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I am constantly getting news items and videos about protest, whether it be about the light railway or draft Dodgers being arrested etc. Why are parents letting their children go and protest when the biggest thing they could do is to sit in the beis hamedrash and learn? Maybe take an extra mitzvah to do or daven harder. The gedolim will say sure it’s a mitzvah to protest, but I am sorry, it’s a bigger mitzvah to daven to for yeshuosh then to sit blocking roads and causing others to be late for shul, kollel, etc. There’s no halachic justification to cause financial loss or time loss at the expense of what that are doing! Go back to the beis and learn!
This was an argument in Europe between the Chasam Sofer and students of Volosion against the reform movement. The Chasam Sofer has his students fight by separating from the reformed and they saved the yeshivas whereas the Volosiion students sat and learned and at the end reform movement took over.
“The gedolim will say sure it’s a mitzvah to protest, but I am sorry, it’s a bigger mitzvah to daven to for yeshuosh”
I’m also sorry for you
It’s one thing to thing you know better than the gedolim in worldly matters but how can you thing you know better than them regarding what’s a mitzvah? Do you also think you know more about heart surgery than a heart surgeon ?That’s not just a question of emunah it just make any sense to think that
Btw it is true that all the gedolim have said in the past to protest including R Elyashiv R Shteinman and R Chaim Kenievsky however not all agree in the specific case of the draft issue
Also I’m sure you yourself would have a point were you feel an injustice is great enough to protest for example clear anti Semitic acts by a government or the like despite that protest inconveniencing others it’s simply a question of values for these people spiritual persecution is worse than physical (that also happens to be the Torah’s view as the Gemara states: it is worse to cause one to sin than to kill himVery well put BMG. However your name sort of gives away your biases on the matter 🙂 (not that I disagree with your point chv”sh)
To my mind, the big mistake with these protesters is that they are staging thier protests in the midst of the general public, who have no power or authority and who are just like the protesters – average citizens. The protesters thereby only aggravate and alienate the general public and do little or nothing for their cause. They ought to be protesting at the seat of government – block roads to the Kenesset, go to Netanyahu’s house, as well as every Minister who supports anti-Chareidi measures. That has two effects – it confronts the actual government authorities with the consequences of their actions and it generates support amongst the public, who are always somewhat inclined to resent the governent over some matter or another.
With their fighting spirit they should be in IDF combat units.
Well, protesting things like Busses running on Shabbat in Eretz Yisrael, which would prevent other Jewish people from at the very least somewhat publicly desecrating Shabbat may be a worthwhile protest if effective, even to a small degree.
After all it is in fact Eretz Yisrael itself…
Simon
Don’t bow to the revisionist history being put out by peleg and apparently their mouthpiece here BMG
Rav Shteinman did not support these protests, neither did the vast majority of rosh hayeshivos in EY who viewed Rav Shteinmans derech as the proper one
Unfortunately he isn’t around anymoreIf you don’t like protests. there are countries that don’t have such a problem Germany was very successful in banning protests for a 17 year period (until the Americans conquered them and undid the ban). Today, North Korea is world famous as a protest-free zone.
You sound lik Lieberman. That is his whole tayne on the chareidim and thats one of the big things he claims he will put an end to and stop giving money to all these yeshivos
Mentch1 why not read what i wrote i specificaly said other gedolim argue regarding protesting here i just wrote that all inc rav shteinman have said in the past to protest over spiritual maters for example see rav Shteinman’s letter years ago signed by R Chaim Kenievsky as well that everyone should dedicate 3 days a year to protest with asrah kadishah and those protest were worse than these look it up
Why are posters assuming that it is true that gedolim support protesting? How many gedolim support protesting vs. how many have spoken out against it? Please show me which gedoilm support these protesters. I would be very curious to see the list.
Reb Eliezer’s comparison to the Chasam Sofer makes absolutely no sense and proves nothing.
Peaceful disobedience means being prepared to take the consequences for your violations of the law. However, the Likud-led government seems unable/unwilling to enforce the law and allows these Peleg hoodlums and their leadership to disrupt the tzibur with impunity, perhaps out of fear of alienating the religious parties who are part of their coalition.
Gadolhadorah, Peleg isn’t, and hasn’t been for a long time, part of the coalition. They don’t even vote.
Neturei Karta engages in peaceful protests – note the great approval one hears of them from the people complaining about Peleg. Whether peaceful, non-violent protests (cf. Gandhi in British India, Martin Luther King in the American South under Jim Crow, the “White Rose” in Nazi Germany) are effective is a matter to debate.
Remember, the alternative to protests is repression, i.e. gestapos and camps, gulags, “re-education”, When you look at it that way, democratic tolerance of disorder doesn’t seem all that bad.
Simon
Aruch Hashulchan 53:22
A mitzvah that comes about through machlokes is not a mitzvah
It is not possible to sit down in , and stop traffic without creating tremendous machlokes, thus I don’t see how it can be a mitzvah
I was at plenty of protests in EY, the ones supported by the gedolim. They involved preplanning, the public being made aware and thus able to plan accordingly. Hundreds of thousands showed up
These protests involve handfuls of teenagers who take it upon themselves to cause tremendous tircha dtzibura. The ones being effected are usually fellow yerushalyimites. And for what goal? for what purpose?
Does anyone take such a protest seriously? or does the public just see them as the hooligans they are?(albeit dressed differently then the hooligans we have in our country)
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