Shidduchim and overweight girls

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  • #1196166

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    potentially, it could. But if you feel there is something you need to work on, you should do so in addition to the bracha. Maybe the bracha will give you the strength to work on these things.

    #1196167

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    The whole healthy diet and exercise thing imho is more challenging for frum Yidden, women and men.

    -Gyms are limited.

    -Yoga may be considered avodah zara and thus not permitted.

    -Wearing skirts also adds another challenge to working out (though yes I know that women do it despite the restrictions, but there is a big difference in range of movement compared to untznius attire)

    -Shabbos is full of eating and restricts walking long distances

    -Yom tovim also full of eating and lounging

    -For men, prayer occupies time that could be spent at the gym

    -For women, raising children and being in the home or at work limits time to take care of oneself

    Yes people somehow manage. Yet there is added stress and hurdles to get through. Stress alone inhibits metabolic efficiency, adds weight to the torso, etc. Plus being so busy can mean less sleep. Sleep deprivation is another way to gain weight despite genuine efforts to be healthy.

    Back in the day I did this 5am bootcamp while going to college full-time. I ran around doing bootcamp crazy routines with a yelling drill sergeant every weekday. I may have gained some muscle but lost more body fat when I stopped the program and just slept more instead. I replaced manic morning bootcamp with evening fast-paced yoga and it was a way better fit.

    The whole, what you put into your body and what energy you burn = what you will weigh is a myth. There are many additional factors here.

    #1196168

    yehudayona
    Participant

    lightbrite, I think I’ve vaguely heard questions about yoga, but I think most hold it’s OK. Can you point me to information that it’s not?

    Also, there’s nothing wrong with long walks on Shabbos as long as you stay in the techum. For the majority of American Jews who live in metropolitan areas, it would be possible to walk many miles without concern.

    Although we’re not allowed to fast on Shabbos and Yom Tov, we’re not required to overeat.

    #1196170

    commonsense
    Participant

    The problem is not her resume. B”H she gets yesses. When I start to check into them or when she actually dates them we discover issues. She has wonderful kiddos and is brimming over with personality. She is very frum but is def out of the box. Oot is probably the path for her but I don’t know how to access that. We have not had Mazel having shadchanim paying us attention. When they hear or see she’s heavy the shutters close and we don’t hear from them again.

    #1196171

    kapusta
    Participant

    I hear that. I was suggesting it in case you feel she is getting a mix of both yes and no, but obviously you know the details better than I do. If it makes you feel any better, my friend (tall and slim) who did all the right things and went to all the right places tells me she doesn’t find shadchanim helpful either. Slim, heavy I suspect they are just totally overwhelmed with panicked parents.

    One suggestion I’ve heard from a shadchan (as well as a mother of marrieds), is to choose references with name recognition, though obviously that doesn’t always work.

    Much hatzlacha in finding the right one simply!

    #1196172

    golfer
    Participant

    “Are the Mods asleep,” I ask myself, rubbing my eyes, “or am I still asleep and dreaming?”

    Of course I realize we are open to a great diversity of opinions and outlooks here.

    We are happy to hear advice on many subjects, from posters who may or may not know what they’re talking about. On weight loss and nutrition we hear that calories ingested and calories burned don’t affect your weight. We hear this from someone with no medical background or degree in nutrition and we’re happy! (Of course we’re happy. That means the huge portion of kugel and plate of chocolate chip cookies I ate, all lechovod Shabbos, are not the reason my reflection no longer fits into my mirror.)

    At some point though, we have to offer the Mods a hefty dose of caffeine.

    Here is a sentence I just read:

    “Idol worship isn’t a bad thing altogether that’s why people do it”

    I think when the subject is Shalosh Chamuros, we have to be somewhat less tolerant of random opinions.

    Maybe it’s just me.

    Apparently it’s just me.

    I accept your rebuke, I will go find the line and try to figure out how it got there. And you know it’s not just you, sometimes it’s just a mistake :0

    #1196173

    golfer
    Participant

    Thank you!

    That was quick!

    No need to apologize though.

    Mistakes are something I’m intimately familiar with…

    #1196176

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Date a smoker.

    #1196177

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    “Date a smoker.”

    My friend’s younger sister was overweight. She got married at 21 (I think) to a great guy who happened to be overweight and smoke.

    She found out about the smoking on the third date. Her father had been nifter when she was little, and the guy asked her how father died. She responded, “He had a heart attack because he was overweight and smoked”. So the guy said, “So I guess you must hate guys who are fat and smoke (like me)?” She said, “Why should I hate people who are fat? I’m fat myself.”

    I don’t know how she felt about the smoking part, but my friend realized she was marrying the guy based on the way she responded to the fat part.

    However, I don’t think that being overweight means that you have to marry a smoker. To my knowledge, I only once went out with a guy who smoked, and he was totally not for me.

    #1196178

    MDG
    Participant

    I believe that we seek that which is healthy/good for raising a family, like bearing kids (female) and supporting them (male). A few generations ago, healthy meant plump for a woman. Nowadays, it generally means athletic.

    #1196179

    Health
    Participant

    LU -“However, I don’t think that being overweight means that you have to marry a smoker.”

    I’m fat, but I won’t marry a female smoker, unless she’d quit before the marriage!

    #1196180

    The little I know
    Participant

    I guess posting comments in the CR means I am opinionated. Well, so be it.

    I am old enough to have met and known enough people to conclude that personality and midos are not correlated with weight. There are great people who are fat or thin. There are some awful people who are fat or thin. I recall something about a personality theorist who created personality types by body figure. His name has become obscure since there was never any fact to support the theory.

    Some of the previous comments push the issues of perception and assumption in either direction. I want to clarify this, having assisted some people in shidduchim, and married off my own children.

    There is a myth that the thin girl remains thin throughout life. Believers of that have never heard of baby fat. They also deny genetics.

    If I was to encounter a fat prospect (girl or boy), I would be inclined to jump to a conclusion. If the thoughts were verbalized, they would read something like this:

    “Wow, that person is really fat. He/she must overeat, make food a priority over other things, and must be so lazy that they never work off the calories ingested. Forget looks, which I might associate negatively. I don’t want to marry someone who prefers a plate of food to me.”

    These are judgments that are leaps of faith. Inaccurate, unfair, and not even self-serving.

    On the other hand, there are few conditions in which extra weight cannot be dumped. It is not easy, and surgical and radical interventions are not under consideration. Anyone (almost without exception) can lose weight if they truly value that as priority for them. If they are accustomed to being heavy, there would presumably be significant adjustment to a new lifestyle, vis a vis food and exercise, that may well require ongoing help and support to maintain.

    My 2 cents worth. Obesity is far more common today, and our eating patterns do not testify for improved health or nutrition. Just visit your favorite kosher grocery. Long, full aisles of nutrition-free junk foods, with the range of flavors and packages growing yearly. I have yet to hear about a kashrus organization that refuses to give hashgocho on another needless, unhealthy form of nosh.

    #1196181

    Torah613Torah
    Participant

    The true answer is, yes many boys will say no on weight.

    however, I have plenty of married friends who were overweight. Or who took medication, or who had a genetic issue, or whose parents were geirim, or who were very poor family, or who had a sibling with mental illness or OTD.

    There are plenty of mumim in shidduchiim. Most people have at least one. If your worst mum is being overweight, you will probably get married. If you have emotional issues with relationships, you will have a much harder time getting married that you will with any or all of the mumim above.

    #1196182

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    beauty is subjective

    When the Torah describes some people as beautiful, it has meaning. Obviously, there is objective beauty.

    #1196183

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    If you have emotional issues with relationships, you will have a much harder time getting married than you will with any or all of the mumim above.

    +1

    Or commitment issues.

    #1196184

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Features like eyes and noses are less subjective than weight and color. For example, at some times in history, the ideal skin tone according to society was very pale.

    #1196185

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    “beauty is subjective”

    Daas Torah: “When the Torah describes some people as beautiful, it has meaning. Obviously, there is objective beauty.”

    good point. So I guess there is some objectivity involved, but I think there is also a lot of subjectivity.

    I think there are some people who are objectively beautiful (everyone or almost everyone would think they are beautiful), but with a lot of people, it’s more subjective, and some will think they are attractive and some won’t.

    I would have thought that there are some people who are objectively ugly, but most people get married anyhow, so clearly someone finds them attractive.(the only people who might not be able to get married because of their looks are people who are disfigured, but that is a completely different category).

    #1196186

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    “Features like eyes and noses are less subjective than weight and color.”

    I think that is a good point, and may be how we can understand DY’s point. I have learned that there are certain facial features that babies find more attractive than others. I think it has to do with smoother features that are easier to look at.

    I don’t think that babies care about weight. I think that weight is something very subjective, as can be seen by the fact that it is so society-influenced.

    #1196187

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    There are also boys who really don’t care about looks. When my friend’s brother was in shidduchim, he didn’t care about looks.

    He ended up marrying a girl who was very overweight.

    #1196188

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    “Idol worship isn’t a bad thing altogether that’s why people do it”

    That was a quote from a rabbinical student who was telling me that my joy of yoga was actually an averah. He said that if avodah zara wasn’t appealing to the masses then people wouldn’t fall into its trap.

    I was responding to yehudayona. Sorry if anyone didn’t read the words before and after.

    Furthermore “On weight loss and nutrition we hear that calories ingested and calories burned don’t affect your weight.” –Not what I said. I said that there is more to it. It was in reference to a poster who advised the OP to pretty much just get in shape as if there may not be other factors.

    And indeed this was paraphrased by a medical doctor who was invited by the dept of anthropology as a guest to explain why certain populations of individuals are obese. Medical doctors and nutritionists understand that being healthy happens in social and environmental context.

    Point is, yes if someone is in an environment that pushes one to eat eat eat and lounge lounge lounge, one will have to swim against the stream in the sense of being additionally mindful about nutrition and taking care of oneself.

    Moderators… This message is important. After having certain posters, especially, weigh down on the OP’s position, posters also could find learning more would allow them to be more sensitive.

    I see that not everyone wants to read. That’s a different issue.

    Thanks for posting

    #1196189

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    “isn’t a bad thing” I think the issue was the way it’s phrased. He didn’t mean that it’s not a bad thing – it is a very bad thing – he meant that it’s an enjoyable thing. Those are two very different things.

    #1196190

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    In previous generations food was scarce and many people fasted during the week at least 1 or 2 days and shabbos was the only day they ate, not that they ate so well, but they ate decently.

    Today we eat well during the week and then we pig out on shabbos. And tradional shabbos foods are fattening full of oils and other unhealthy stuff and today not only do we eat 3 meals on shabbos, many times we eat 4 meals (Some Shul kiddushes are themselves large feasts) While some will condem me for this, if I know there is a large kiddush in shul, we dont really eat lunch at home, Its just too much food

    #1196192

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Daas Torah: “When the Torah describes some people as beautiful, it has meaning. Obviously, there is objective beauty.”

    good point. So I guess there is some objectivity involved, but I think there is also a lot of subjectivity.

    Thank you for the compliment, but I am a daas yochid, not Daas Torah.

    Yes, there is definitely also subjectivity. The gemara by eishes yefas toar says that v’choshakta bah refers a case where the soldier is attracted to a woman who is not beautiful.

    So someone can be objectivity not beautiful, yet someone is attracted to her.

    #1196193

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    Freudian slip. Either that, or I was already thinking of the next word that I was going to write.

    #1196194

    Frumkid97
    Member

    I just started following this feed and I’m also very overweight. I’m actually scared to start shidduchim because of it and i’m working with a nutritionist. I know it’s sad but thats a reality. and anyways shouldn’t we all want to be healthier?

    But one factor “BELIEVE” might want to look into is PCOS. It makes losing weight very difficult and about 10% of women have it without realizing and with certain tips (including losing weight and meds) it can be helped.

    #1196195

    WinnieThePooh
    Participant

    Frumkid97, PCOS may or may not be a factor affecting Believe’s or anyone else’s ability to lose weight, but you raise an important point- Metabolic disorders like PCOS can affect fertility and lead to other issues, and should be treated properly, whether or not such treatment helps you lose weight and makes dating easier.

    I am not saying this to give another reason to the guys to turn down an overweight girl, but to encourage the overweight girls/women to determine whether there are treatable medical issues that are causing their weight problems.

    #1196196

    Health
    Participant

    WtP -“Metabolic disorders like PCOS can affect fertility”

    Unfortunately, a lot of people aren’t interested in dealing with their health! So a lot of women just get married and then when they have problems like infertility, then they deal with it.

    The problem with this approach is that it takes years to deal with the problems!

    #1196197

    tznius
    Member

    Unfortunately our generation is on such a low madriga that yes it is true.

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