the entire incident just die down slowly.

    #718124

    Aishes Chayil
    Participant

    OOMIS,

    I saw that same interview and sad to say, it seemd like a sloppy cover up. She fumbled so many times, I’m surpirsed she was courageous enough to speak out.

    1.

    She was in France according to her on Succos. This happened in November.

    2.H had nothin g to wear so she had to make a rush sheitel. what happened to the fall??

    3. ‘H eide is my favorite customer’ ugh, pleassssse. She only bought one sheitel there!!!

    This interview made it ten times worst, and YES it is OUR business if our fellow Jews create such a ruckus on national televesion which can seriously harm our relationship with the outside wordld!!

    #718125

    Jose
    Member

    AC,

    I am glad that you feel comfortable remaining anonymous while you call someone who has placed their reputation on the line publicly a liar.

    Perhaops you should publicly state here your name, number and address while you do.

    Georgie’s info is all well known. Because of that she has a chezkas kashrus and ne’emanus that you do not have, nor apparently, deserve.

    #718126

    apushatayid
    Participant

    STILL talking about a WB production?

    #718127

    cherrybim
    Participant

    Jose, you could be one of the TMB clones.

    #718128

    Aishes Chayil
    Participant

    jose,

    I challenge to identify yourself as well!

    You dont know me, so you have no knowledge on whether or not I have a Ch’Kashrus.

    One thing is sure,if you think its a mitzvah to turn a bad situation into something worst, instead of letting the story die down, your sadly mistaken.

    There is no way G is going to go public and condemn these people, and I applaud her for that. However, to give the impression that we yidden always have to cover up anything sisnister that emerges from one of our own, is a bigger Chillul Hashem than the actual crime.

    I suggest you watch the interview again. If you still feel comfortable about it, I suggest its something you should seriously think about!

    #718129

    Jose
    Member

    AC,

    If I challenged you and you were identified, you would have a legitimate claim. However, as long as you remain anonymous, there is no reason I should ID myself. However, Georgie is identified and thus, it would only be fair for you to identify yourself if you are saying she is lying.

    Assuming that what M&H is saying is the truth, and there is now corroborating testimony, why should they not have people speak up for them? Should they stay idly by?

    So many of their detractors sought proof because they did not protest sufficiently or that Georgie did not corroborate their claim.

    Well now there is both and that is proof that they are lying? Darned if you do and darned if you don’t.

    Why must you cling to the notion that they are lying and in the wrong? Does it make you feel good about yourself? Does it support one of your biases?

    Your attitude speaks volumes about you.

    Much self introspection is called for.

    True chillul hashem is the attitude that “these jews must be lying” and shouting about it that is done by others who allege that they themselves are religious jews.

    #718130

    Aishes Chayil
    Participant

    J,

    If G already took the decision to talk , she had no choice but to make the best of it. As she continued to say during the interview, ‘We have to stand by eachother and help one another ‘(gosh, I hope not too many people read between the lines there)

    One MUST DAN LECAFF ZECHUS AT ALL TIMES. However, we cannot be naive either.

    They said they wanted to sue.. When that happens, and they succeed, my opinion might change.

    Until then my friend, don’t fault my attitude for making logical observations which most people in the frum community seem to agree with.

    If I were you, I would use that vigor and stamina to perhaps befriend H and M. You might be able to give them some guidance and encourage them to get back on track, so that they can reabilitate their reputation.

    #718131

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Fine! I’ll identify myself.

    I am Judge Millian.

    #718132

    Homeowner
    Member

    Another observation for the community on this website: At various times (e.g. 1:19 and 2:59) we hear Georgie’s cell phone go off. I recognized the music in her ringtone. It’s Scott Joplin’s “The Entertainer.” This was the theme of the Paul Newman–Robert Redford movie “The Sting,” a film about [drum roll] con artists!

    Georgie should perhaps choose something less revealing, I don’t know, maybe Lady GaGa’s “Poker Face.” LOL.

    #718133

    Ofcourse
    Member

    I dont believe for one minute that Georgie would lower herself to lie for ANY customer, best or not best. The employees must/would have overheard many conversations during the time that Heidi discovered that her wig was irrepairably damaged. Her employees know the truth, she could be found out easily! Many others know the inside story, from close-up, as well. What would Georgie gain by defending Heidi (and not only defending her, but defending her so publicly)? I think for anyone of Georgie’s public persona to feel there’$ value in lieing in public, theyd have to be getting way more than the amount in question, $3,000. Nonsense!

    #718134

    aries2756
    Participant

    I don’t believe that Georgie out and out lied but she side stepped issues and questions and didn’t explain things that most people wanted or needed explained. It was clear that both she and R’ Hoffman were careful to avoid certain areas and even the questions she did answer she was very careful and guarded with her answers. Most of them are more general than specific. When she was asked how she knew this particular piece was hers, or it was the one she had made for Heidi in May which would match the receipt, she started to explain how the hairs shafts open and attach to each other and that’s how it gets clumped together. It is clear how the video was staged for the benefit of the couple and not necessarily to tell the truth. It tells the truth that R’ Hoffman wants to tell, not necessarily what is the entire truth about the entire issue.

    Her son too was very careful with the wording he used in his email. He really didn’t commit to anything. As far as other employees are concerned, I am quite sure that somewhere down the line, the truth will come out, because someone is going to talk to someone and everything is going to come spilling out. Then what R’ H will write an article about not listening to the gossip of Georgie’s staff, who are you going to believe, yada, yada, yada….

    #718135

    Ofcourse
    Member

    aries2756

    “Then what R’ H will write an article about not listening to the gossip of Georgie’s staff, who are you going to believe, yada, yada, yada….”

    Sidestep shmidestep, either the wig was a $3,000 Georgie custom or it wasnt. Either there was only one purchased or two. Georgie didnt have to answer questions like what she does in France! I dont think Georgie is that desperate for a couple of thousands that she’d dirty herself to protect liars in public. I think the couple was truthful, and she came to their defense.

    Cute how you’ve figured it all out (including everyone’s level of honesty) with certainty- the past, the present and the future. Where do you get your expertise in determination of lieing?

    #718136

    Aishes Chayil
    Participant

    ‘Sidestep shmidestep, either the wig was a $3,000 Georgie custom or it wasnt’

    Actually, when G was asked how much the sheitel costed, she started to make cheshbonos, ‘with highlighting, cutting etc, aoubt 3 k’

    If there was a receipt, the answer should have been an undisputed, qualified, 3000 dollars.

    #718137

    flowers
    Participant

    >>I saw that same interview and sad to say, it seemd like a sloppy cover up. She fumbled so many times, I’m surpirsed she was courageous enough to speak out.<<

    I dont think she fumbled at all. And if it was me speaking even about just the weather, knowing I was on camera, I would have fumbled.

    >>1.She was in France according to her on Succos. This happened in November.<<

    So what? Who says she wasn’t still in France whenever this court case happened? and how do you know when the case happened?

    >>2.H had nothin g to wear so she had to make a rush sheitel. what happened to the fall??<<

    People do not wear their fall for all occassions. For example Shabbos, Yom Tov and chasunahs, they won’t wear one. I dont know when the sheitel got ruined, but perhaps it was before the yomim tovim that she needed a regular sheitel? Regardless, she may still have needed a regular sheitel

    >>3. ‘H eide is my favorite customer’ ugh, pleassssse. She only bought one sheitel there!!!<<

    So what? One can go to Gerogies also to have the wig washed and set. She’s wearing a wig for ten years. How do you know she hasn’t been going to her for 10 years?

    >>This interview made it ten times worst,<<

    I dont think so. I think it makes it ten times better. At least puts a doubt in a persons mind, that perhaps Heidi isn’t guilty at all.

    >>and YES it is OUR business if our fellow Jews create such a ruckus on national televesion which can seriously harm our relationship with the outside wordld!! <<

    No, it is NOT. And what do you think you’re doing, Ms High and Mighty? Do you think your posts on a web site about how guilty she definately is is a kiddush Hashem? In fact, YOU are making this chillul Hashem a whole lot worse.

    And your questions are not logical. You are looking for holes to make heidi look guilty. And I’m sure you can find a 100 more questions to “prove” her guilt.

    #718138

    Ofcourse
    Member

    AC, “If there was a receipt, the answer should have been an undisputed, qualified, 3000 dollars”.

    What did she say- that the wig in question costed $500 with extras, bringing the total to $3,000?

    Im just guessing, perhaps she felt a little uncomfortable admitting to the public that she’s selling $3,000 wigs (thinking IRS). Let only those who have not commited the tiniest of sins in that area, judge….

    #718139

    aries2756
    Participant

    OC, I really hate going through this again, but if you insist…If you want to start off with who is qualified to say who is lying let’s start with Heidi who started of by saying that the laundress was lying.

    Then lets talk about the fact that R’ Hoffman never verified that Heidi’s child put the wig in the bag, nor did he verify the age of the child who would do such a thing. Which is the root of the entire fiasco. So was that a lie? Isn’t it possible that Mendi himself threw it in by accident just grabbing the laundry to take with him on his way to work?

    Then there is the question of her saying there are only 2 wigs, the one she is wearing and the fall, when clearly there are 3. Why didn’t she immediately say, that she had to replace the ruined wig with the one on her head. The Judge did ask her about the wig on her head and she had ample opportunity to say that she had to replace the mangled wig so Georgie made up this wig for her in record time. That was the perfect opportunity to speak about it. Doesn’t it seem odd to you that she didn’t mention it at that time?

    Then Heidi said she took it to 3 sheitel Machers who all said the wig is ruined but did not produce one slip of paper for proof. If she bought the wig from Georgie and she showed it to Georgie, and Georgie had such rachmonus on her that she made up a wig for her in 24 hours, why on earth would she go to 2 other sheitel machers for other opinions. So who was lying here?

    Why would Heidi have the receipt from the ruined wig in May but not have the receipt from the replacement wig which she just got to show the judge. Did she purposely choose to hide it from the judge because it didn’t cost as much as the one in May? That is called “purposeful omission” which is also a lie.

    I really don’t want to go on. They didn’t come prepared to court because they didn’t have the proof to back up the lies they were telling in court. And people have the nerve to say the Judge is lying which is such outright chutzpah it is beyond ridiculous. Why should the judge lie.

    H&M had a valid claim even if it was their fault and they should never have put the wig in the laundry bag. Without the drama and without the lies, they had a valid claim that the laundry ruined their wig. “Your honor, the wig accidentally got in with the laundry and it is ruined”. End of the claim. Answer the judge’s questions. Don’t lie about the laundress, don’t try to make them out to be liars. Say you didn’t understand them on the phone, or you were so upset that your wig was missing you didn’t hear them properly or you were crying and maybe she didn’t hear you clearly say don’t wash. But don’t make up stories about them.

    Had they been truthful and not lied to the judge, the judge would not have done investigation on her own and would not have found them to be liars, and would probably have judged in their favor. That’s it. Lies will bring you down. And the more that everyone especially R’ Hoffman try to cover it up, the more it will bring them down.

    I would again suggest to R’ Hoffman to leave it alone and think of the kids who will probably going through a bit of gehenom because of their parents and just let it die down.

    I would still ask the moderators to delete the whole thread because of the kids. Enough is enough. But then good ole R’ H had to write about it in the 5T paper.

    #718140

    Aishes Chayil
    Participant

    ‘And if it was me speaking even about just the weather, knowing I was on camera, I would have fumbled. ‘

    Then fumble all you want in front of the camera if you want to TALK ABOUT THE WEATHER! Stay away from it though ,when someone elses reputation is at stake!!!

    ‘So what? Who says she wasn’t still in France whenever this court case happened? and how do you know when the case happened?’

    The case was taped in November according to the original article, and aired in early December.

    ‘So what? One can go to Gerogies also to have the wig washed and set. She’s wearing a wig for ten years. How do you know she hasn’t been going to her for 10 years?’

    G claimed that she saw the ruined wig. Why didnt Heidie mention that fact in her testimony when she was aksed if she brought the sheitel to a professional? She would have strengthened her claim had she brought G into the picture as someone who saw it after the damage was done.

    This interview made it ten times worst,<<

    ‘I dont think so. I think it makes it ten times better. At least puts a doubt in a persons mind, that perhaps Heidi isn’t guilty at all.’

    Unfortunatley though, THE INTERVIEW was not consistent with Heid’s testimony. Heid’s testimony also clashed with her response to youtube.

    ”No, it is NOT. And what do you think you’re doing, Ms High and Mighty? Do you think your posts on a web site about how guilty she definately is is a kiddush Hashem? In fact, YOU are making this chillul Hashem a whole lot worse.’

    You sound very frustrated! YOu should be. But I always thought that if the story died down, rather than allowing for more scrutiny, we would all be better off!

    ‘And your questions are not logical. You are looking for holes to make heidi look guilty. And I’m sure you can find a 100 more questions to “prove” her guilt. ‘

    I dont have an axe to grind here! I dont even know these two people. Actually I found it very eidel how they just walked out of the courtroom , quietly, without expressing any remorse even to the moderator about their feeling s.

    Finally, LEV SORIM UMALOCHIM BEYAD HASHEM.

    If there is justice to be served, you can rely on the Almighty to see to it.

    Until then, use your energy to help them clear the air so that they can convince ALL of us that they were innocent.

    #718141

    Aishes Chayil
    Participant

    Oh, and Flowers?

    I suppose when G alluded to those who work at the laundromat in jest as ‘very clever people’, was a major KIDDUSH HASHEM AS WELL!!!

    I mean here you have a poor hardworking family who I DO believe are responsible to compensate for whatever the wig is worth (3 k apparantly was excessive), and she has to get fecicious in front of the camera, making us look a lot more arrogant and elite than the general public.

    #718142

    aries2756
    Participant

    AC, I agree with you on that point about the use of the word “clever” after all who was it that sent the wig to the laundromat in the first place. Weren’t they “clever”? And wasn’t it clever of them not to run to the laundromat who’s employees didn’t speak English and retrieve it immediately?

    #718143

    flowers
    Participant

    Aishes Chayil:

    I watched the Georgies video again, and as I stated earlier, I didn’t see that she fumbled, but if she did a little, it is normal. That was my point. And if I had to speak to prove someone’s innocence, I would!! Regardless of how uncomfortable it t made me.

    To be honest, I hesitated responding to your posts since it’s clear no matter what is said you will believe in the couple’s guilt.

    >>You sound very frustrated! <<

    You think you’re an expert in human emotions and know exactly how people should respond to everything! There was no reason for Heidi to mention at the time of questioning that Georgies was one of the people who said the wig is irrepairable. And, you’re wrong here too!! I’m not frustrated. Why do you think I should be?

    >>I dont have an axe to grind here! I dont even know these two people. <<

    I know you don’t know them!! It’s very easy to be critical of and hurt people you don’t know. If u would know them, I guarantee you wouldn’t be talking this way about them.

    >>Actually I found it very eidel how they just walked out of the courtroom , quietly, without expressing any remorse even to the moderator about their feeling s<<

    I only spoke to Heidi once and she is indeed a very eidel woman. But what you just said that you were impressed they didnt express any remorse is really laughable.

    #718144

    flowers
    Participant

    >>But I always thought that if the story died down, rather than allowing for more scrutiny..<<

    This is pretty laughable too. You have been scrutinizing the videos to death.

    People have very long memories, and while it may not have been a topic for long, over the next 30 years people will bring up “remember ….”

    At least the video by Georgie gives most intelligent people reason to doubt the guilt of the couple. And in a great many peoples mind, it exonerates the couple

    #718145

    Aishes Chayil
    Participant

    Flowers,

    You didnt respond to my last post about how G ridiculed the people at the laundromant in public. Eh, I suppose since she doesnt know them personally, its ok to do that, correct?????

    Why should you be frustrated?

    Well obviously because most people believe this story stinks.

    You say;

    ‘At least the video by Georgie gives most intelligent people reason to doubt the guilt of the couple. And in a great many peoples mind, it exonerates the couple ‘

    It gives many people the reason to think its a smokescreen. Thats the problem!

    Flowers, there are so many stories of how people made Kiddushei Hashem you can be proud of! Take the recent incident in Williamsburg with Shomrim for example.

    Why don’t you highlight those, insread of chewing over something that hurts.

    It’s very possible that Heide is an eidel woman. She made a major faux pas, along with her husband for bringing this out in public instead of trying to settle it in a private court.

    #718146

    Aishes Chayil
    Participant

    ‘To be honest, I hesitated responding to your posts since it’s clear no matter what is said you will believe in the couple’s guilt’

    The question isnt if they are innocent or guilty. Was it suitable for them to take this out?

    #718147

    aries2756
    Participant

    I think there are so many holes that the more people defend them the more people are going to want the holes in their stories answered appropriately. If you want people to stop attacking people should stop trying to defend them and let it die. Again, no one is questioning the fact that the laundry should not have washed the wig. No one is questioning the fact that the wig was ruined. But many of us are question the accusations that the Judge was wrong and the reasons the defenders of the couple are saying that. So the innocence you proclaim of this couple and the eidelkeit can be attributed to the Judge and to the laundry owners and employees as well. To keep demeaning the other players in this scenario is what is getting everyones ire.

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