February 25, 2009 3:01 am at 3:01 am #674579
wine only! yayin. what do you have against wine?February 25, 2009 3:08 am at 3:08 am #674580
yuck i don’t like it!!!!! although there is one i do like!!!!!!!!!February 25, 2009 4:52 am at 4:52 am #674581
asdf, which wine do you like? Wine is awesome!!!
~a~February 25, 2009 5:12 am at 5:12 am #674582
dry red wine is the way to drink without getting sick or throwing up. anything else has sugar and thats what gets you sick and makes you puke.February 25, 2009 5:13 am at 5:13 am #674583
anonymisss: it costs $250 a bottle, i always forget the name, i gatta ask daddy!!!February 25, 2009 5:14 am at 5:14 am #674584
asdfghjkl: which one??$February 25, 2009 5:21 am at 5:21 am #674585
Wine is awesome!!!
Finally someone who agrees with me. My friends think I’m nuts!February 25, 2009 5:21 am at 5:21 am #674586
btw make sure that you have all the hard liquer out of your system b4 yo drink wine 4 years ago purim was on fri so i drank schnapps on thurs night and it was still in my system the next day and since it was a fri we started the seuda early and i got really really sick i threw up without exaggeration like 25 times so be carefullFebruary 25, 2009 5:56 am at 5:56 am #674587
” but for someone to say you shouldnt get drunk because you may kill someone is ridiculus. “
Flatbush – with all due respect, your words make me feel that you must be VERY young! I cannot imagine that a mature and otherwise intelligent person would make such an obviously ill-thought-out statement as you did.
You should NOT get stinking drunk (as so many young men choose to do on Purim) if you are going to drive, because you absolutely MAY kill someone, yourself included. You should not get stinking drunk and go out for a walk on Purim night, because another driver may see you come out in front of his car, and if you are too plastered to recognize the danger, and he swerves to avoid you, he may possibly get hurt or killed. You should not get stinking drunk, because there is such a thing as alcohol POISONING, and people who do not normally drink alcohol (and even some who do) have no idea how their bodies will handle unusually large amoutns of liquor. Have you any idea, Flatbush, how many young men (for some reason not too many young women) end up in the ER every Purim? Check with your local Hatzolah and get back to me on that. Above all, you should not get stinking drunk, because THAT IS NOT THE MITZVAH, in spite of what some people who post here seem to think. A drunk is a drunk, and little kids, non-Jews, and I do not need to see any Yid acting like a jerk, being verbally abusive (as I have witnessed more than once in my neighborhood), and doing outrageous and disgusting chilulei Hashem, because they are under the influence and calling that a mitzvah.February 25, 2009 6:02 am at 6:02 am #674588
baal kishron: that was real smart.$ 🙂February 25, 2009 6:02 am at 6:02 am #674589
one of my brothers got so drunk last purim!!! he was throwing up in the backyard(cause my mom didn’t let him stay inside-he was off the wall nuts drunk!!) we had to hose him down in the backyard!!!February 25, 2009 6:07 am at 6:07 am #674590
beacon: three cheers!!!!!
~a~February 25, 2009 6:11 am at 6:11 am #674591
asdfghjkl: stop telling them what i did last year.$February 25, 2009 6:19 am at 6:19 am #674592
qwertyuiop: ha ha!!! sorry abt that!!!February 25, 2009 6:19 am at 6:19 am #674593
You are supposed to get drunk to the point of not knowing the difference between cursed is haman and blessed is mordechai (according to many poskim, including my own) Therefore, it takes quite a bit of drunkedness to reach this halachic state.
Please don’t interfere with my religious obligations. Even U.S. law allows MINORS to drink alchol when it is for religious obligations.February 25, 2009 7:26 am at 7:26 am #674594
asdfghjkl: it’s ok, but it’s a little embarrassing.$February 25, 2009 8:08 am at 8:08 am #674595
I’m sure there are some here who will remember more details, but at least one bachur died in a car accident that involved drinking on Purim in Baltimore several years ago. I think he was with a group collecting tzedaka on Purim night (well before the seuda). I don’t have time to look for a link now. If anyone remembers and has more details, this probably would be a good forum to post them!February 25, 2009 3:45 pm at 3:45 pm #674596
there is a national advertisement that comes out right before Purim (can’t remember which organization puts it out) with a picture of someone being put into an ambulance on a stretcher and the line reads in bold “THIS PURIM –DON’T GET CARRIED AWAY”.
nichnas yayin yotzo sod–before drinking make sure that you’re comfortable with the sod that will come out.
Also, does anyone know the mikor for those who sleep to achieve ad d’lo yoda-(and drink a little but not to the point of drunkeness)?February 25, 2009 4:15 pm at 4:15 pm #674597
asdf i think that is hilarious did you actually hose him down lolFebruary 25, 2009 4:29 pm at 4:29 pm #674598
ujm – there’s quite a difference between the allowance the law makes for a sip of wine at communion and the out-and-out imbibing done in the name of Purim.February 25, 2009 4:33 pm at 4:33 pm #674599
ulm said “Please don’t interfere with my religious obligations. Even U.S. law allows MINORS to drink alchol when it is for religious obligations “. Try convincing a judge that getting a minor drunk is a religious obligation.
Can someone explain what is the difference between a drunk goy and a drunk Jew? My friend’s son, when he was at Chaim Berlin and a teenager, got so drunk he couldn’t stop throwing up and was sick. After that experience, my friends would no longer let him shpazir on Purim. How is that different from a goy?February 25, 2009 4:39 pm at 4:39 pm #674600
lesschumras – What’s wrong with throwing up from drinking? That’s what usally happens to people who drink ad dlo yoda.
Acually, that happens to me every single year. I consider it part of my simchas purim to be sick every shushan purim.February 25, 2009 4:39 pm at 4:39 pm #674601
just so you know both jews and goyim throw up when they drink too much its how they behave while intoxicated that is supposed to show the differenceFebruary 25, 2009 4:46 pm at 4:46 pm #674602
Joseph, even someone whose shita is to get completely drunk from a real mesorah (as opposed to picking the shita he’s most comfortable with) has to admit that there is no shita that permits skipping krias shma or bentching. Someone who does this is not a tzaddik.February 25, 2009 5:24 pm at 5:24 pm #674603
of course you’re invited to my tish. Bring along a few of those $250 bottles of wine!February 25, 2009 5:47 pm at 5:47 pm #674604
Kiruvwife >>Also, does anyone know the mikor for those who sleep to achieve ad d’lo yoda-(and drink a little but not to the point of drunkeness)? <<
It is a Rama in the Shulchan Aruch. And the Mishna Berura writes on it “And such is what one should do”February 25, 2009 5:55 pm at 5:55 pm #674605
R’ Jay Matt19 thank youFebruary 25, 2009 6:05 pm at 6:05 pm #674606
oomis: when i say drunk, i dont mean stinking drunk as you so kindly called it. i mean drunk. not plastered off your head, not wasted completely, not smashed out of your brains,and i cant think of any other synonyms right now. there is a difference between being drunk and being stinking drunk. you had many valid reasons as to not get stinking drunk but what comes out is that you think its ok to get ‘normal’ drunk as long as you give your car keys to someone else. please correct me if im wrongFebruary 25, 2009 7:21 pm at 7:21 pm #674607
ames, bartenura’s moscato d’asti i not wine, it’s (classy?) SODA. (and dr pepper is still better!)
asdfghjkl, you only like that bottle because of the price. i’ll bet i could put a $300 price tag on kedem cream melaga and you’ll say you like it too.February 25, 2009 7:40 pm at 7:40 pm #674608
I’m missing something if throwing up is part of the simcha, not a by-product. It was the ancient Romans who had vomitoria.February 25, 2009 7:43 pm at 7:43 pm #674609
A lot of people have told me that for many years they have tried to get so drunk that they don’t know the difference between arur haman and baruch Mordechai, but that they have never been able to get that confused no matter how drunk they get.
Assuming that one takes the position that the mitzva is in fact to become so utterly stupefied, how is this not a davar she’ain rov hatzibur yachol la’amod bo?February 25, 2009 7:51 pm at 7:51 pm #674610
anon for thisParticipant
TJ, your observations would point towards following the Rama quoted by JayMatt19 above, since most people can’t figure it out in while sleeping.February 25, 2009 7:52 pm at 7:52 pm #674611
As someone who has never been drunk in his life, I’ve got to say that I’ve never seen the appeal. Personally, once I know I’m done driving for the day, I have a cup or two of low alcohol wine.
Unfortunately, I don’t have time during the day on Purim to sleep – but there’s no way I’m going to get drunk.
The WolfFebruary 25, 2009 8:30 pm at 8:30 pm #674612
The other prblem with vomiting is it raises shailos like seuda al menas lehachazir, shalach manos al menas lehachazir, etc.February 25, 2009 8:44 pm at 8:44 pm #674613
jothar i think that should be in the purim torah threadFebruary 25, 2009 8:59 pm at 8:59 pm #674614
Wolf, its not being drunk thats appealing, its the process of getting drunk.February 25, 2009 9:07 pm at 9:07 pm #674615
Wolf, its not being drunk thats appealing, its the process of getting drunk.
Oh, well. I guess I’ll have to take your word for it. I have no plans or intentions of getting drunk at this point in my life.
Put this way — I drink more alcohol on the night of Pesach (with four cups of low alcohol wine) than at any other point in the year.
The WolfFebruary 25, 2009 9:20 pm at 9:20 pm #674616
To me it’s not the maaseh, it’s the chalos.February 25, 2009 9:26 pm at 9:26 pm #674617
Wolf, I understand. I turned 21 and no longer enjoyed the process. I still enjoy a good glass of wine, but I don’t enjoy drinking like I used to.February 25, 2009 10:09 pm at 10:09 pm #674618
“oomis: when i say drunk, i dont mean stinking drunk as you so kindly called it. i mean drunk. not plastered off your head, not wasted completely, not smashed out of your brains,and i cant think of any other synonyms right now. there is a difference between being drunk and being stinking drunk. you had many valid reasons as to not get stinking drunk but what comes out is that you think its ok to get ‘normal’ drunk as long as you give your car keys to someone else. please correct me if im wrong “
When it comes to yeshivah (and other) boys, there is no difference whatsoever between drunk and my expression. They get plastered. I live next door to a choshuveh yeshivah, and I have seen more than I would ever want to. There is absolutely no mitzvah in what I have observed for the last 22 years here. I do not really ever think it is ok for underage boys to believe they should drink to excess, car keys or no car keys. You have to be 21 to drink like that, and a 21 year old who gets irresponsibly drunk (and please don’t try to tell me they don’t), is also showing a lack of good judgment. But wait – that is precisely what getting drunk does to you. As I said before, when our chazal suggested that this is a great mitzvah, no one had cars, no one left the shtetl or neighborhood he lived in on Purim, and no one endangered anyone else. We do not live in those societies anymore. Nowadays, just walking down the street while intoxicated, can result in an accident, i.e., a fall on concrete. The boys think they are very cool when they are drinking, and that is their motivation, not the fulfillment of a mitzvah.February 25, 2009 10:14 pm at 10:14 pm #674619
“just so you know both jews and goyim throw up when they drink too much its how they behave while intoxicated that is supposed to show the difference”
yes, we would really like to believe that, wouldn’t we? But I have seen Jews drunk, and they were as abusive, moronic, loudmouthed, inappropriate, and nauseating, as any non-Jew could be. Please, let’s put aside rhetoric for the moment and cash a reality check. Drunk is drunk. Any Jew can be a quiet drunk or an obnoxious drunk. You don’t know how the behavior will manifest itself until you see that person when (s)he is drunk.February 25, 2009 10:59 pm at 10:59 pm #674620
Jothar wrote: “To me it’s not the maaseh, it’s the chalos.”
According to R’ Yisrael Salanter’s interpretation of the Rambam, the mitzvah on Purim is punkt farkert of what you wrote.
oomis1105 wrote: “You don’t know how the behavior will manifest itself until you see that person when (s)he is drunk.”
Thus the ma’amar of R. Ilai (Eruvin, 65b) – adam nikar b’koso.February 25, 2009 11:06 pm at 11:06 pm #674621
oomis: with all due respect, you are not to decide whether a mitzva no longer applies. the mitzva of “chayav inish libisumei etc” definitely is still a mitzva even though you dont like it or feel the yeshiva guys next to you are not performing it correctly.
“The boys think they are very cool when they are drinking, and that is their motivation, not the fulfillment of a mitzvah.” please dont assume that. be dan lekav zchus as we are required to be. the ages 16 to 21 really isnt a big difference when it comes to drinking, except experience. the age 21 doesnt make sense anyway, when everything else is 18.February 25, 2009 11:17 pm at 11:17 pm #674622
moish, kedem cream malaga with a $1,000 label will nevertheless remain fruit punch. Sorry!
~a~February 25, 2009 11:17 pm at 11:17 pm #674623
Flatbush, it’s not for Oomis to decide. It is for the mishna brura to decide, and he agrees with Oomis about drunks who are mechalel sheim shamayim, and says they are doing an aveirah by drinking.February 25, 2009 11:22 pm at 11:22 pm #674624
Flatbush, there is a big difference between 16 and 21. You really don’t see that?
Having recently been a teenager(I’m 26), I remember how much many of the guys in my neighborhood loved Purim – it was one of the few days they could get drunk with “their parents permission.” Don’t fool yourself into thinking that these boys are necessarily doing it l’shaim mitzvah.
This is a better question to broach with a Rabbi, but with the dangers associated with drinking (at any age), if you arent sure your child is doing it l’shaim mitzvah, its probably better to keep them sober.
If you dont mind them drinking, make sure they do it AT HOME where they are fully supervised and give them dry red wine. Most teenagers do not enjoy that. See if its l’shaim mitzvah or l’shaim alcohol…February 25, 2009 11:25 pm at 11:25 pm #674625
jothar: i know that. oomis for some reason thinks every yeshiva guy gets plastered and really drunk and not for the mitzva but to be cool.February 25, 2009 11:33 pm at 11:33 pm #674626
to me and you. not to people who only look at the price and nothing else.February 25, 2009 11:47 pm at 11:47 pm #674627
While there are plenty of guys who try to get drunk for the mitzvah, there are also a lot of yeshiva bum ois vorfs who are just taking advantage of another opportunity to get drunk.
Let’s put it this way: Most people who get stone drunk on Simchas Torah or Purim night, and most people who get drunk on liquor on Purim, are probably not drinking on Purim b’ikkar for the mitzvah. One should be dan l’kaf zechus on an individual basis, but it is pretty obvious that there are plenty of idiots out there.February 25, 2009 11:53 pm at 11:53 pm #674628
sjs: many people, not just bochurim drink for other reasons besides the mitzva. if they are not mechalel sheim shamayim then whats the big deal.
- The topic ‘To Drink or Not to Drink?’ is closed to new replies.