The world is in a state of Geula- and don’t misunderstand us!

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  • #1636474

    Toi
    Participant

    @CS- “Also we see the way the Rebbe treated the Frierdiker Rebbe – on the one hand the Rebbe (the year after the Frierdiker Rebbes histalkus) directed chassidim to bring their panim to the Frierdiker Rebbe and said he’s with us just like before with no difference. The Rebbe even said that if someone says the Frierdiker Rebbe has passed on he is a pere Adam a vilde mentch!!”

    Hysterical. I’ve literally quoted the sichas you paraphrase here as a question on lubavitch practice, and you bring it as a source. Nuts.

    @username, Cs, et al: I’m done. I don’t have koach to point out every logical inconsistency, the scary crazy hanhagos, and research the points I want to make. I have a real, actually very demanding, life, and can’t afford wasting more time. I quit the CR for a few years until relatively recently, and now I remember why. At the end of the day, I’m thoroughly convinced that lubavitchers and muslims have something in common; the muslim concept of Taqiyya. You can google or wiki it if you don’t know what it means. I honestly have come away from these “conversations” more wary of lubavitchers, and see no tachlis in pursuing the discussion.

    #1636514

    username123321
    Participant

    I feel like I’m understanding people here more and more.

    I’ll disagree with out on that.

    #1636510

    Toi
    Participant

    Okay, I’ll break my rule one more time, only because rso called me out on it. Answer: I was laying a trap. They didn’t say it, they wouldn’t say it, they’ll never say it, and it should be obvious to all why. See my sign off post.

    #1636571

    samthenylic
    Participant

    OK! Shoin! Let’s put this thread to sleep. Neither side will capitulate, and this back-and-forth will go on “biz Moshiach wett kumen”.
    Good Night…

    #1636587

    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Btw I think this is the longest thread we’ve had so far. Yasher koach everyone. I feel like I’m understanding people here more and more.

    No,

    The joke thread has 2010 posts

    #1636611

    Non Political
    Participant

    @ CS

    “However he told Rabbi Avtzon, if you see things differently, it’s your *chov* to go out and teach it!”

    Interesting. I don’t see that as an endorsement. More like go do your thing and be vocal about it so that everyone knows what your views are.

    #1636678

    Yeshivishrockstar
    Participant

    Nah lets continue – this is fun!

    #1637140

    Chabadshlucha
    Participant

    Syag:
    “CS – I listened to the first few moments of the video you referenced. When he spoke of all the yom tovim, but then referred to the uber uber yom tov of all yom tovim – 19 kislev I was pretty sickened. So should you be. So is everyone else.”

    Syag he was referring to the top of the Chabad chassidishe yomim tovim – ie special Chabad dates (There are a good few) of which YTK is definitely top.

    #1637161

    Chabadshlucha
    Participant

    Rso
    “Yes, a lot of people are like that. But with lubavicher shechitah the rule is that our shochtim are yirei shamayim because they learn chassidus, so the fact that some of them go to places that no frum Yid should go to etc (I don’t want to elaborate in detail, but I KNOW facts) is irrelevant. The other shochtim don’t learn chassidus so they have less yiras shamayim.”

    Na that’s not true. If we have a choice between someone who isn’t fit to be a shochet or someone who doesn’t learn Chassidus (btw learning Chassidus doesn’t have to be a luv) we would either go for the second one or go without the meat altogether.

    The whole thing of learning Chassidus is that shechita in general is an awesome responsibility and there are many things that can go wrong. The Rebbe said something to the effect of that if someone learns Chassidus, the Rebbe takes responsibility that it will all go well. That doesn’t mean you keep on a shochet who is unfit to be a shochet.

    I think There was also a story with one of the previous Rebbeim who were asked if the chassidim could eat the shechita of a German shochet who didn’t have a beard. The Rebbe said that they could because in the German cities, the lack of a beard was not an indicator of less yiras shomayim. Although for a lubavitcher, they would not eat from his shechita if he even trimmed.

    #1637151

    Chabadshlucha
    Participant

    Sechel:
    “CS,
    That’s very cheap. Because you don’t like my opinions you don’t get to invoke “Detroiter Bochurim”.”

    I apologize. TBH I didn’t think you’d get offended by that from what you’ve written but ok im happy to take it back.

    “Clearly, you’ve never met a Detroiter, plus, I never learned in Detroit a day in my life.”

    Yeah true it’s not like I meet that many bochurim in any case but yes. I have yet to meet a detroiter although username may be one, no?

    “And, how dare you call the Rebbe not normal? Because you choose to twist his words, and then decide it’s not normal, and then not normal becomes a positive thing?”

    Please show me where I twisted the Rebbe’s words. Twisting, as far as I know, is when you quot something out of context and then give it a new context to make it sound like the author meant something else. (YR actually did this with his first Rabbi wolf quote)

    I quoted some things the Rebbe said without adding any context, just simply asking if that’s normal. One thing I’ve learned on this forum is that the kinds of things the Rebbe said and did etc weren’t normal as in other Rebbe’s don’t speak or behave that way. And I guess that’s given me a deeper understanding of how a Nossi hador is different. So I do see it as a positive thing. I mean do you see the quotes I brought from the Rebbe, or the Rebbe’s “unusual” (better word?) behaviour as a negative thing?

    #1637173

    Chabadshlucha
    Participant

    Username:

    “So can you find me a source that this is happening now? You won’t be able to, because since 27 Adar 1 5752, there were no Sichos. So obviously there’s no explicit “this is how you should behave now”, and there were no revelations to Elter Chassidim (who were raui to receive Ruach HaKodesh), we have no reason to assume that that’s happening.”

    Agreed. I don’t think the Rabbeinu HaKadosh theory is true because otherwise wed be hearing of Rebbe sightings every week. As far as a source that the Rebbe is alive, see the famous shmos chov vov sicha. And so the mainstream take the aliveness as I explained above.

    “The only thing we have is a Tzavaah, Aguch’s decisions, and the Rebbe’s behavior after 5710, where the Rebbe said Kaddish for the Frierdiker Rebbe.”

    And where the Rebbe also said that the Frierdiker Rebbe is exactly with us just like before and if you say he was nistalek you are a pere Adam a vilde mentch etc. We also don’t only have aguch. As far as I know aguch gets to decide institutional things like who’s under merkos etc. But as far as who is lubavitch and what’s right and wrong? For that you go to your Rav and Mashpia, most of whom are not anti.

    “The Rebbe instituted the Minhagei Yartzeit for the Frierdiker Rebbe.”

    Yeah so we all (as in mainstream) go to the Rebbe for gimmel tammuz.

    You left a long post. TBC

    #1637204

    Chabadshlucha
    Participant

    Np:
    “CS,

    If NO Gedolim outside of you circle agree with
    1) your beliefs and practices (the ones under discussion)
    2) you interpretation of the last Lubavitcher Rebbe’s teachings and classic sources to justify the above
    Don’t you think that per your own standards it is time to re-evaluate?”

    By gedolim who are you referring to?

    #1637210

    Chabadshlucha
    Participant

    Username:

    “I’ll disagree with out on that.”

    Didn’t you just join the CR? I’ve been here for almost two years now. By understand it doesn’t mean I have too agree to everything anyone says. But for myself, I know who to take seriously if they are alarmed by something I say, who I should be alarmed by if they think I said something “good and normal”, who tends to overreact, whose clueless, who’s unreasonable, who’s just coming from a different mindset etc. So it helps me to have a more productive conversation without running away or shutting it down… Any I think that’s a good thing.

    #1637218

    Chabadshlucha
    Participant

    Coffee addict:
    Me: “Btw I think this is the longest thread we’ve had so far. Yasher koach everyone. I feel like I’m understanding people here more and more.@

    CA “No,

    The joke thread has 2010 posts”

    What I meant was this is the longest Chabad thread because the previous ones were closed due to panicking people or I felt I couldn’t continue the discussion.

    No, the previous threads had closed because of the spewing hatred from both sides as well as some questionable apikorsus. After some of your recent posts this may be heading that way as well.

    #1637198

    Chabadshlucha
    Participant

    Username post 2:
    “There was never a Shvil for the Frierdiker Rebbe.”

    Agreed. I think it’s a shtus, bittul Torah and misses the whole point of gimmel tammuz TBH. But as far as I know, very few people engage in that. Like just some bochurim from one extreme right wing Yeshiva in Israel so that’s not mainstream at all. Like at all.

    “The Rebbe used the title “Ziya” (which is the conventional title in Lubavitch to a Rebbe who passed away) on every single sefer of the Frierdiker Rebbe and in every Maamar where he referenced the Frierdiker Rebbe.”

    True, but many or most chassidim feel uncomfortable using it by the Rebbe, because the Frierdiker Rebbe lived on through the Rebbe while the Rebbe is still our Rebbe and has not passed on from us in any sense (like the way the Rebbe felt in tof shin yud before he accepted the nesius.) but both shittos have what to rely on.

    “…And this Shimush comes from being around Elter Chossidim and Rabbonim, and actually being Mekabel from them.”

    Agreed. And that’s why both “antis” “mainstream” and “far right” are all chassidim because they do the above.

    “And Aguch, the official group of Luabvitch Elter Chossidim decided right after 3 Tammuz that Lubavitch is Anti.”

    They are not the official group of lubavitch eltere chassidim. There was never such a thing. Where did you pull that one from? They are the face of institutional lubavitch.

    #1637287

    Non Political
    Participant

    @ CS

    “By gedolim who are you referring to?”

    “One thing I’ve learned on this forum is that the kinds of things the Rebbe said and did etc weren’t normal as in other Rebbe’s don’t speak or behave that way. And I guess that’s given me a deeper understanding of how a Nossi hador is different.”

    You know very well who the Gedolim where / are. The point is that outside of your stream of Lubavitch no Rabbonim (including Chabbad ones) endorse what you guys do / believe. Also (and more importantly) , none of the Rebbonim in your circle are recognized as authoritative by any Torah Authority outside. By the standards you yourself purport to embrace this should give you pause.

    #1637293

    RSo
    Participant

    CS: “…of how a Nossi hador is different”

    There is no such thing as a Nossi hador, and I’m going to keep on pointing it out whenever you use it. Your rebbe made it up and anointed himself with it.

    Similarly, as I suspected, the term Beis Mashiach exists only in the relation to the statements of the late lubavicher rebbe. I did a full search. In other words, he made up the term and lo and behold it has a gematria of 770! Wow! If that’s not a proof that he’s mashiach (or at least thinks he is) nothing is. It’s even better than Ufaratzta having the gematria of 770… if you don’t count the vov.

    Finally, any useful reply to the impossibility of the sundial story being true? (Another thing I’m going to nag about.)

    #1637315

    Chossid
    Participant

    So now that we came to a maskona that chabad are not koifrim (even mishichistim, just they are nuts in the head) and we are not davaning to the Rebbe, so it’s not avodah zorah cs”v, just like you guys davaning by Rav Shtieman zatzal keiver (right rso?!).
    I think it’s a chiyuv for all you guys to not only apologize for being moitzi Shem rah on yeddin but also to correct your friends and communities.

    #1637324

    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    True, but many or most chassidim feel uncomfortable using it by the Rebbe, because the Frierdiker Rebbe lived on through the Rebbe while the Rebbe is still our Rebbe and has not passed on from us in any sense (like the way the Rebbe felt in tof shin yud before he accepted the nesius.) but both shittos have what to rely on.

    And there you have it

    #1637350

    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    Syag he was referring to the top of the Chabad chassidishe yomim tovim – ie special Chabad dates (There are a good few) of which YTK is definitely top.

    Well that’s a lie. He was listing ALL the yomim tovim and what day of the month they fall on. He said all yomim tovim fall in the beginning or middle of the month except 2. Then he named them, Rosh hashana, sukkos etc. then he said only 2 fall at the end of the month, the Yom Tov of Chanukah, and the Yom Tov of yomim tovim (ch”v) 19 kislev

    #1637368

    samthenylic
    Participant

    Well, to make the anology to an earlier “jewish” offshoot, Dec 25, & Easter
    are ALSO “Chaga of Chagoos” (ch”y), but it seems to sollow in the same footsteps … Leider!

    #1637380

    RSo
    Participant

    CS in reply to I forget whom: ““There was never a Shvil for the Frierdiker Rebbe.”
    Agreed. I think it’s a shtus”

    Oh, I get it. THAT’S a shtus, but all the other garbage isn’t.

    What about the sundial?

    #1637391

    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    No, the previous threads had closed because of the spewing hatred from both sides as well as some questionable apikorsus. After some of your recent posts this may be heading that way as well.

    Mr mod,

    I’m just waiting for the קץ 😄

    #1637381

    RSo
    Participant

    Chossid: “So now that we came to a maskona that chabad are not koifrim”

    Whose haskoma? I see it only as a hava amina.

    #1637559

    username123321
    Participant

    Whose haskoma? I see it only as a hava amina.

    At least Reb Aharon Feldman holds that way explicitly. See his Teshuva on moshiachtalk.

    #1637544

    Chossid
    Participant

    So first what’s the maskona?
    And let’s say you have a have mina, just because of that hava mina, you are going to call Lubavitche koifrim?

    Why don’t you have a hava mina that the davaning at Rav Shtieman zatzal keiver is avodah zarah???

    #1637572

    RSo
    Participant

    Chossid: “Why don’t you have a hava mina that the davaning at Rav Shtieman zatzal keiver is avodah zarah???”

    1. I’m not a Litvak so it has nothing to do with me.

    2. I never had a hava amina that davening at a keiver so that the person should be a meilitz yosher, or so that the zechus of the niftar should help, is apikorsus. There are other things in lubavich, as I have pointed out a number of times, that still leave me with a hava amina.

    #1637581

    username123321
    Participant

    Didn’t you just join the CR? I’ve been here for almost two years now.

    While it’s true that i just joined the Coffeeroom, but I was a lurker on and off from even before the days of the coffeeroom (where every news story would have 423 comments). The good times when gefen, oomis, yummy cupcake, chaplaintzvi, midwesterner, and Syag would kibbitz together, pba would troll, and the not-so-good times, when… well, we won’t go there.

    But, even more important, I do have litvish friends IRL, and I do hang around that community.

    #1637585

    username123321
    Participant

    But, even more important, I do have litvish friends IRL, and I do hang around that community.

    Just to make it clear, I don’t talk to them about Chassidus at all. Period.

    #1637601

    Chossid
    Participant

    1. I’m not a Litvak so it has nothing to do with me.

    Are you Lubavitche? Doesn’t look like it, and fro some reason that has to do with you, to call them koifrim.

    2. I never had a hava amina that davening at a keiver so that the person should be a meilitz yosher, or so that the zechus of the niftar should help, is apikorsus. There are other things in lubavich, as I have pointed out a number of times, that still leave me with a hava amina.

    So it’s seems from here that you you do agree that davaning that the Rebbe should be a mielitz yoisher is not kfira or avodah zarah. And thats is actually what Lubavitche does

    just because of that hava mina, you are going to call Lubavitche koifrim?? (Apikursim)?,
    ??????????????

    #1637716

    Yeshivishrockstar
    Participant

    “So it’s seems from here that you you do agree that davaning that the Rebbe should be a mielitz yoisher is not kfira or avodah zarah. And thats is actually what Lubavitche does”

    Some parts of Lubavich. Unfortunately it’s not a hava mina, as many meshichists take “atzmus areingeshtelt in a guf” literally enough that they daven to him and believe he answers the tefilla.

    A meshichist – NOT elokist – told me that the Rebbe is on a higher level than simply tzaddik gozer and hashem mekayim – rather that the rebbe nasi hador is in in charge of the world and he can do things himself in this world, (his moshol – just like switching a light switch isn’t tzaddik gozer vehashem mekayim, but rather the person switching it does it, so too the Rebbe’s nissim in this world comes from him switching the light switch for that nes – he himself is actually doing it and not hashem, so therefore you can ask the rebbe requests and he’ll answer you.

    I would assume CS agrees with this moshol.

    And in myview (and Hashem’s view), it’s kefira, plain and simple.

    #1637752

    laskern
    Participant

    The Rebbe is the conduit between the Hashem and the Bnei Yisroel.

    #1637762

    samthenylic
    Participant

    If the moshol of the Rebbe operating the light switch WITHOUT Hashem (Ch”v), how does that agree with “EIN OD MILVADO”?

    #1637768

    laskern
    Participant

    According to the Ramban that is what happened by the aigel hazahav where they wanted to replace Moshe Rabbenu then the erav rav ended up worshipping it.

    #1638073

    Non Political
    Participant

    Username123321

    I owe you an apology for the tone of my initial response to your posts.

    #1638146

    RSo
    Participant

    Chosid to me: “1. I’m not a Litvak so it has nothing to do with me.
    Are you Lubavitche? Doesn’t look like it, and fro some reason that has to do with you, to call them koifrim.”

    I don’t recall calling them kofrim. That was someone else. And anyway, if Litvaks kept on trying to convert me to questionable beliefs I would consider them on the same low level as lubavichers. But they don’t, and lubavichers do!

    “just because of that hava mina, you are going to call Lubavitche koifrim?? (Apikursim)?”

    As I wrote, I don’t recall calling them kofrim or apikorsim. I may be wrong so please show me where I wrote that. On the other hand, I will admit publicly that I believe that some of what many lubavichers preach/claim is very close to apikorsus.

    #1638996

    RSo
    Participant

    Is that it? No one’s going to explain to me how the fictitious sundial works?

    #1639096

    Chabadshlucha
    Participant

    “Well that’s a lie. He was listing ALL the yomim tovim and what day of the month they fall on. He said all yomim tovim fall in the beginning or middle of the month except 2. Then he named them, Rosh hashana, sukkos etc. then he said only 2 fall at the end of the month, the Yom Tov of Chanukah, and the Yom Tov of yomim tovim (ch”v) 19 kislev”

    Syag be was talking to a Chabad audience so they would get, without him specifying, that YTK is the uber yt of chassidishe YT (aside from the fact that he was speaking then.) that wasn’t anything controversial lol. No need to create issues when there aren’t any

    #1639092

    Chabadshlucha
    Participant

    Been busy past few days. Will try to catch up a bit now.

    Mod: “After some of your recent posts this may be heading that way as well.”

    If you ever feel that way, please alert me and I’ll see what I can do. As far as I know the only thing that couldve given that impression is that I said to YR that if he listens to the video I posted, Rabbi wolf can explain himself. I didn’t explain it but I can explain my position on that if it is worrisome to you.

    I can assure you all that the context YR presented was definitely not what he meant as you would see in the video I posted – he constantly emphasises doing Torah and mitzvos to the utmost degree of halacha just to make Hashem happy etc.

    The context YR posted I can do as well:

    YR do you agree with the statement “What is hateful to yourself do not do to your friend, this is the whole entire Torah and rest is commentary?”

    Can’t you see how this is the precursor of today’s modern liberalism and all the evil they promote?

    So yeah you can take anything that instead of asking what it means (if not evident from the article itself) you give it another context and make it look bad.

    That said I wouldn’t make such a statement.

    #1639094

    Chabadshlucha
    Participant

    NP:
    “You know very well who the Gedolim where / are.”

    I meant were you talking only outside of lubavitch or also within.

    “The point is that outside of your stream of Lubavitch no Rabbonim (including Chabbad ones) endorse what you guys do / believe. Also (and more importantly) , none of the Rebbonim in your circle are recognized as authoritative by any Torah Authority outside.”

    Both false. Or shall I say the former is incorrect as the majority of respected lubavitcher Rabbonim, if not very many (haven’t done an actual poll) hold like me. That article posted about Rabbi wolf (he’s not a lubavitcher Rav btw so I don’t mean him when I say Rabbonim obviously) was when he was addressing the far right, and I guess I could say he’s far right, but on the other hand, he’s unique that he cares to be normal and comes across that way as well. Giving all the sources etc. That article obviously didn’t do a great job of that because beis Moshiach magazine doesn’t really care to explain things to outsiders so to say. Which is why I said to watch the video (which is what I had posted in any case. Wasnt aware or promoting the article).

    #1639095

    Chabadshlucha
    Participant

    Rso:

    “There is no such thing as a Nossi hador, and I’m going to keep on pointing it out whenever you use it. Your rebbe made it up and anointed himself with it.”

    That post wasn’t to you but sure I can explain. You don’t have to use the term Nossi hador you can use what you want. It’s just simpler for me because it’s two words instead of two sentences. My point was that the Rebbe wasn’t a regular Rebbe. Instead he saw his mission from Hashem to be the Rebbe of every Jew, and took responsibility to reach out and be there for every Jew. Also, he saw that our generations mission is to bring moshiach so he developed a practical plan to make that happen both on a world scale and in a way that would include every Jew. (You like that better than the two word phrase Nossi hador? I simply find it much simpler to use.)

    This is fact. And this is what differentiates the Rebbe from others because we have many great leaders in klal Yisrael who look out for their kehilas needs and are also happy to advise and give brachos to anyone who comes their way. But that is not the same as taking responsibility for every Jew the way the Rebbe did by sending his own best and brightest out for the sake of others. This also explains why the Rebbe made so many unusual statements … Because he had a different role so that comes with a different mode of expression…

    As far as the sundial thing, I’ll just reiterate that I stand by my above post addressing that, and will also add that in the story itself, it notes that the sundial not working only several hours a day was not a common thing (ie most sundials do not work that way) and it had puzzled many great experts for that reason.

    So yeah to take a prototype sundial experiment from third grade, when sundials are not even in use nowadays and to use that to say the entire book is fiction seems silly to me.

    #1639101

    Chabadshlucha
    Participant

    YR:
    “Some parts of Lubavich. Unfortunately it’s not a hava mina, as many meshichists take “atzmus areingeshtelt in a guf” literally enough that they daven to him and believe he answers the tefilla.”

    Nope nobody davens to the Rebbe cvs.

    “A meshichist – NOT elokist – told me that the Rebbe is on a higher level than simply tzaddik gozer and hashem mekayim – rather that the rebbe nasi hador is in in charge of the world and he can do things himself in this world, (his moshol – just like switching a light switch isn’t tzaddik gozer vehashem mekayim, but rather the person switching it does it, so too the Rebbe’s nissim in this world comes from him switching the light switch for that nes – he himself is actually doing it and not hashem, so therefore you can ask the rebbe requests and he’ll answer you.

    I would assume CS agrees with this moshol.

    And in myview (and Hashem’s view), it’s kefira, plain and simple.”

    The way you explained it (ie doing it without Hashem cvs) is obviously wrong and incorrect. However I strongly
    suspect this was your personal interpretation as no lubavitcher would speak or think that way. Now I wasnt present so I can’t tell you where you got it wrong. Maybe he meant something else altogether or maybe it was a bad example. What I could explain to you it what a tzadik/ Rebbe can do.

    A) give a Brocha – not just as in a good wish, but clear the spiritual blockages preventing you from getting the good already alloted to you by Hashem (Brocha milashon hamavrich es hagefen ie to bring down as well as breicha – the pool of good ie your spiritual bank account from Rosh hashana.).

    Now sometimes a simple Bracha will suffice to do this. Sometimes a person’s actions can be blocking the way and then the Rebbe can help clear the way by telling the person which mitzvah they need to be more careful with to bring it down.

    2) a Rebbe can create a new ratzon by Hashem to do something even if He didn’t want to ask to speak. Now actually every Jew can do this when we daven, that’s what the term yehi ratzon implies – even if it’s not in my spiritual bank account, I’m davening to Hashem that He should have a new Will and allot it to me now. However as this takes many more zechusim to create a new Will by Hashem that didn’t exist before, going to a tzadik can help because a Rebbe is the deeper part of our own neshama so it’s not lie going to an outside entity but more like putting your best foot forward.

    3) Another thing tzaddikim can do is be gozer something that Hashem will fulfill. Now obviously they can only be gozer on something they are allowed to be gozer on by Hashem – as they have more spiritual access and vision than us, they would know what that is. For example the Rebbe blessed many people with children who the doctors had said could not physically have – and they did. (If it was a Brocha, yehi ratzon/ gezeira, I don’t know. Probably some of each.) but the Rebbe himself never had children .

    Moshe succeeded in saving the entire Jewish nation several times but he didn’t manage to get into Eretz Yisrael himself because Hashem told him to stop davening. Etc.

    And as a “Household member” above so to speak, in a certain way their hands are tied because they know where they cannot cross the line.

    There is an interesting phenomenon that results from this- the Rebbeim would sometimes tell chassidim that they cannot help them, but they should make a farbrengen or a kiddush and ask their friends to Bentch them with a full heart. And since the clueless chassidim did so, the Brocha would result without any negative repercussions.

    To explain: Hashem loves seeing His children love each other. So when we bless each other with a full heart, He rejoices and many times fulfills it. Now sometimes, a tzadik knows that if he decrees that a couple will have a child, they will but then a family member will get sick or die cvs because they’ve used the good alloted for health on the child.so his hands are tied as he doesn’t want to give such a Bracha or make a decree with such a heavy price. But if fellow Jews bless each other with a full heart, Hashem is more likely to fulfill their request, and if He does, without any adverse affects because that wasn’t what they had in mind…

    #1639104

    Chabadshlucha
    Participant

    Laskern:
    “The Rebbe is the conduit between the Hashem and the Bnei Yisroel.”

    Yes and the reason that is, is because at our core we are really one with Hashem (which explains the phenomenon of non learned Jews feeling they must give up their lives al kiddush Hashem), and the Rebbe lives that way revealed, as in his deepest wishes are not to go on vacation or even to get Olam haba, but he cares about solely what Hashem cares about (like bringing moshiach). And therefore he helps us to tap into that part of our neshama – the essence.

    #1639105

    Chabadshlucha
    Participant

    Samthenylic:
    “If the moshol of the Rebbe operating the light switch WITHOUT Hashem (Ch”v), how does that agree with “EIN OD MILVADO”?”

    Exactly on point. It wouldn’t. And no chossid would even think that way. So my conclusion is as above that this is YRs mistaken interpretation and the real meaning was as in gozer as I explained vs bracha. Or something else. But not that cvs.

    #1639108

    Chabadshlucha
    Participant

    Laskern:
    “According to the Ramban that is what happened by the aigel hazahav where they wanted to replace Moshe Rabbenu then the erav rav ended up worshipping it.”

    Exactly. Just to add, going to Moshe rabbeinu or any tzadik for that matter, to ask him to request things from
    Hashem because he has more zechusim etc. is not a problem because all yidden are one neshama split in different bodies so it’s just putting your best foot forward. And that’s how Hashem set up the system of kedusha, that regular people receive their lifeforce through the higher neshamos of the tzadikim/ talmidei chachamim of the generation, much as the arm and foot receive their lifeforce from the brain (as explained in Tanya perek 2). Tzaddikim also help us tap into that deeper part of our neshama so we end up more connected to Hashem.

    However going to an outside entity is avoda zara which is what the egel was. And we also see that going to avoda zara was a way of trying to circumvent Hashem’s system and get things not meant for us without working on ourselves in any way (as the Or HaChaim explains). So that is the complete opposite of kedusha.

    #1639120

    RSo
    Participant

    “he’s unique that he cares to be normal and comes across that way as well”

    CS, did you really write that about Reuven Wolf?! Have you got a different Journal of Modern Psychology than the rest of the world?

    #1639124

    RSo
    Participant

    CS, you are very frustrating because you write such garbage – I believe that you believe it – that it’s hard for me to know where to start.

    In a nutshell:
    1. I don’t care how you justify your calling your rebbe Nossi Hador. The term does NOT exist except in lubavich circles. It was invented by guess who and it applies to him.

    2. Your claim that your rebbe loved every Jew is disproven by the fact that he fought with so many gedolei hador over so many things. He prohibited Satmar hechsheirim, he called Rav Shach a derogatory name etc. Of course he made up an excuse that was “lesheim Shamayim” for each case, but to say he loved every Jew because that’s what you decided is not acceptable.
    3. Countless other Chassidishe Rebbes cared more about Yidden woldwide than your rebbe did. Your rebbe’s clear agenda was to promote Lubavitch and himself (as Mashiach). That’s why he liked his picture plastered everywhere. That’s why he accepted a tambourine emblazoned with the words “Yechi…” from a looney women who begged him to reveal himself as Mashiach etc and he didn’t tell her that she was talking garbage. That’s why when in 5743 (I think it was Simchas Torah) when they started singing “Yechi…” he made them stop because it would push people away from lubavich, and NOT because it was just the wrong thing to do. That’s why he had to have all politicians and gedolei Yisroel come to him and he wouldn’t go to them. (I think I have already mentioned that in lubavich they hated PM Shamir because he refused to come to 770.) I could go on but I think I’ve proven my point.

    #1639125

    RSo
    Participant

    CS (finally replying to my sundial nagging): “As far as the sundial thing, I’ll just reiterate that I stand by my above post addressing that, and will also add that in the story itself, it notes that the sundial not working only several hours a day was not a common thing (ie most sundials do not work that way) and it had puzzled many great experts for that reason.
    So yeah to take a prototype sundial experiment from third grade, when sundials are not even in use nowadays and to use that to say the entire book is fiction seems silly to me.”

    Thank you for proving the point that has been made numerous times: Lubavichers believe what they want to and never let facts get in the way.

    I would like to let you in on a little secret. By the time I was in third grade I could read fairly well. But that doesn’t mean that my reading hasn’t improved since as probably every day since then I have practiced that skill. Similarly, in third grade I understood the basic workings of a sundial, but my understanding has improved over time.
    Some things, however, don’t change. Just as I still read the words “the cat is wearing a hat” the same way I did in third grade, so too sundial work the same way they did then. And, now please try to get this point, there is no way that trees, mountains, Superman or even the lubavicher rebbe can make a sundial not work between the hours of 2 and 5 in the afternoon. This is true even if they can be seen. NOTHING can affect the working of a sundial if they can’t be seen.

    The reason the sundial “puzzled many experts” is very simple. Those experts were as fictional as the sundial!

    One more point about it. The story clearly tells us that it was not some koach hatumah that affected the sundial. If that was the case I could bedieved have accepted it. But according to the story it was something scientific that the Baal Hatanya knew. That is fiction!

    #1639130

    RSo
    Participant

    CS about the sundial story (I forgot to add this at the end of my last post): “to use that to say the entire book is fiction seems silly to me”

    OK. So let’s agree that the entire book is not fiction. Just the parts that he made up are.

    #1639134

    RSo
    Participant

    While on the topic of lubavich public relations, there is a video of the first night of Chanukah with Secretary Ryan Zinke lighting the Chanukah candle, Not just the shamash, but the candle as well.

    Zinke. although a good friend of Israel, is a lutheran non-Jew. Is there nothing that they will do for PR in lubavich?

    As a good chassidishe (non-lubavich) Israeli friend of mine has said to me on more than one occasion when bemoaning what has become of lubavich, “This is what happens when a chassidus based in America adopts Ameican values.”

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