October 16, 2009 4:00 pm at 4:00 pm #662507
No no no! He wont let us wear makeup!October 16, 2009 4:08 pm at 4:08 pm #662508
We anyways need to make it a womens only group.October 16, 2009 4:19 pm at 4:19 pm #662509
Ames, I don’t mind taking the rap and being banned. But why punish Joseph?
And Negativity? And Complaints? I am really hurt.
I have neither complaints nor negativity about women’s tznius. I think they are making a pretty good effort under the circumstances. America is not the shtetle and the nisyonos are far greater here and now than ever before. So again, I think women are to be complimented, not criticized for the way they cover up. Halavai Veiter!October 16, 2009 4:36 pm at 4:36 pm #662510
Ames: Thank you for the suggestion, but I am not sure what the purpose of such a thread would be.
Would women post when they feel they have done something positive? But something positive for me may sound silly to you. For example, I heard recently about someone who decided to take on something small with her tznius. She decided to put her sheitel on only in the bathroom every time. Maybe someone would feel this is dumb, pass such a comment, and then no one would be willing to post that type of thing again.October 16, 2009 4:43 pm at 4:43 pm #662511
NY Mom – good example. You are right, there is no point of a support group if the audience is unsympathetic.
The group would only work if the members were aware of where each one is holding in terms of tsnius observance. So if Member A never wore a sheitel and then posted what you describe, the other members could say hurrah, and many more. But if Member B who always wears a sheitel posted it, the other members would be unimpressed.
Such a group might (understatement of the year?) not work in the CR.October 16, 2009 4:55 pm at 4:55 pm #662512
Online Tznius support group?
I can picture it now……
Hi, I’m Chavi….
Recently, I must confess, I started wearing shells under my top. At first, it was ok because the spaghetti straps were pas yisroel, kemach yashan exclusively, but then, I started slipping, I used Ronzoni, even with the OU, it started bothering me…
Go on Chavi, let it all out.
Well, the other day, I really slipped, I wore a shell that wasn’t black. I felt horrible, like I was betraying all four Imahos Hakedoshos at the same time. I tried to justify to myself that “it was only chocolate macaroon dark brown”, but I knew it was only my yetzer hara.
Oooohhhh Chaaavi, we really feel for you. We’re here for you every step of the way. We will come to your house tonight and empty out those closets so the temptation to wear anything other than black canvas tents never tempts you again.
Oh, thank you ladies. Your the best. Who is next?
Hi, I’m Faigy.
Just the other day, I wore shoes that had, gasp, a heel that measured approximately 1/4 of an inch. How couldI wear such untzniusdik spikes!?!?….October 16, 2009 5:01 pm at 5:01 pm #662513
To jphone’s post, I reply to the rest of you: QED.October 16, 2009 5:01 pm at 5:01 pm #662514
Ames: I have no objection to such a thread. I am just questioning how useful it would be. How do we keep out negative comments? We are not the mods. And all the mods would have to agree to ban negative comments, otherwise if even one gets through, people won’t want to post.October 16, 2009 5:03 pm at 5:03 pm #662515
squeak: care to explain?October 16, 2009 5:03 pm at 5:03 pm #662516
I’m a mod. I think it’s a good idea. Go for it.October 16, 2009 5:05 pm at 5:05 pm #662517
mepal – I would, but CR rules prevent me from teaching Latin here.October 16, 2009 5:05 pm at 5:05 pm #662518
Mods: Thank you for you support of the support group! Ames, will you do the honors?October 16, 2009 5:06 pm at 5:06 pm #662519
Yesss!!October 16, 2009 5:13 pm at 5:13 pm #662520
Thanks again, 80! You’re really there for me today!
An acronym for the latin phrase quod erat demonstrandum, loosely translated as “which was to be demonstrated”.
What I meant by it was that jphone’s comment proved my point about the CR not being the best place to find a sympathetic audience. But if the mods are the demi-gods they pretend to be, then I believe such a thread could succeed. It’s all up to them (and y’all)!October 16, 2009 5:13 pm at 5:13 pm #662521
Thanks Jphone! I needed that 😉October 16, 2009 5:14 pm at 5:14 pm #662522
OK, OK! Ya’ twisted my arm.October 16, 2009 5:14 pm at 5:14 pm #662523
Squeak Hakadosh. I understand. I’m not offended, and quite frankly, dont really care.EDITEDOctober 16, 2009 5:28 pm at 5:28 pm #662524
ames – I’m going to submit your claim to Dr. Pepper for analysis. You have started 63 threads in the nearly 11 months since you signed up, which is a little more than 5.7 threads per month. I am sure that a number of users average 1 thread PER DAY on the first day they sign up.October 16, 2009 6:32 pm at 6:32 pm #662525
jphone: :)That was pretty funny! I know you only meant it in a cute way!October 18, 2009 1:28 am at 1:28 am #662526
So I’ve been thinking about this a lot over shabbos, and I think I have some thoughts.
First, I think in the last 10-15 years, fashion has produced more skirts. When I was 13, long skirts first came in style. Then, mid calf length skirts were in style…then near the knee. So fashionable skirts are much more readily available…and when women go try them on, its a beautiful skirt that just makes it…or is a hair to short but “with black tights you won’t be able to tell” or other things like that. I think ironically that because of the more modest clothing available to the outside world, Jewish women are less tzanua.
About the rebelling against your old teachers – when I was 13, my teacher did not understand the difference between halacha and chumra, nor did she understand the class she was preaching too. Most of the girls wore generally tzanua clothing. She would preach to us about long skirts being 100% assur and other things which the entire class did not hold by. Her entire view on Judaism was singular to exactly what her husband said and if anyone brought up anything different (even from a valid posek), she dismissed it at hand. Once my friend explained she had learned something in the gemara with her father which was different than the teacher was explaining and the teacher said something to the effect of “your father is wrong.” (her father happens to be a talmid chacham…but anyway) It took me four years of good teachers in high school to really understand how wrong she was and undo the damage she had done to me. I think if people have bad experiences with their teachers and never resolve the issues, they will be rebelling against them for the rest of their lives.
Personally, tznius is the last thing I work on. But that’s because anytime I start with that, I find myself slipping in other ways. I prefer to work from inside to the outside; others work better from outside to within.October 18, 2009 1:42 am at 1:42 am #662527
People promoting the mitzvah have had to put up with the negativity of those opposed for a long time. I envy their schaar for dealing with those people.October 18, 2009 2:21 am at 2:21 am #662528
anon for thisParticipant
NY Mom, I didn’t mean to imply that your posts were particularly negative–in fact they were closer to neutral than many I’ve seen. But since so much of the discourse regarding tznius tends to be negative & critical that many women feel overwhelmed & jaded. Therefore positive discussion is particularly important.October 18, 2009 2:46 am at 2:46 am #662529
SJSinNYC & anon for this: If you read back on the thread for the posts on Friday starting here, you will see that Ames suggested a tznius support group and after some debate, the consensus was that it was a good idea. We’re going to try to keep it positive with the help of the mods, so I hope that will be helpful to you and to everyone.
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