The world is in a state of Geula- and don’t misunderstand us!

Home Forums Controversial Topics The world is in a state of Geula- and don’t misunderstand us!

Viewing 50 posts - 601 through 650 (of 2,053 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #1625056
    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    Lololololol.

    OK, that’s now my favorite part of this whole thread.

    #1625074

    “In fact the only known Yeshiva that predated the Frierdiker Rebbe that I am aware of is Torah Vodaas.”

    Yeshivas Chafetz Chaim
    Chaim Berlin
    New Haven, after a couple of metamorphoses presently Ner Israel
    Skokie
    MTJ
    RJJ
    Chafetz Chaim TA of Baltimore
    There was also something of the sort in Toronto

    #1625076

    “I am well aware that Chabbad had a Yeshiva, Rav Gustman had a position there.”
    He was advised to leave in the late ’40s. Which he did.

    ” he supported all Torah institutions and launched programs for even frum kids…”
    The Vaad Hatzoloh rescue during the war was cross political and cross ideological. The only grouping
    that gave them difficulty working with was Chabad.

    #1625283

    1) He is regarded as a Gadol b’Torah by the Gedolim already established as such.
    This means that they give serious weight to his opinion in their own Halachic rulings.
    2) His Torah is studied widely in Yeshivos and Kollelim
    3) Community Rebbeim (of various communities) turn to this person with their own shailos

    There have been many known tzaddikim who did not meet all of those criteria.

    #1625284

    According to the Wikipedia page on The Rebbe, the Messiah, and the Scandal of Orthodox Indifference, the book includes a letter from Rabbi Ahron Soloveichik to a friend explaining his position. The letter is quoted on the Wikipedia page.

    #1625525
    CS
    Participant

    Regarding ahavas yisrael (syag, Rso):

    The Alter Rebbe teaches in perek 32 Tanya that we should view every yid as a spiritual sibling as we all have one Father, and we should love them as such. As for the problems that could cause by condoning evil etc. The Alter Rebbe advises to hate the bad that people do and bad habits etc. but to arouse rachmonus for them within ourselves for them, so we regard the actual person with love.

    Now have you ever been on non speaking terms with a sibling or spouse because they wronged you, but at the same time you love them unconditionally and would run to help them if they were in deep trouble? Or maybe even you know you will make up quickly because of the underlying love.

    Loving someone does not mean you cannot hate the way they treat you, protest their actions, disagree with them etc. It does mean that push comes to shove, you care for them and love them in a deeper way than the disagreement.

    Regarding what I wrote about perek 12 how we need to push away bad thoughts with two hands as soon as they enter our minds, that refers to lashon hara in thought. But the same way you are allowed to tell neighbours that someone swindled you even if it’s lashon hara, ie you are allowed to speak it for toeles, you are allowed to think it as well for toeles. Perek 12 was discussing purely dwelling on the bad just for the sake of it, with no toeles (say to figure out whether to hold of this person as a spiritual guide in your life for example.) hope this clarifies my posts above.

    #1625568
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    without reading your response, I will assume by the length that you, once again, did not give a yes or no answer to your very own true false statement.
    sigh

    #1625610
    RSo
    Participant

    CS: “Regarding ahavas yisrael (syag, Rso)…”

    I don’t know why I got a mention here. I didn’t question the meaning of Ahavas Yisrael. What I did say was that I don’t believe your statement – and I have heard it many times from many lubavichers – that your rebbe loved every Jew.

    #1625615
    CS
    Participant

    Np ah I see what you mean I didn’t need to write that bit about the FR.

    Regarding the estimation of Torah leaders I think my categories still stand. The Gerrer Rebbe, Baba Sali and reb zusia for example weren’t involved with writing halacha (as far as I know) and were still seen as tzaddikim..

    What I meant by Eliyahu hanavi and har hacarmel was that rashi there says that someone who is known to you to be a tzadik (or whatever equivalent term is used), you follow him unless he tells you to serve another god or permanently cancels a mitzvah.

    This shows that the criterion here is not a specific list – just he is known and trusted to Torah true Jews by his behaviour etc.

    Also yes Torah true adherents add value. We see that ain melech blo am, and the Kings of today are the Rabbonim and Torah leaders. If someone tells you so and so is a Rebbe and he has two chassidim, you will think less of him than a Rebbe who has a thousand, because the fact that a thousand Torah true yidden have chosen him to inspire and guide their Avodas Hashem gives him more credence.

    And lastly by learning their Torah we see what kind of person or Torah great they were. Like the Or Hachaim for example

    And like we both said how he is seen by other Torah leaders of his time

    #1625618
    CS
    Participant

    Syag if you can’t bother reading my post written because you didn’t get my previous post, so yeah it will elaborate more, then I won’t bother writing them up for you. Not everything is yes or no. Some can be yes and no as you would see above

    #1625633
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    Don’t attack me because you can’t dig yourself out of this, I understood your posts perfectly. YOU made a clear black and white statement. YOU did, not me and not other posters. YOU said in simple true vs false, black vs white English that your rebbe loves EVERY Jew. Was this TRUE or was it a lie? It is your statement. Is it true or isn’t it? one word answer.
    Cuz if the answer is not just simply YES, then your statement is sheker and should never have been made.

    Yes, or no.

    #1625646
    tfaceBURN
    Participant

    I’m surprised that no one has mentioned that the official Lubavitch policy is that the Tanya is Torah Shebeksav of Chassidus and that you are not allowed to put a Sefer Torah on top of a Tanya.

    Anyone want to comment on that?

    #1625642
    CS
    Participant

    “I think you missed the point. How do you know that what you consider “resonating with your neshama” is not yetzer hara? What about all the born again xians for whom oso ha’ish “resonated” with ther souls? What about all those people in love with people with whom they should not have a relationship for numerous reasons who feel the “resonation”? The fact that you believe that what resonates with your neshama is pure does not prove anything.”

    We are talking two different things. I guess if you’ve never experienced it you won’t know what I’m talking about. But I also know this feeling is experienced by many I have come in contact with as well.

    Firstly it is silly to bring examples from non Jews etc because they don’t have a neshama so they can’t experience what I’m referring to. (Ill explain what that is soon.)

    Secondly people fall into things that help them justify their wrong decisions or even help them become better people in some way, or feel good etc. And that can all be anti Torah. I’m not talking about that either.

    So what am I talking about? How about the shabbos atmosphere after candle lighting. That neshama sense of holiness. Goyim don’t have that. So that’s a start to understand what I’m talking about.

    But really what I mean is when something clicks to the core of the neshama and uplifts the whole person with the resulting joy. I feel this way when I learn Chassidus, especially when its been some time. To the point that my friends will ask me what happened to me that I’m so upbeat more than usual. They joke that I get high off Chassidus.

    And its not just me. I have friends and acquaintances who have reported the same feeling when learning Chassidus.

    A famous example : rebbetzin vechter, when her husband y taught her her first sicha, she asked what is this? He admitted it is the Rebbe’s Torah. (Being Satmar) she exclaimed,”THIS is kefira?! If so bring it on!” She felt its truth so deeply and felt it light up her neshama to that extent.

    Its not just Chassidus. It can be experiencing a mitzva. My mother became frum this way as she studied many religions but nothing clicked and she wasn’t satisfied. As soon as she walked into her first shabbos table, the shabbos atmosphere clicked and resonated deeply, and she’s been unwaveringly frum ever since. I also felt this same neshama high as a girl when I helped a mother who had given birth out with her kids, so she could recover.

    And as mentioned its this neshama resonance that makes shluchim successful with the yidden they come in contact with.

    #1625644
    CS
    Participant

    “When someone asks you about your attitude about certain gedolim, and your answer
    (#1624910) contains a comparison to someone’s attitude about “a Jew who clearly follows
    a non-Torah path,” you’re kind of inviting trouble (even if you didn’t mean it that way).”

    I hear that. I was also pretty confident I wouldn’t be misunderstood as my point was to get her to admit that ahavas yisrael does not mean that you cannot strongly disagree with whatever hashkafa, and also doesn’t mean respect for any yids positions/ the person himself (respect as as in looking up to etc) and as is the norm when you being out, I used an extreme example

    #1625645
    CS
    Participant

    “Rav Aharon Feldman has written* that even if it’s not problematic to consider a dead
    person to be Moshiach who will return, it cannot be considered sensible to believe
    that out of all the niftarim of Klal Yisrael, Moshiach will be the Lubavitcher Rebbe.

    *in The Eye of the Storm”

    I completely understand that. And I don’t think it’s necessarily worth rebutting even though I know for myself why that’s not the case.

    To give you an example: I have a yid I’m in contact with who unfortunately doesn’t yet keep shabbos. Once I broached the topic with her and she explained to me that she needs her job because she needs to pay her rent and bills, and if she quits her job who will pay her rent?! It doesn’t make sense.

    Is her logic sound? Yes. Do I agree with her? No. But that’s because I have a different mindframe which includes living above nature, Hashem’s abilities etc. But she’s not there. So all I can do (aside for offering to fundraise around for her rent if she takes the step) is draw her closer until she gets there…

    #1625656
    Non Political
    Participant

    @ Random3X

    “There have been many known tzaddikim who did not meet all of those criteria”

    I didn’t say one needed to meet ALL of the criteria

    #1625647
    Non Political
    Participant

    Love and hate are not binary. There is no inherent contradiction in having both feelings towards the same person. I know that sounds counterintuitive and I myself would not have thought so had I not heard Rabbi David Gottlieb develops this point exquisitely in one of his lectures.

    #1625648
    CS
    Participant

    Randomex
    “Considering that no person perceived as chashuv by the non-Chabad
    Orthodox world has ever done so, we’ll be in excellent company.”

    I don’t agree with his statement at all. The Rebbe said no Jew will be left behind in general when moshiach comes, even the not frum..how much more so the frum. When the time comes for moshiach to finally redeem us, I’m sure Hashem will engineer it in such a way that everyone will gladly accept him

    #1625650
    RSo
    Participant

    CS: “What I meant by Eliyahu hanavi and har hacarmel was that rashi there says that someone who is known to you to be a tzadik (or whatever equivalent term is used), you follow him unless he tells you to serve another god or permanently cancels a mitzvah.”

    As far as I remember it is not at all an equivalent term. It is a navi who is known to be a true navi. We don’t have one of those nowadays, regardless of the outlandish claims of the Lubavicher rebbe.

    #1625655
    CS
    Participant

    Yeshivish rockstar
    “CS, We all know chabad “loves” jews that aren’t frum. It’s whether they love Jews who are frum that concerns us here.”

    Sorry I didn’t reply earlier. I was busy getting ready to host 150 frum yidden who landed here last minute… Jk. But you get my point. We are always happy to help out frum yidden who need help as much as not yet frum. The frum community tends to treat us with more suspicion and otherness than the not yet frum, and lubavitchers get quite upset when they feel our Rebbe is being disrespected so it just makes things more complicated.

    #1625657
    CS
    Participant

    Yeshivish rockstar
    “(A chabad shliach once told me “it’s better to be a frei yid who holds the rebbe’s moshiach than a snag who’s frum. CS, do you agree with that? Because, IMHO, that;s EXACTLY how xtianity got started.)”

    That sounds quite incendiary and inflammatory. I’d love to hear the context as it makes a big difference to understanding the actual statement. Let’s take two extremes:

    Extreme 1: the shliach is visiting your hometown, sees you on the street and identifies you as a “snag” as you put it, and says the above.

    Extreme 2: you are visiting India and ask the local shliach to host and feed you. He does, and in the course of the meal, you tell him you think he’s an apikorus if he holds his Rebbe to be moshiach (curiously that doesn’t stop you from drinking the cholov Yisrael milk he personally milked for you, nor from munching on his wife’s cooking.) at that point he says the above.

    #1625664
    apushatayid
    Participant

    Yawn.

    #1625666
    CS
    Participant

    Syag something is clearly being lost in translation. You are taking my posts as attacks – as you put it – while I find very many of your posts to be mocking, scornful and misunderstanding my points. I have been patiently attempting to nevertheless respond, assuming I am just misreading you, but if we just don’t get each other (that can also be due to everything being put in writing instead of speaking) I don’t really see why I should continue to respond to your posts…

    #1625667
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    someone who is known to you to be a tzadik (or whatever equivalent term is used), you follow him unless he tells you to serve another god or permanently cancels a mitzvah.

    You mean like, for example, sleeping in the succah?

    #1625668
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    “When someone asks you about your attitude about certain gedolim, and your answer
    (#1624910) contains a comparison to someone’s attitude about “a Jew who clearly follows
    a non-Torah path,” you’re kind of inviting trouble (even if you didn’t mean it that way).”

    I hear that.

    You say you hear that, yet in your very next post you compare Rav Aharon Feldman to a mechallel Shabbos rachmono litzlon.

    #1625679
    CS
    Participant

    Coffee addict
    Btw I wasnt evading the mamash thing. We in lubavitch say mamash all the time and we mean its plain meaning. Even TT to show what he meant added “. Because typically we mean it in its plain sense

    #1625695
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    So if you cant say “yes he does love every jew”, then i guess it’s a statement you shouldnt be making to begin with.

    #1625704
    CS
    Participant

    “You say you hear that, yet in your very next post you compare Rav Aharon Feldman to a mechallel Shabbos rachmono litzlon.”

    DY I definitely wasn’t. The example was to bring out the point that sometimes logic can apply in one level but be irrelevant on another level with different factors involved.

    #1625705
    CS
    Participant

    OK syag I’ll try once more.
    (Np put it well as well) yes the Rebbe loved every Jew. No that doesn’t mean what you’re defining as ahavas yisrael. To understand more you can read my posts

    #1625709
    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    CS for your response to Yeshiva Rockstar:

    What you’re implying is that if it were “extreme 2,” it would be OK that the shliach said it? The point was not that he said something offensive; it’s that he actually believed something like that.

    Also, even if it were “extreme 2,” I would say there was context to the context. On this thread, for example, it feels like the only way to get straight-forward, honest answers out of you people is to let it get to the point where you get angry at us. Otherwise, we keep getting 5 page essays that don’t answer our questions. Your shluchus dodging techniques are what is escalating the arguments, not dampening them.

    #1625719
    CS
    Participant

    Yes I think in extreme 2 such a statement could be justified (not that id make it myself.) context is key. Also btw the fact that this anecdote even occurred is strange, because the only shliach who would be so forthcoming about his thoughts on the Rebbe would likely be an Israeli shliach not under merkaz. And they make that very obvious with yechi yarmulkes and all. So that would make extreme two even more extreme. In short I can’t give an opinion on the statement unless I understand where it came in and what was meant by it.

    #1625738
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    “OK syag I’ll try once more.”

    that’s a funny way to word something you are finally answering for the FIRST time after a handful of requests. But if it helps you feel like I’m the one who has been dodging questions, well, feel free I guess.

    And thanks for the extra bit about my definition, which I have not given nor is it relevant. You were merely asked to qualify a statement you had already made on your own.

    #1625723
    Non Political
    Participant

    @ CS

    “Gerrer Rebbe, Baba Sali and reb zusia for example weren’t involved with writing halacha (as far as I know) and were still seen as tzaddikim..This shows that the criterion here is not a specific list – just he is known and trusted to Torah true Jews by his behaviour etc.

    This is true. Another example would be the Ramchal, we don’t have Halachic works from him. One could even point out that there was a strong opposition to him by other leading sages during his lifetime (a cherem on certain works even).

    You are right that the list of 3 criteria wasn’t meant as a check list per se, it’s not that you need “all of the above” and davka these 3. You asked me what I would consider objective criteria for determining who is a Gadol and I gave 3 examples. However what they have in common is not “he is known and trusted to Torah true Jews by his behaviour etc”. Rather the common denominator is the seriousness with which other Rabbonim take his Torah.

    Next point

    “Also yes Torah true adherents add value. We see that ain melech blo am, and the Kings of today are the Rabbonim and Torah leaders. If someone tells you so and so is a Rebbe and he has two chassidim, you will think less of him than a Rebbe who has a thousand, because the fact that a thousand Torah true yidden have chosen him to inspire and guide their Avodas Hashem gives him more credence.”

    The ARI HaKadosh, The RMCH”L, the GR”A and the BSH”T had a small number of direct Talmidim. No one considers them less of a Rebbe because of this.

    Next Point

    “And lastly by learning their Torah we see what kind of person or Torah great they were. Like the Or Hachaim for example”

    Not necessarily. The learner has to be competent to evaluate.

    #1625737
    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    “Yes I think in extreme 2 such a statement could be justified”

    Just as a reminder, this was the statement which you find justifiable:
    “it’s better to be a frei yid who holds the rebbe’s moshiach than a snag who’s frum.”

    If a black person provoked a shliach would it justify using racial slurs?

    #1625744
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    Why would being upset with an individual justify putting down frum people and calling them snags? Are you for real? You make statements like these that are undefensible and then spend pages explaining that we misunderstood. So if you irritate me or call Rav Ahron Kotler “that man” is it now okay for me to make a statement about the lubavitch community and call them some nivel peh? That statement is never okay, and to write it off as a statement by an Israeli not under mirkaz with a crazy kippa is lame.

    #1625749
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Yes I think in extreme 2 such a statement could be justified (not that id make it myself.)

    So you’re too nice to actually say it, but you do agree that a frei Yid who believes the Rebbe is Moshiach is better than a misnaged who doesn’t hold of the Rebbe.

    #1625775
    Sechel HaYashar
    Participant

    CS,
    I’m not sure why you gave an example of a crazy story from India etc, to justify the alleged comments of a supposed Shliach.
    1. You can just say you wouldn’t say something crazy like that.
    2. You don’t agree at all with such sentiment.
    3. No Shliach you know would ever say otherwise think that.

    To make up a possible context to justify it is ludicrous. Let’s say a bitter guy come to my Chabad House and said those things, how can I tell him “better be frei than not believe the Rebbe is Moshiach”. Firstly, that’s not true, and you don’t think it is either, so why justify it?

    Secondly, I’ve had open conversations with the kinds of non frum Israelis that visit India and such places, none of them believe the Rebbe is Moshiach, even if they take Chabads free food. Food is the way to the heart, not the brain:)
    And this “Israeli Shliach not under Merkos” business, don’t make a fake story complete with fake characters to find a justification. The wacko Israelis with yellow flags and Yechi Yarmulkes in India (besides for Mumbai and Bangalore, which are real normal Shluchim) aren’t “Israeli Shluchim” they’re Israelis who self identify as Shluchim. You can’t be a Shliach “not under Merkos” it’s like being a US Marine not affiliated with the army. Every Shliach is under Merkos, if he’s not, he’s not a Shliach.

    To make it clear, such a statement is disgusting, and I don’t know any Lubavitch who would say such a thing. CS, you took the bait, someone makes up a ridiculous story, hoping you’ll justify it, and you did.

    #1625789
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    SH – thank you for saying everything she should have but doesn’t. It is nice to know that there is a faction who don’t hold of some of the things she is trying to defend. And I appreciate your honesty. At least until your last line. I wish you would understand that she is not being baited. I believe are 100% wrong about that. I believe we are being baited, if anyone. We are being drawn in by comments that change to other things when pursued and become misunderstandings and things that we are all just to uninformed and uneducated to understand.

    I do believe that you would have answered most of this thread differently, and probably would not have drawn half the responses, but nobody is baiting her, nobody needs to bait her. She is, unfortunately, as you see in the example which you thankfully rescued, doing her own damage.

    #1625811
    TAS
    Participant

    Syag, She never said that she and the Rebbe loved Rav Shach and Rav Kolter. She just repeated her statement that he loved every yid.
    CS, can you please say the following to prove your point. “Even though the Rebbe disagreed/argued strongly against Rav Shach and Rav Kolter, he stilled loved them”. Thank you

    #1625821
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    non-political – I have heard Rabbi Gottlieb say that and I agree completely. The point here is that she made a claim that her rebbe loves every yid but won’t say that he loves Rav Shach and Rav Kotler. She is just trying to hop on to your vort and say that because love and hate *can* coexist, there is no stira. But she still won’t say that he loves them (just that it is possible), and she won’t say *she* loves them, and she won’t say that anyone who *doesn’t* love them is doing an aveira according to the alter rebbe. (And not allowing a gadol’s sforim in your house is very hateful)

    So while the point you bring is true, it has not been applied here. And knowing Rabbi Gottlieb, he probably would never make such a definitive, black vs white, true vs false claim in the first place!

    #1625818
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    she has torn the question into so many small pieces until it was finally a little scrap of paper that she felt she could begrudgingly answer. Do you get the impression from that that there is a possibility she will admit to the contradiction she has presented and address the fact that it is a valid problem? forget it.

    #1625823
    Non Political
    Participant

    @ SH

    “To make up a possible context to justify it is ludicrous”

    Do you mean ludicrous because no context could possibly exist under which such a statement would be true?

    How about this:

    The Shliach has 2 guests.

    Guy 1 – Is Frei (not careful with kashrus, relationships with other gender, ect) but not mechalel Shabbos publicly and not an oved Avoda Zora

    Guy 2 – Holds there isn’t going to be ANY Moshiach.

    During the course of the meal Guy 2 says: Yo, there ain’t gonna be no Moshiach because “Its a like a bferush genara man, ain Moshiach l’Yisroel! And if there was a Moshiach, you think it would be your Rebbe?! Gee, you lubabs are really nuts. Hey, is this cholent mehadrin cause I only eat mehadrin man.

    The shliach is taken aback. Then, deciding that with some people you gotta be a bit blunt, responds. Your asking me about mehadrin?! If you don’t believe in Moshiach that guy over there (nods in direction of Guy 1) is better off then you are?! And if I’m such a apikoros why are you eating my cholent in the first place?

    Maybe, you meant ludicrous because you deem such a scenario as highly unlikely and you hold ludicrous is a synonymous for not likely.

    #1625845
    Sechel HaYashar
    Participant

    @NonPolitical:
    (Oh, the irony!)
    Saying on doesn’t believe the Rebbe to be Moshiach and denying the Bias HaMoshiach are two very different things. If one doesn’t believe in the coming of Moshiach he’s a Kofer Bikkar, while one who doesn’t believe the Rebbe is Moshiach hasn’t committed any Aveirah.

    That being the case, Person #1 is not a Kofer, while Person #2, though he insists on Mehadrin Cholent, is still a Kofer. To quote the Rambam:
    הַמֶּלֶךְ הַמָּשִׁיחַ עָתִיד לַעֲמֹד… …וכָל מִי שֶׁאֵינוֹ מַאֲמִין בּוֹ. אוֹ מִי שֶׁאֵינוֹ מְחַכֶּה לְבִיאָתוֹ. לֹא בִּשְׁאָר נְבִיאִים בִּלְבַד הוּא כּוֹפֵר. אֶלָּא בַּתּוֹרָה וּבְמשֶׁה רַבֵּנוּ.
    I don’t think this is new information to you, so why exactly we’re you asking this question?

    #1625882
    RSo
    Participant

    A number of us seem to be having great difficulty in getting Yes or No answers to direct questions from CS. Perhaps we should compile a list of those questions and then nag and nag until we get answers.

    I would suggest that to be fair CS should be allowed to give explanations to her Yes or No answer, but only in a different post after having first answered the question.

    If people agree we need someone to compile the list. Any takers?

    #1625878
    CS
    Participant

    Np
    Good point about the Ari Zal etc. Like we said it’s not necessarily a list of must have but common pointers we see by those Torah leaders / tzaddikim

    #1625881
    RSo
    Participant

    CS: “I guess if you’ve never experienced it you won’t know what I’m talking about. But I also know this feeling is experienced by many I have come in contact with as well.

    So what am I talking about? How about the shabbos atmosphere after candle lighting. That neshama sense of holiness. Goyim don’t have that. So that’s a start to understand what I’m talking about.
    But really what I mean is when something clicks to the core of the neshama and uplifts the whole person with the resulting joy.”

    You’re missing the point. How do you know that it is “clicking” with your neshama and not with your yetzer hara. What you are describing above is what most lubavichers make fun of as Chagas/Poilisher-chassidus!

    Not frum Yidden are still full Yidden, so why shouldn’t they think that something they have learnt in a reform temple, and which is R”L against the Torah, is “clicking with their neshama”. It’s very dangerous ground that you are treading.

    I once had someone tell me that he has a spiritual uplift when the Yankees win a game! Seriously. He really thought that it clicked with his neshama.

    #1625909
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    RSo – no, forget it. Several of us have pushed for answers, even just clarifying statements already made, and pushing for actual responses has resulted in being called agressive, attacking, baiting, misunderstanding, not reading the posts, not having a background to know the answer, being a hater, being anti libavitch and being insincere. By several different chabadniks. So either there is no allowamce for asking a question and expecting a straight answer, or really we are just a bunch of snags who will always be accused of having an agenda.

    #1625912
    CS
    Participant

    Syag and others: yes the Rebbe did love every Jew even the ones we don’t talk about (and if TT objects to that I will direct him to the sicha I can confidently base my assertion on.)

    Rso: Imagine a goy came up to you and said do you believe “Atem kruim adam vain haakum korui adam?” Yes or no. That would not be very fair at all. Because what you mean by yes and what he understands by yes is very different.

    But I think I’ve explained enough by now of context that youre welcome to compile your yes and no questions if you’d like, and if I answer something that seems strange, you can ask me for context, or question how can that be based on such and such, not just you’re crazy etc. Obviously if you rush to attack a simple yes or no you will disprove yourselves from being able to demand a Yes or no answer. We can try it may how’s that?

    #1625911
    CS
    Participant

    @sechel
    Of course its easy to condemn but it’s not the right thing to do to rush to condemn. Ahavas yisrael starts at home. At first I was thinking that shliach must be crazy I’ll just say he’s crazy. Then I thought wait a second. If he’s a shliach that means he devotes his life to helping all yidden. He should be schooled in ahavas yisrael by now. It’s quite out of character for a shliach to say something like that. So maybe there’s context im missing. If the context clarifies that it was a crazy statement im happy to say so. Torah teaches us not to rush to judge.

    And np suits his name quite well. He is clearly not Chabad but has been real a mentch and focused on understanding what we’re saying instead of rushing to judge. I wish we were all like him. He was giving you a context where that statement could have been justifiable. No need to attack him for not rushing to attack me for not rushing to condemn a quote with no context.

    #1625914
    CS
    Participant

    Rso you are right that that can be a dangerous path to tread on its own. And that’s why in normal situations we ask what the halacha is and don’t rely on how neshama deep it is. But it can definitely add. And in rare cases even be relied upon (such as pinchas, Queen Esther etc)

Viewing 50 posts - 601 through 650 (of 2,053 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.