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how can anyone stick up for someone who was with a young girl in a room with a bed and 3 locks on the door? ina standard therapy session, sessions last for 45-1 hour and there are no locks on door. and this a community that men dont even look at women; it is inconceivable that this was allowed. you cant even imagine the trauma that this poor girl suffered if allegations true. forget about the chassidish community, most male therapists i work with, of any stripe, try to avoid seeing a female client unless clinically necessary. it is very sad to see a frum man locked up for so many years but the lesson is clear: be careful who you or child is seeing as a therapist, generally only see a licensed professional (LSW, LCSW, Psychologist,etc).
it is inconceivable that this was allowed
Agreed. What is the evidence that this occurred?
Didn’t the parents take her to him as they were instructed? Wouldn’t it have come out by now if she hadn’t really been in his office for 3 hours at a time?
First off my understanding is that he claimed that the door was unlocked, and the room was his study.
In fact from what I understand hiw wife demonstrated that the door to that room was unlockable as it was misaligned.
Many people who have large families have rooms that serve dual purposes and yes and it is quite coomon for a study to have a bed in it, many people in my family have such rooms.
Considering the fact that from what I understand NW sort of had an open home and many children who were unable to stay in their own homes slept in his I think it is quite understandable why his room would have had a bed.
As for his sessions lasting 3-4 hours?
When I have had issue to discuss with my Rabbeim they sat with me for well over the 45-1:00 you describe.
They sat with me for however long was needed.
5-4-3-2-1- “closed”
“The Therapist”
I was wondering what to take away from this miscarriage of justice.
I was thinking that perhaps the lesson is to stay home all day because being in contact with people may lead to them to sue you.
and they’ll be believed because, you see, I’m weird, part of an extreme cult, so I must be guilty.
or,
that because “it is inconceivable that this was allowed” I really am guilty, so even if I stay home, I may somehow be convicted based on that alone.
or, as “The Therapist” points out, the lesson is…that? be careful out there. because not being “careful” can lead to 100 years in prison.
thanks for pointing that out.
sarc/off
I completley fail to see how the moral of this story is that one should only see licensed therepists.
From an abuse standpoint, the stats actually show a higher rate of abusers amongst therapists then the general population.
From a results standpoint.
Modern day therepy is still unable to point to any sort of widespread success.
Yes, of course thereapists can point to individual success stories. So can I , and I have no degree.
And my Rabbeim can point to a huge amount of success stories.
However they can’t point to any place where the implemantation of their theories have led to a communal improvements.
Mandated Reporting itself is something which has virtually no studies showing it helped.
In fact the reverse is true.
There is more evidence that mandated reporting has actually been counterproductive the productive!
I would actually think that the moral of this story is to turn to Mashgichim, Roshei Yeshivos, and Rabbonim more then therapists of any type as the implementation of Torah views on chinuch historically has produced communities with stable families and children who are capable of marrying and having a family at a young age.
Why would someone turn to therapists when the facts are that every community that has adopted their theories and turns to them to deal with specific cases is in complete shambles?
Whats the marriage rate in the secular world?
Whats the divorce rate?
Whats the abuse rate?
nobody is sticking up for anyone, the facts speak for themselves, our society is not as sheltered as we would like it to be. Chashdaihu vekabdaihu and not the opposite, kabdaihu ve’chahdaihu/
The Therapist -“how can anyone stick up for someone who was with a young girl in a room with a bed and 3 locks on the door?”
How can anyone stick up for such a verdict and claim to be a “Frum” Jew? And yet I’ve seen many “Frum” Jews doing just this.
Forget about how this was an injustice acc. to their Goyishe laws and how do I know this? Because just compare this case to the Anthony’s case in Florida. There the evidence was much stronger, but the Jury refused to convict because there was no smoking gun.
Here there was no corroborating evidence besides some therapist that the “girl” told the same story to. All the other evidence didn’t point directly to molestation. To me this just means she lied twice. But yet the Jury found him guilty. Probably due to the fact that anyone esp. a male accused of molesting a female is guilty until proven innocent because of the emotions of the Judge & Jury.
Back to my original comment. We actually have something called a Torah and all those Jews jumping in joy for putting away for good this so-called molester have no concern what it says. Well it says even if this guy would be guilty the punishment is for him to marry her and pay a fine. So all these “Frum” people screaming “Yahoo” are just arguing with Hashem and his Torah and they think they know better than G-d!
Why was this girl referred to a male therapist to begin with? There are many qualified female therapists….
What is the evidence that it didn’t occur?
People need to wake up and smell the ( pedophile).
“What is the evidence that this occurred?”
The 3 locks and the bed are physical evidence, not hearsay, Weberman admitted to their existence.
Rabbi Yakov Horowitz has received phone calls from women who claim to have been abused by Weberman.
Are they all lying? Is Weberman the only one who speaks the truth???
Oh please “whats the evidence”?!?!
He is guilty. I jury convicted him. She testified and since then at least one other victim has come forward. What a busha, a real chillul HaShem. He should sit for a very long time
Health said
How can anyone stick up for such a verdict and claim to be a “Frum” Jew? And yet I’ve seen many “Frum” Jews doing just this.
Forget about how this was an injustice
My response:
It is not anti-semitic Russia three hundred years ago. It is modern day America. He got tried in a fair court and it is absurd to think otherwise. Stop bleating about injustice. The guy deserved what he got.
What was his defence? That she was trying to set him up because – wait for it – he installed CCTV to catch her in the act with her boyfriend. Hardly a resounding proof of innocence – if anything just the opposite! Not to mention the fact that he couldn’t explain the unusual purchases on his credit card. Or that he was discovered to be misusing his charity funds. The whole picture was undeniably odd and sinister and pointed to his guilt.
The sad thing is that people like Ben Levi get completely the wrong end of the stick and instead of warning against going to unlicensed, unqualified ‘therapists’ he actually advocates going to Mashgichim, Rabbonim etc. Therapy requires qualified professionals. There was a case in London of a girl who called a Rov pleading for help as she felt suicidal. He told her to call back after Shabbos, by which time she had ended her life. There is also a London case now, of an unlicensed Rabbinical therapist embroiled in an enormous mess because of unlicensed ‘therapy’ he was giving.
“What is the evidence that it didn’t occur?”
MorachRach, that may be a valid question in some third-world country. In the U.S., however, the law is that you’re innocent until proven guilty…
This miscarriage of justice of a completely innocent human being by a vengeful evil woman who was caught in the worst kind of crime by her own father is not atypical of the broken American justice system. Like Rubashkin, he had his religion and dress going against him. It would be comical if it weren’t so sad how the gullible believe there is evidence where none was offered.
Are they all lying? Is Weberman the only one who speaks the truth??? “
It’s R’ Hoffman’s and the girl’s words against NW’s. R’ Hoffman’s claims that there are other victims does not make it fact. Not taking sides here, I am just uninformed of the evidence that was used to convict NW.
Morahrach,
You say “What is the evidence that it didn’t occur?” If that is your stance, then you too are guilty. Where is the evidence that you have not molested someone.
Health I sincerely hope you only have sons. C’v anything like this happened to your daughter she would probably be like the other girls molested by Webberman and afraid to come forward because people like you would shun her from the community.
Health,
We actually have something called a Torah and all those Jews jumping in joy for putting away for good this so-called molester have no concern what it says. Well it says even if this guy would be guilty the punishment is for him to marry her and pay a fine. So all these “Frum” people screaming “Yahoo” are just arguing with Hashem and his Torah and they think they know better than G-d!
We actually have something called a Torah that forbids Yichud.
Shraga and nisht, ” innocent until proven guilty”? He was proven guilty.. In a court of law. The end. I think it’s ” comical” that people like you will defend a ” frum” Jew until the ends of the earth because of his religion yet you fail you have compassion for a young girl who is one of you too.
My friend has been sharing a babysitter with a frum couple for the past 4 months. The other women claimed she caught her watching innappropriate videos online caught by their filter that her Rav had her install. The nanny who is a single mother trying to hold down 2 jobs was fired and… You guessed it, turns out it was the chofetz Chaim husband. Why don’t you take another strong look at this webberman case and see what you have overlooked just because you want to protect a Jew who in my opinion never was frum.
Responses like the ones here are exactly why we have these problems in the Jewish community. People, WAKE UP! It wasn’t just the word of the girl. The therapist confirmed it, and said the symptoms were those of a victim of abuse. I believe I read that the victim had told the therapist even before Weberman told her father about the boyfriend, so the reason Weberman gave is utter nonsense.
Enough of the covering up! It happened in Torah Temimah, it happened in other places, and it now happened in Williamsburg. When will we stop assuming it’s all anti-semitism and start really working towards putting an end to it?
The victim’s father has had to come out multiple times and say he did not support his daughter. Why? Because his business collapsed after the “Rebbe” told people not to use him. The family is not welcome in the community. Instead of giving them much needed support, they were kicked out. No wonder other victims didn’t want to come forward, with such mafia tactics!
The DA said that the cover-up and intimidation used by the community is worse than any mafia tactics he’s seen in the past. One chillul Hashem wasn’t enough, now they’re going for more! It’s time to really look around and see what’s going on, without rose colored glasses.
The verdict was extreme, much longer than verdicts in molestation cases normally are. Weberman will most likely die in prison. Hopefully this will shock the Williamsburg and greater Jewish Communities into taking abuse more seriously.
Hilchos Yichud protect us and protect our children. No therapist should have a locked door. There should be a window into the office where people can see in or a CCTV that can be watched by a nurse or secretary.
The gullible who believe this lying evil woman, despite the fact there is not a shred of any actual evidence, raise specious arguments such as yichud — something that NEVER occured — by saying “there were three locks on the door”. Of course they, in their zeal to prosecute the innocent, even if they are in denial that the locks were broken they are blinded by the fact that three locks offer no more protection than one lock. If someone wanted to sin one lock offers all they need and two more locks don’t do anything more than one does. And, of course, they pretend even if there was yichud — which there was not — that yichud is somehow even one one hundredth as bad as what they accuse him of and what he was falsely convicted of in a secular kangaroo court. The punishment for yichud is malkus not death in prison.
Then they raise that “the therapist believes her”. Well, therapists are wrong at least as often as they are right. And their thoughts, certainly, are far from being any sort of proof. Something that is completely and totally and utterly lacking. Due to his complete and absolute innocence.
The fact that he was sentenced to a longer term than MURDERERS and traitors and mafia killers, clearly demonstrate that the judge decided his guilt as soon as he saw his yarmulka.
Ok, lots of ranting, but still no evidence.
Just ask Sholom Rubashkin if the court system is fair to orthodox Jews.
I’m not saying he’s innocent, but I don’t know that he’s guilty either. Aside from yichud not proving worse occurred (although it would certainly be a black mark), I don’t know where this information that he was alone in a triple locked room comes from. So far, nobody’s told me a reliable source for this.
Of course there are horrible things going on in all communities. But when you go after someone with a good reputation, based on accusations from people with a horrible reputation (and no other evidence), how can you expect the community to react in any other way but as a victimized community?
If the point was to have the community take abuse more seriously, it had the reverse effect. They will take any further accusations with even more skepticism than before.
He testified on the stand that he took her on the trip upstate
Also the credit card receites from his charity are evidence. He never claimed the cars were stolen
The attempts to defend Webberman beggar belief.
The victim have been abused twice over, once by this pervert and once again by a community prepared to overlook his behaviour and turn against the victim and her family. No wonder people go off the derech! Fear of being alienated by a community is a great tool when it comes to silencing voices crying in pain and distress. Don’t you think your children deserve better?
sushee: ONCE AGAIN, you are an Avaryan for not testifying in court that there was no Yichud, no Triple locked doors, etc., which you KNOW for a FACT. I respectfully ask the mods to announce that such a person as yourself comes under the following RAMBAM in Chovel U’Mazik 8:12:
?? ??? ?? ???? ?????? ????? ????, ???? ?????? ??? ????? ?????? ??????? ???????; ??? ???? ??? ????, ???? ??????. ????? ???? ????? ?? ????, ??? ?? ?? ????? ???? ????, ???? ????? ???? ???????.
(This has a din of Tzibbur because of its effects on the Satmar Community.) As such, it is MUTTAR for all to physically force you into court to testify on behalf of NW.
I await your testimony.
The trip was with his wife. And he testified that the credit card was used by his wife to help those in need that the charity assisted. The prosecution did not dispute his testimony on these points.
You are in such sad denial! Yichud. DID occur and that is just the least of it. Why are you so quick to throw a young Jewish girl under the bus? Because she has some issues and questioned orthodoxy that makes her a monster? How about the countless monsters in Williamsburg who hurt young boys, do you agree that it’s good they are protected by their communities? People like you make me sick.
DY,
But when you go after someone with a good reputation, based on accusations from people with a horrible reputation (and no other evidence)
PEOPLE! We agree that thats plural! The DA and Rabbi Horowitz and people in the mental health profession are well aware of otherS. Plural!
Heard in shul this morning:
Jail sentences do not make sense, and efforts to explain them are futile. Incarceration does not rehabilitate, and no one possesses the knowledge to establish a time limit for punishment. The criminal does not contemplate the consequences of crime, and the fact that others received still penalties do not serve as a deterrent. The only reason to incarcerate is to protect society from criminals. Now, do we know anything about how long it takes for a guarantee that a crime will not be repeated? Nothing. Result is that sentencing is a tool to tell the public certain messages, and that is the only rational explanation for 103.
We would be wiser to hear the message, instead of the useless discussion about whether someone with chassidic garb is handled fairly in court. The reality is that our community is irresponsible, and damagingly so, in referring anyone to an untrained “therapist”, and cross-gender to boot. This guy here wantonly trashed hilchos yichud. He was warned many times, and did not care for fundamental halacha. I cannot determine the appropriate punishment, but he is a guilty man, and was long before any reports were made. The community did a gross disservice in how it handled the entire affair, and needs to revisit its approach to child safety.
If you all think the U.S. justice system is so stacked against frum Jews, then don’t do anything that brings you into the system. In fact, if you really think it’s so terrible, move out of the U.S. to someplace you think is better.
This seems like a frum version of One Flew Over the Cukoo’s Nest!
There are the Chronics who will deny and yell Anti-Semite to anything that goes against them. There are the Acutes who are in voluntary denial and arguing for the sake of it. There are the Staff and Trolls on this thread too.
This thread is pointless. 1 Vote for closure.
takah: There is nowhere better. This is golus. It is bad everywheee. Even in the medina.
Considering there is no proof even in the one and only case where he was falsely accused, it staggers the mind that anyone would believe anonymous allegations that there are others. Even if it is Horowitz hurling it around on his blog.
This seems like a frum version of One Flew Over the Cukoo’s Nest!
There are the Chronics who will deny and yell Anti-Semite to anything that goes against them. There are the Acutes who are in voluntary denial and arguing for the sake of it. There are the Staff and Trolls on this thread too.
This thread is pointless. 1 Vote for closure.
I’ll admit to being a Troll in this thread. Sometimes carrying a big stick & demanding some Spicy (red) Herring with TamTams appeals to me in a primitive way.
In exchange for some (CR) Herring, I’ll give you my vote.
TLKY,
“Proof” is word that has little meaning without a standard attached to it. There was plenty of evidence against Weberman. There was evidence for Weberman. The jury’s job is to determine which evidence weighs more. In this case it mostly came down to whom they viewed as more credible, her or him. If they view her as more credible, then the evidence against Weberman is very heavy and the evidence for him is light indeed.
The jury clearly viewed her as more credible and therefore were correct, based on their assessment, to find Weberman guilty.
Rabbi Horowitz, is a man of integrity and people trust him. He gives credibility to the anonymous allegations.
Leyzer -“It is not anti-semitic Russia three hundred years ago. It is modern day America. He got tried in a fair court and it is absurd to think otherwise. Stop bleating about injustice. The guy deserved what he got.”
Mr. -it would make sense to read my post before commenting on it.
I wrote they found him guilty, Not because of anti-semitism and Not because of evidence, only because of emotions!
“What was his defence? That she was trying to set him up because – wait for it – he installed CCTV to catch her in the act with her boyfriend. Hardly a resounding proof of innocence – if anything just the opposite! Not to mention the fact that he couldn’t explain the unusual purchases on his credit card. Or that he was discovered to be misusing his charity funds. The whole picture was undeniably odd and sinister and pointed to his guilt.”
Actually he tried to have the boyfriend arrested for stautory attack on a minor and this is what the girl wanted revenge on.
Pretty strange behavior for s/o who supposedly did the same thing. I’d think he’d join the guy instead of going after him, if he was into this kind of thing. And the misuse of money -has absolutely no bearing on his innocence or guilt in what he was on trial for.
MorahRach -“Health I sincerely hope you only have sons. C’v anything like this happened to your daughter she would probably be like the other girls molested by Webberman and afraid to come forward because people like you would shun her from the community.”
Stop using your emotions over here. Base your opinion on the facts. Why do you automatically believe a girl who went OTD way before a respectable person, who has been Frum all his life, even met her? Is it your hatred to other Frum Jews who aren’t exactly like you – like a lot of the posters here, that made you think this way? This case is just – he says -she says, nothing more.
chalilavchas -“We actually have something called a Torah that forbids Yichud.”
Really? So you’re basing your opinion on what the Torah holds? Were you there -so at least there is an Eid Echad saying he had Yichud? No, you weren’t! And he says the door wasn’t locked. Maybe his Rabbi told him that’s enough Not to be Yichud?!?!
Your opinion is based on your hatred to Chassidim/Satmar and btw I’m not either of those.
Health you clearly have no experience in the outside world and now once and for all I believe your sole purpose he is to troll. No “medical degree”, no life experience outside of your shtetl. You are in such utter denial and should just stop posting.
I have no idea if he is guilty or not, but I do know 2 things:
1- You cannot believe everything in the media. So if you read about certain aspects of the court case, don’t be too sure that you got the whole story.
2- Just because someone is convicted in a court of law, it does NOT mean he is guilty. There are have been hundreds of false convictions (of which some were later overturned) in the history of our justice system.
So don’t rant either way about a case you know nothing about (even if you think you do).
This is why some ‘mental health professionals’ diagnose their clients with Borderline Personality Disorder – so that if the client accuses the therapist of any type of ethics breach, the therapist can defend themselves by saying, ‘the client has a history of lying/instability/etc and is just saying this because they didn’t like what I said to them’.
In reality, many women diagnosed with BPD have been pushed so far in abuse situations that acting out is the only way they can cope with the abuse that happened prior to seeing the therapist. (I say women because men with BPD tend to end up in prison rather than in treatment.) Saying that the client has a certain past doesn’t prove that they couldn’t possibly be victimized again by someone in a position of trust.
Health,
Why do you think he had the locks on the door?
Weberman will be so lonely for the next century.
He needs Mondrowitz to keep him company in his cell.
MR -“Health you clearly have no experience in the outside world and now once and for all I believe your sole purpose he is to troll. No “medical degree”, no life experience outside of your shtetl. You are in such utter denial and should just stop posting.”
Since I hit the nail on the head about your emotions and I’m a lot older and more mature than you, instead of defending myself against your outlandish post, I’ll just ignore it. Please try from now on to look at things using your intelligence only, not your emotions. Actually this is the Torah way on how to look at things.
benignuman -“Why do you think he had the locks on the door?”
First of all, are you the former poster whose SN was Avi K?
Even if I couldn’t guess -why is that a smoking gun of guilt?
But I can think of a few reasons. 1. The room was once owned by elderly and they felt they needed many locks to protect them. 2. He put on the locks because he had kids/teenagers, from the street, not his, sleeping in that room at night and he slept in his bedroom. So he put on one and it broke and then he put on another and another, without taking off the first one. In Brooklyn, it’s very common to have two locks on a door. One a dead bolt and the other a chain to open a little to see who it is.
benignuman:
What locks? As DaasYochid asked, where did this rumor of three locks come from? It ain’t so cause the blogs say so. And how would three locks help more than the one lock every door has, anyways.
MorahRach: I don’t believe Health is a troll. I firmly believe he displays the same behavior in real life.
And the pathetic and illogical statement he made that made you think he’s not a Health practitioner doesn’t mean he can’t be very competent in some Health occupation. Such behavior doesn’t mean a lack of intelligence and knowledge in other areas.
When I see Horowitz promoting Lapin, his neutrality becomes suspect.
When the woman who testified on Weberman’s behalf is vilified by so called victims’ advocates with filthy lies, while their “victim” is not allowed to be criticized at all, I wonder, is this how you promote the truth?
When credit card purchases are presented as evidence even though the victim never mentioned anything regarding them just because the store names sound salacious ( BTW I was recently at one of their stores in BP and they DID NOT have underwear for sale AT ALL) I wonder why stoop so low?
When I read how bored guys taking pictures in court is considered a choreographed campaign to intimidate and “out” her when you wouldn’t find anybody in Willy that doesn’t know her name I wonder some more.
When media accounts extol her as beautiful while Weberman is described as anything but, with even his beard getting a bad rap, I wonder isn’t a jury human with natural biases, why not place a media gag order while the trial is on (yes, some info would leak out but the jurors are probably not in the loop and would have to seek it out and it wouldn’t be as juicy as the NYP)?
When he gets 103 years with no concrete evidence I wonder how impartial was the judge all along?
So MR remind me again who’s in denial here?
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