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I just got a new phone – the Moto X. The phone has a special feature on it that no matter what I’m doing, even if the phone is in sleep mode, if I say “OK Google Now” the phone will open up search. Obviously saying that phrase on Shabbos would be a problem, but would being in the same room as the phone and talking be a problem, because the phone is always listening (in order to hear when I say that phrase)? I will ask my Rav, but maybe other people have had similar situations with their phones perhaps?
Well why would u say “OK google now” on shabbos?
It is no different than every situation of talking within range of a microphone or someone else’s cell phone.
The two most practical solutions:
1) Turn your phone off
2) Settings > Voice > “Ok Google” Detection > From LOCK screen OFF
But if you do want to leave it on, then I think its what you would hold for an automatic light on the front of your neighbor’s house – you might cause it but you have no intention of it and are not trying to make the object do anything.
We had a situation with an automatic door to get to the Succah in a Nursing Home. They would lock the door on ‘open’ but the sensor was still on and clicked when we walked through. Now we get the power to it turned off beforehand, but according to some its still OK if it hadn’t been turned off (obviously turned off is better) and according to others its not.
So, like most Halachos of this nature its a Machlokes and I agree that you should speak to your local orthodox Rabbi.
Well, guess don’t ask your Rav on Shabbos in the same room as the phone.
I thought this would be a discussion of the shabbos app that I invented.
It automatically turns off the screen, and the typing, and browser, and email, and twitter, for shabbos.
Thats funny because the Shabbos App does exactly the opposite.
Is the shaila any different if on Shabbos you’re in the same room as a goy with a phone that activates and lights up whenever it hears the word “call”, can you use the word call in his earshot?
OK, someone wanna explain to me “The Shabbos App”? The video sounds like a joke…
What if you’re in the same room as someone who was hypnotized to plant wheat every time someone says “bread”. Can you say hamotzi in his presence?
squeak:
I’m thinking of making a ‘Shabbos App’ that locks down the phone on Shabbos. That kickstarter project is just sad…
Appdev, you’re going to have to give royalties to popa.
Seriously, though, good idea.
Well, that’s how this ShabbosApp will work anyway because it will kill the battery like an hour after Shabbos starts. Anyway, from what I’ve seen the app doesn’t solve the Halachic issues (though it might get most according to R’ Neuwirth). But if it did, there shouldn’t be anything wrong with utilizing it.
Daas,
Lol, I didn’t read that far up. If I would do the project, it would be free. I wouldn’t want to turn people away due to a price barrier.
Sam, I assume that you don’t condone chillul Shabbos for even an hour.
The developers of this app will have to give huge din v’cheshbon if they go through with this. Besides for not making anything muttar, they are fooling people into thinking they are making it muttar by inventing issurim which this app supposedly takes care of.
And no, Sam, emphatically NO, it would not be okay even if they somehow took care of the technical issurim.
http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14336&st=&pgnum=158&hilite=
wow, what has the world come to that ppl wanna use phones on Shabbos. Can ppl handle a 1 day break?????????
DY: Honestly, I think the whole thing is a joke. No one’s actually making this app.
And they’d be at Shul, with their phone dead by the time they got home. 😛
Look, it’s clear there’s not a Muttar way to set up a smartphone to use on Shabbos. But plenty of inventions have entirely overhauled how Shabbos is celebrated. Electric lights, air conditioners, timers, Shabbos elevators, escalators/moving sidewalks, wheelchairs, board games, and more. So if this would also change it in an entirely Muttar way, there’s nothing inherently wrong with it.
Sam, I hope you’re right, but there are definitely people taking it seriously.
FWIW, my rav assers Shabbos elevators, no matter the technology, because of zilzul Shabbos, and this is obviously much worse.
Did you read the Chazon Ish I linked? He disagrees with your assertion that something is fine if there were no issurim. This would obviously be much different than lights or a/c.
DY: I am familiar with the Chazon Ish. It’s a minority opinion among Achronim. I won’t disagree with your Rav, but I don’t understand things like that. What makes something Zilzul Shabbos? Ad’raba, now I can visit my great-great grandmother on the 40th floor. Now people in wheelchairs can get upstairs to the women’s section. A Zilzul should mean something inherently antithetical to the notion of being Shoves. A ShabbosApp might Taka do that; I can’t see how an elevator does.
I’m not at all condoning a shabbos app but I’m sure people said the same thing about lights etc before we got used to it. What? Keeping lights on on shabbos!
ivory – yes but you don’t pick the lamp up and carry it around as it turns itself on and off. None of the things we use on timers are allowed to be touched on Shabbos.
True!
I’m not at all condoning a shabbos app but I’m sure people said the same thing about lights etc before we got used to it. What? Keeping lights on on shabbos!
ok, so now you sound like a tzeduki.
Exactly! This is what I meant. Everything can sound like chillul shabbos till you get used to it. I still think people who are anti eruv are also like tzeduki
I don’t think you can compare the two at all.
Sam: Rav Moshe poskens it’s assur to even set a timer before Shabbos to turn on the air conditioner.
What about reb moshe’s tshuva about leaving the tv on on shabbos? I find that to be analogous to the shabbos app (if the theoretical technical question were resolved). As far as the ok google thing, to me that would be analogous to a burglar alarm on standby. As long as nothing is apparent, and you don’t want it to be listening, sounds ok.
A Zilzul should mean something inherently antithetical to the notion of being Shoves. A ShabbosApp might Taka do that; I can’t see how an elevator does.
First, I’m glad we are maskim that this is worse than an elevator. This is indeed a stirah to being shoves. I like how you put that.
I think the reason an elevator might be considered zilzul is is because you are actively (for lack of a better word) using it, i.e. it is transporting you, whereas lights are just on, albeit benefitting you. I think 29 might be alluding to this point. Agav, my rav may be mattir to visit my grandmother on the 40th floor. With no alternative to walk, and a tzorech gadol, it might be okay. In the situation I was involved in, although there was a tzorech gadol, there was a reasonable alternative to walk.
Ivory, popa is referring to the fact that tzedukim held you can’t even have a fire lit from before Shabbos. However, we’ve always been allowed to have fire/light in our homes on Shabbos, the only thing that changed is that the source is now electrical.
Actively using an electrical device is entirely different.
29: I don’t think that’s true. If you have a fan that’s left on you’re allowed to move it. Some let you carry around a flashlight that is left on all Shabbos.
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