Talking With Members of The Opposite Gender

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  • #662963

    qwertyuiop
    Member

    mod42: what do you mean, “again”??$

    #662964

    YW Moderator-42
    Moderator
    #662968

    qwertyuiop
    Member

    mod42: i forgot about that$

    #662969

    qwertyuiop
    Member

    mod42: how did you even remember that??$

    #662970

    pearl
    Member

    Jothar:

    I don’t believe there are two “Hills”. IMHO they are one and the same person, so naturally they will hold the same views.

    #662974

    ujm
    Participant

    Jothar,

    If you were running this place, what would you do about this situation?

    #662976

    Jothar
    Member

    Mod, My anonymous Rebbe ZT”L remains anonymous because my (sometimes too non-yeshivish) views and (sometimes overly argumentative and aggressive) behavior here in the coffee Room are not an accurate reflection of his views and exemplary middos, and I would be doing him a disservice if people started associating my views with his.

    FWIW, my anonymous Rebbe ZT”L felt that when addressing other women besides your wife, you call them Mrs. or Miss, not by their first names. Relationships with other women should be cordial but not friendly. When I first started working I tried that, but the constant wear-and-tear and the fact that the veiber I worked with found it offensive (they felt like their mothers) made me drop it.

    In that case, I hope we live up to his standards.

    #662977

    feivel
    Participant

    it was Shaul, i believe, before he was king, whilst he was looking for his father’s donkeys, stopped to ask directions from a couple of ladies. but the Meforshim say he used as little words as possible and did not engage them in “conversation” other than what was necessary.

    #662978

    JayMatt19
    Participant

    ??? ???? ?????? ??? ?? ???? ?????? ????? ??????? ??? ?? ????? ??? ??? ???? ???? ??? ????? ???? ?? ?? ???? ????? ?? ???? ???? ?? ???? ??? ?? ???? ????? ????

    -???? ??????? ?? ??,?

    R’ Yose HaGillili once met Beruria on the road and asked her “By which road should we travel to Lod?” Beruria replied “Fool, Didn’t the Rabbanim say (in Avos) ‘don’t talk excessively with women?’ you Should have asked ‘Which (road) to Lod?’

    This is a Gemarrah in Eruvin

    #662979

    Mayan_Dvash
    Participant

    Jothar, my Rebbi said the same thing. In my first job, it was at a small company that employed Yeshivish looking people, I was in good company when addressing women as Mrs. _____. Ditto at the second company. Right now I work in a large office where the first few weeks I had to educate the women to avoid contact, that it’s not personal etc…. being that I am the only Yarmulka bearer in the office.

    (How many of you thought with a name like Mayan I am female?)

    #662980

    baal kishron
    Participant

    guilty as charged:)

    #662981

    Mayan_Dvash
    Participant

    There was a thread a while back where “everyone” supposedly explained their call sign. Mayan Dvash means spring of honey or well of honey. Since I work for Honeywell, I chose that name.

    #662982

    areivimzehlazeh
    Participant

    This update was very helpful. Sometimes we just need reminders.

    Thanks to the hills for bringing back this topic & to mod42 for giving a very clear synopsis of the situation.

    and- I’m assuming a general statement that does not address a specific member is always permitted

    #662983

    Jothar
    Member

    Mod, I appreciate the public kavod, but I’m trying to bleib a lamadvavnik- once I’m bavust I lose my membership discounts..the other 35 don’t like bavuste lamadvavniks…

    #662984

    areivimzehlazeh
    Participant

    jothar- he wasn’t referring to you 😉

    #662986

    substitute ego boosters shouldn’t go around deflating people’s egos like that!

    #662987

    Jothar
    Member

    Areivim, his earlier mod did make a reference to me, but he removed it. So I’m still nistar. I am still allowed to attend the annual “36” retreat…

    #662988

    areivimzehlazeh
    Participant

    oh B”H for editing technology. So- how was the leftover cholent?

    #662989

    Jothar
    Member

    Us Lamedvavniks get the best of everything- if we acted all pious people might catch on to us or something. And if you think we’re ugly, gevald are you ugly! (paraphrase from shlomo carlebach’s shvartze wolf story, not a personally directed comment)

    #662990

    moish01
    Member

    hey jothar i tried posting that and it didn’t make it. oh well.

    #662991

    squeak
    Participant

    Ah, Jothar, I didn’t know! You see, I’m 37nik. So all I need is for you to shove over, and I’m in. I’ve been waiting on the sidelines for so long….

    #662992

    areivimzehlazeh
    Participant

    how do you get on to the waiting list? how much paperwork, forged signatures, protectzia, layers of clothing etc… necessary?

    #662993

    ujm
    Participant

    Does anyone have a justification for the regular chatting with the other gender?

    #662994

    SJSinNYC
    Member

    UJM, I chat with members of both genders regularly. As part of my job, I’ve become friendly with many men. I find it really helps with our job – its a lot easier to work hard for a friend than a coworker.

    Also, my husband and I share friends. Some I am closer with and some he is, but its important to me that we have our friends rather than isolating each other. This requires cross-gender communication.

    #662995

    squeak
    Participant

    areivim – you know what they say, “If you have to ask….”

    #662996

    Jothar
    Member

    Don’t worry, Squeak, you’re the “Rudy” of the lamedvavniks. One day you’ll get your chance, if you’re not too bavust beforehand. There’s no shame in being a lamedzayinnik.

    #662997

    ujm
    Participant

    SJSinNYC, I am talking about Chareidishe Yidden. You are MO (and by some MO, there is even mixed swimming.) So you are no raya.

    By Bnei Torah, talking with the other gender is minimized to the bare possible minimum. And that’s the way it should be.

    #662998

    ujm
    Participant

    ames, did I ever identify my gender? I think it is mostly irrelevant. Part of the problem is when people unnecesarily think it important to advertise their gender here. I think you even made clear you’re married. How is that relevant?

    Obviously here it isn’t as bad as in real life. But if you read some of the kibbutzing threads and see what is going on between the genders, it raises many red flags. Talking “issues” is one thing. I see you and others deeply involved in chatting on non-issue familial terms chatting. This is wrong.

    #662999

    asdfghjkl
    Participant

    ujm: as areirim would say-using a word i taught him-CHILLAX!!!!

    #663000

    SJSinNYC
    Member

    trying so hard not to respond to hypocritical drivel…

    #663001

    squeak
    Participant

    Jothar – <gasp> –

    Notre Dame and lamedvavniks in the same sentence??? Vey is mir! (woe to me)

    #663002

    Jothar
    Member

    Squeak, that’s what makes a lamedvavnik a lamedvavnik- the ability to look like an ordinary Jew but still maintain a hidden kedusha.

    #663003

    hey I missed this conversation. Jothar, you’re really also a lamed vovnik like me? Wow, any others here in the CR besides the 2 of us?

    #663004

    chillmaster
    Member

    the only issur concerning men and women is talking or laughing which can lead to touching. singing is the same thing the only reason why a man cant listen to a women sing is because he will want her and will lead to bad things.

    there is no problem blogging with a ‘women’ in reality is could be an old granny or a little boy !! you willl never know!!!!

    dont you people work and email or call women in your company or other ones isnt that the same thing

    #663005

    squeak
    Participant

    ames, your Yiddish and my Arabic have plenty in common.

    Jothar, what hath an ordinary Jew to do with Notre Dame?

    #663006

    chillmaster
    Member

    ames: good point im a young single working guy dont worry

    #663007

    anonymisss
    Participant

    chill- thanks for answering my question, wrong thread though

    ~a~

    #663008

    Jothar
    Member

    A moshol squeak, nothing more. You’re riding the bench for the next opening in the circle of 36.

    Charlie Brown, I greet you with the secret handshake.

    #663009

    cherrybim
    Participant

    It’s like having anonymous talk.

    #663012

    Joseph
    Participant

    Reb Moshe, in Igros Moshe EH 4:60, paskened that it is assur to talk to the opposite gender in a social context, and assur to be friends with them, and even seeming platonic relationships between boys and girls are assur min hatorah. In the Sefer HaChinuch, mitzvah number 188, it states there that it is assur for boys and girls to talk to each other.

    #663013

    cherrybim
    Participant

    UJM: When as you said that Rav Moshe paskins: “it is assur to talk to the opposite gender in a social context”, does he mean “any talk” or does he allow “bare minimum talk”?

    #663015

    striving
    Member

    I’m glad that I found this thread because I was thinking of starting one myself. When I started YWN CR a week ago I was thrilled that there was a frum forum for discussing real things. I asked a Q about shidduchim and I received beautiful thought out answers. I was like, “Woah. This place is so cool.” But then, as I started browsing other threads/topics, I realized that there is a bit of sketchiness situations. I saw people constantly identifying their genders and marital statuses. I even saw borderline (or not so borderline) fliratiousness.

    I’m not trying to put down YWN CR cuz I think they do a lot of good. I think that maybe the moderators should be a bit more selective in what they allow through the filters. I mean sometimes the comments are just “personal jokes” between posters and totally mess up the train of thought of the entire thread… and often those jokes are between self-identified opposite gender people.

    They say “Everything in moderation” and I think that’s what this place needs. A bit more moderation (in terms of moderators) so that we can keep the good emmesdig content and weed out the leitzanus/not-frum-Jew-appropriate stuff!

    #663017

    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    striving:

    I have seen the same, it used to be much worse. I’m not aroud for the conversation periods (evening) either way.

    #663018

    Mayan_Dvash
    Participant

    I have a question that is purely academic and should not be used as “halacha lemaaseh” It should be clear that Negiah is ossur whether the other person is 12 or 100 years old. Do we say the same Lo Ploog regarding talking? I can hear valid arguments both ways.

    #663019

    myshadow
    Member

    striving, your absolutely right.

    Personally I never saw that much wrong with the coffeeroom but I hear everybody’s points. We are all kidding ourselves that maybe people that we think are young girls are really 40 year men. Most blogger’s gender and approximate age are very clear.

    From all the shidduchim threads, the single girls have been identified therefore technically any man who is posting on this site should really not be stam schmoozing with them.

    I don’t mean to sound farfrumnt or anything but I was pretty surprised myself when SJS was able to correctly identify me on the laptop thread, and like chillmaster posted on this thread: “good point im a young single working guy dont worry” (no offense chillmaster!!)

    So the question then is, when there is a clear distinction between the guys and girls on the internet, and their true identity is not known, is there any sort of issur?

    #663020

    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    Mayan_Dvash: Hate to say it, but what you claim is clear is not so clear. The Issur is only Derech Kiruv, and there is a big Chiluk in that via age.

    #663021

    SJSinNYC
    Member

    Myshadow, I hope I didn’t offend you in any way when I called out your gender/age.

    Keep in mind, you posted a thread about 20th birthday celebration ideas and said “My friend is turning 20 and she’s the first in our group to leave her teenage years!” [No, I didn’t remember that exactly, but I knew I thought you were a young woman. I just checked your profile to see how I got that idea]

    #663022

    Mayan_Dvash
    Participant

    GAW: that’s not how my Rebbi taught it to us. Do YOU shake women’s hands?

    #663023

    yossiea
    Member

    Your rebbi in HS or your Rav? Big difference. I was learning with my rav in a small setting just a few men and we were learning and bottom line is that to shake a non-Jewish female’s hand is not 100% assur, so if you’re in certain situations then it would be OK to shake hands. Shaking a Jewish woman’s hand is a bigger issue.

    #663024

    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    Mayan_Dvash: My answer would be demeaning and blocked. Vhamavin Yavin.

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