- This topic has 64 replies, 19 voices, and was last updated 11 years, 11 months ago by .
-
Posts
-
For those Jews who plan on voting for Mr. Obama again -chew on this:
I didn’t hear a word about the France massacre from him, but yet he weighed in on the teen’s killing in Fla.
Besides him jumping to conclusions to be PC, it appears he is wrong. The accused is a Minority from Hispanic descent, whom looks it. He has many African Amer. friends & family. This is Number 1 point. In other words, if it was Murder, it wasn’t racially based.
#2. It appears from looking at it objectively, that the accused did act in self-defense. While I agree the accused chased and pushed an innocent kid, this doesn’t mean he committed murder. What I feel happened after the pushing was the kid got very angry and violently attacked the accused. At this point, after being injured the accused felt this guy isn’t going to stop and it’s either his life or the teen’s life. This is acting in self-defense whether he caused the fight in the first place or not. Some people have no control of their anger.
So when you pull the lever for Mr. Obama this year -I hope you will be able to sleep at night and not have your tiny conscience keeping you up about the poor victims in France that almost noone in the world has vocally condemmed!
Honestly, while a response would probably be nice, Obama doesn’t really NEED to respond. The tragedy involved France and Israel, and the US had NOTHING to do with it. On the contrary, this case took place in the US and does touch upon race relations which CAN BE relevant. There is no reason why a member of one minority can’t be prejudiced against members of another. You’ll find many cases– nobody wants to be on the bottom, so you have to make someone else at the bottom.
Writer soul- it absolutely IS relevant! This was not just a massacre, but a terrorist attack. The killer had ties to extremists in Pakistan (though it is unclear whether he was involved with al Qaeda as he claimed). Obama doesn’t care about terrorism- yeah, he killed bin Laden, but that was really the least of our problems.
Health- there are a million and one better reasons not to vote for him. The Florida shooting is a mess. You seem so sure of what went down, considering that we only have one side of the story (the other side being dead). What would be wrong with having a trial and allowing Zimmerman to argue that he acted in self-defense? Let him prove it in court- if he can, he will be acquitted, if he can’t, he goes to jail. Someone is dead- of course the person who did it is going to claim he had a good reason for it. Since when do we just take his word for and not investigate? Again, if he really acted justly, he sould be able to prove it in court.
The claim that Zimmerman can’t be racist because he’s a minority is ridiculous. I teach in a NYC public school and believe me, minorities are all racist against each other. The blacks and the Hispanics particularly hate each other. And I don’t buy the “some of my best friends are [insert group here]”- I don’t buy it when someone says it about Jews, and I don’t buy it when it’s about any other group.
The fact that any law abiding American citizen votes for this person is beyond me! Hes horrible, hes the worst president since Carter and that’s not saying much! Obama is a racist and he gets away with his stupid policies Bc then you’re a racist if you argue against it! I don’t think Americans will make the same mistake twice, but if he gets elected again, I’m moving to germany
Health, so an innocent kid was chased and pushed but then he violently attacked the accused? That sounds like self defense not a violent attack. I may or may not vote for Obama but your argument has no bearing at all on the matter.
Health, we KNOW he shot the kid. We do NOT know what exactly happened, and whether or not it was in self-defense. Only a thorough police investigation and possible trial can come close to answering that question. An investigation is warranted. The Constitution does not protect you from investigation where warranted; it sets parameters for when police have cause to investigate you. It also guarantees you the right to a fair trial. Zimmerman has to answer for the fact that he shot someone. If he was in the right, he will be cleared, if not, he will pay for his crime. This needs to be looked at though. You can’t just shoot someone dead, say you were defending yourself, and expect no one to ask questions.
Obama already did his Hishtadlus, by having this french terrorist on a watch list since 2010, banning his entry into the USA, so as far as Obama is concerned, putting him onto this watchlist, was his way of condemning the attack, and he already closed the book on this chapter in 2010.
Of-course it was correct decision & better to have him on the watchlist before an attack on USA soil than after, as by WTC.
Everyone: You’re right about Obama (not) commenting. I was half asleep when I posted that. Chatati aviti pashati.
Health: If he was justified in attacking the kid because he was previously attacked, then WHY did Zimmerman call 911 and follow him BEFORE the kid even saw him? He followed the kid after the 911 operator told him not to. Why?
And not knowing the guy, I can’t say he’s a racist. But you said “the accused is a Minority from Hispanic descent…in other words, if it was Murder, it wasn’t racially based.” Which is the only reason why I said why I did. You said he CAN’T be racist, I said MAYBE.
But Health, if it’ll make you feel any better, I won’t vote for Obama in November :).
It clear with the Zimmerman case, You dont seem to know the basic Facts
There is a law in many states that if an intruder breaks into your home you are allowed to use deadly force.
Many States including Florida has expanded this to Citizens Patrol groups (Like the Shomrim) who are not cops, but patrol neighborhoods. The Law is called STAND YOUR GROUND.
Zimmerman was on this “Citizens Patrol” and Saw Mr Martin wearing a Hoodie and felt he was a Perp and tried to “Apprehend” him.
Exactly what happend next is up for debate, except the Zimmerman killed Treyvor Martin. His defense was the STAND YOUR GROUND law.
Obviously it was a mistake and Martin was killed. If Zimmerman tried to Apprehen Martin and martin fought back it was Self Defense by MARTIN as you cant arrest someone for not doing anything.
Consider it like someone gives you some food and you eat it anfd you find out later it wasnt Kosher, Whose fault was it?
Obviosuly you are supposed to make 100% sure it was kosher before eating it.
This was worse because someone was killed, Someone was killed by mistake , There are no mulligans in murder.
And BTW the author of the Stand you Ground Law says this case does NOT apply in this case as the Stand your ground only applies AFTER you call 911 which Zimmerman did not
Actually:
1. The statute reads: (3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
So, it applies to anyone, not just patrols.
2. Nothing is obvious. It is completely possible that Martin saw him following him, so whirled and attacked him. It is completely possible that Martin was really out hunting hispanics. It is completely possible that zimmerman was out hunting blacks.
3. zimmerman did call 911.
4. You don’t need to call 911. It doesn’t matter what the author says, the law is not ambiguous.
What I meant was people are debating the constitution and racism, but its really all about this Stand your ground law.
I dont know if Zimmerman is criminally guilty, but for sure he is Civilly guilty . If I was martins Parents, Id sue him ASAP for unlawful death and they would probably win
They’d probably win and then collect less than the lawyers cost them, since Zimmerman doesn’t have much money.
I am sure they could get Pro-Bono lawyers for this case who are only interested in overturning this law.
They could garnish his wages for the rest of his life.
But they really woulndt get much, they would do it just to prove a point
I see a lot people making assumptions about FL civil law, which may not be correct. I ain’t no lawyer, but neither are you.
Health: Wait a cotton-picking minute.
First, you say, “Yes, he did something wrong and it might even be called Battery (a crime),” and then you say “but this does Not Justify a violent response.”
HUH?
Battery is, according to definitions.uslegal.com, is
“a crime and also the basis for a lawsuit as a civil wrong if there is damage. A battery is any:
a. Willful and unlawful use of force or violence upon the person of another; or
b. Actual, intentional and unlawful touching or striking of another person against the will of the other; or
c. Unlawfully and intentionally causing bodily harm to an individual.”
If you’re admitting that he committed battery, then he obviously was already being violent, which would probably make a “violent response” justified.
Just because you think liberals go too far doesn’t mean you have to go conservative to the extreme.
And there are less infantile ways of making your point than insulting commentors.
Just because Al Sharpton is protesting doesnt mean its wrong, A broken clock is right twice a day.
Considering someone has been killed, Certainly minally a Grand Jury Investigation is warranted and if the Grand Jury sees enough evidence for a trial, so be it and if the Grand Jury says he is likely Not Guilty because of the Stand Your Ground Law, then that is law.
The Sanford Police department has had very little investigations so far and the Police Chief has taken a leave of absense because of it
I will admit when I first heard about this case and heard the name Zimmerman, I thought the shooter was Jewish (Every Zimmerman I ever met was jewish)
zdad: You are not correct about how the issue is being handled. The police have a file on it and have been interviewing witnesses. The prosecutor plans to take it to the grand jury.
There is literally nothing to protest here.
I sonr think that we know the facts all to well to comment.
Health: While you were right in your argument with Thinking Mom, your personal attacks on her were entirely uncalled for. Why can’t you just make your point and leave the insults out of it?
To the original poster, Health: I will happily and enthusiastically pull the lever for the reelection of President Obama (or check the box, or scan the scanner, or begin the biguine, or whatever we do in New York these days to vote), for a number or reasons, including my expectation that his foreign and related policies will be best for the State of Israel and the Jewish people. But for now, let me respond to your comments.
1. Mr. Obama is the president of the US, not France. Toulousse is in France, Florida is in the US. You could look it up. So even if President Obama said nothing about the assassination of 3 Jews in France, his focus on a killing in Florida is reasonable and appropriate. And I believe that Mr. Obama did make some reasonable and appropriate comments about the killings in France, but that is neither here nor there.
2. Mr. Obama did not jump to any conclusions. He called for a continuing investigation. He noted – in a locution which I personally abhor – that the deceased child is African-American. I don’t like the locution, but I see nothing harmful in noting the victim’s race. The locution he used personalized the comments in a touching way, but there is nothing inappropriate about that.
3. Your legal analysis of the currently unknown facts about the confrontation is just plain wrong. If Mr. Zimmerman was unlawfully following young Mr. Martin, and Mr. Martin “stood his ground” with his fists, Mr. Zimmerman had no right to defend himself, with a gun or otherwise, as Mr. Zimmerman was apparently – to you – engaging in conduct that could reasonably be expected to provoke ground-standing by Mr. Martin. A 911 operator specifically told Mr. Zimmerman to back off – police were dispatched to check out what the armed, goyishe shomrim has complained about – no need to do anything further if the cops are on their way.
4. You wrote, in part: “What I feel happened after the pushing [by the gunman, Zimmerman] was the kid [young Mr. Martin] got very angry and violently attacked the accused.” If your feeling is correct, then you fail to see the applicability of the Florida “stand you ground” law to Mr. Martin – he has a right to attack someone who was pushing him. The gunman at that point, having provoked Mr. Martin, was not rightfully standing his ground, he was losing a fight, from which he had to retreat. Your interpretation of the “stand your ground” law is preposterous. It surely is not intended to authorize a citizen to provoke someone into a fight and then “stand his ground” with a lethal weapon. That would be an insult to the Florida legislature … I hope. The “stand your ground” law applies equally to a colored kid in a hoody carrying a bag of skittles as it does to anybody else, even an armed and dangerous shomrim.
Health- if a frum jew was the one who was killed would you still be saying the same thing…i highly doubt it
and come on enough with the insults already its a little pathetic
i agree with health’s original post. the silence from our president was not ”golden”.
even though it was not something which happened in the usa our leader should have spoken out against it and made sure to bea heard that the usa offers condolences to the families who are suffering from this tragedy
It turns out he was in Sanford and not home in Miami because he was suspended from school for possession of marijuana , that doesn’t make him guilty of anything else or deserving to be killed but he may have had more in his pocket then skittles, but even so Zimmerman should have left the policing to the pro’s.
Um, Health, does anyone besides you say that Zimmerman only pushed Martin?
Though honestly, quite frankly, if someone jumped on me from behind at night I would probably start punching them, and feel quite justified. Besides, my definition of battery included “unlawful touching or striking” and pushing most probably fits in that category.
PS: Please do not respond unless your response is 100% civil. I just had a really hard day and don’t need anything else to push me down.
nfgo3: “I will happily and enthusiastically pull the lever for the reelection of President Obama”
Oh how I wish you lived in France and elected Obama as president there.
(No problem with working on a French birth certificate 😉
health based on all the anger in your posts…im gonna say i just dont believe you
Let’s just wait for the trial, and see what the FACTS are.
People are obviously holding things back from both sides.
Just please don’t overcompensate for liberalism by being over-conservative.
health- funny but im not a liberal at all…actually a pretty big conservative.
I do believe in rational thinking, however i have never been followed by someone with a gun so i dont have an answer for you
Health- we do not know if he even beat him for following him, we dont even know who started the altercation. Martin has the right of self-defense and it is a fact that he was scared about this guy who was following him (based on the phone calls with his girlfriend right before)
“When did a Jew ever beat s/o for following him?”
right im sure that has never happened of course all jews are perfect ppl…
“Maybe you should reassess your beliefs? Are you really conservative? Nowadays, you really can’t be PC & conservative at the same time!”
The truth is i dont care about labels…i consider myself to be more to the right (even though it seems like im supporting the left on this) but maybe i don’t pass your credentials to be considered a conservative…..oh well
Health do u realize your not answering my questions, just avoiding them and trying to bash me and my upbringing. If you cant have a political conservation without saying bad things about me dont bother answering back at all.
Im not sure why you think a Jew cant possibly end up in an alercation? Its not an ideal situation, but dont kid youself these things happen maybe you were sheltered growing up and if you were thats a good thing
The evidence is still being examined, and regardless of the latest evidence being that Martin was winning was winning the fight, its unclear who started it.
Health maybe you should re-read the conversation…
No that doesnt mean i am a self-hating jew, just not an ignorant one. Im proud to be part of the greates nation in the world.
You seem to have a lot of assumptions…dont assume anything
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.