October 31, 2016 6:20 am at 6:20 am #618595
Is it proper to use offensive words to describe other religious or ethnic groups? Should Jews be more sensitive about this considering our history?October 31, 2016 9:23 am at 9:23 am #1188368
A perjorative is rude and vulgar. Bnei Torah do not use such language. As they are directed against those created in the image of Ha-Shem, I fail to see why being “Jewish” has anything to do with it.October 31, 2016 11:46 am at 11:46 am #1188369
and yes schvartze is a pejorative.October 31, 2016 12:40 pm at 12:40 pm #1188370
☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
It simply means “black”.October 31, 2016 12:53 pm at 12:53 pm #1188371
DY please, its meant in a derogatory way and its use is racist and wrong.October 31, 2016 1:22 pm at 1:22 pm #1188372
Whatever the original meaning might have been , the meaning has changed and while originally it was not an offensive term, It now has become oneOctober 31, 2016 1:24 pm at 1:24 pm #1188373
“Negro” also simply means “black.” However, I wouldn’t suggest you go call someone that term…October 31, 2016 1:42 pm at 1:42 pm #1188374
“and yes schvartze is a pejorative.”
I am an exclusively Yiddish speaker. As may be no suprpirse to you I also a support “BLack lives matter” Until now I have been chanting “shvartze leben zenen vichtig”
is this pejorative?October 31, 2016 2:01 pm at 2:01 pm #1188375
My first reaction when I saw the title of this thread was, how many people reading it know what the word pejorative means without looking it up.
Having said that, I don’t believe it is ever appropriate to use offensive words and I taught my children to have respect for everyone, regardless of what they hear. I don’t like them at all, even Goy, preferring non-Jew. One should also strive for lashon nekiah.October 31, 2016 3:37 pm at 3:37 pm #1188376
The Goq is right. “Schvartzer” (or “shvartzer”) has, regrettably, taken on a pejoritive meaning among Jews who speak primarily English. If you are an exclusively Yiddish speaker, like ubiquitin, the word can be used without its pejoritive sense. And, by the way, ubiquitin, you may speak in Yiddish, but you write – perhaps non-exclusively, in English.October 31, 2016 4:41 pm at 4:41 pm #1188377
Flatbusher, I heard about someone who found “Non-Jew” offensive because she did not want to be described according to what she is not. How about “Noahide”? That will really send people to their dictionaries.October 31, 2016 5:11 pm at 5:11 pm #1188378
I think “Noachide” is usually only used for people who keep the 7 Mitzvos b’nei Noach.
Would she have preferred “goy”? I think I remember hearing that Arafat found that term offensive.October 31, 2016 5:13 pm at 5:13 pm #1188379
I don’t even know how to pronounce “Noahide”. Is the H silent? It would make sense that it is silent, since it is in the name Noah, but that makes it more difficult to pronounce.
Maybe “Ben-Noach” would be betterOctober 31, 2016 7:43 pm at 7:43 pm #1188380
Avi–your comment is what is wrong in America today (among other things). Just because one person may have been offended by a the term non-Jew doesn’t mean there is anything wrong with the term. Is there any sane person who thinks being called a non-Jew is offensive, in a world of rising anti-Semitism?October 31, 2016 8:04 pm at 8:04 pm #1188381
In English, “Schwartze” is definitely a perjorative. In English, the language of assimilated Jews, “black” is bad. Indeed, the reason words such as “Negro” (which is a latin root) or “colored” were used to refer to African Americans was that “black” was perjorative since it meant “evil.”
In Yiddish, or “yeshivish” it isn’t clear. Yiddish has far fewer words than English, and there are no ways to say “Black” other than “Schvartz”. Any of the Americans eupemisms sound alien and foreign sounding (and some secular Yiddish texts tried to introduce the word “Negro” into Yiddish, without success). Persumably if you are refering to whites as “Veissers” there shouldn’t be problem using “black” in that context.October 31, 2016 9:22 pm at 9:22 pm #1188382
I don’t think the word “negro” is offensive in Spanish.October 31, 2016 10:49 pm at 10:49 pm #1188383
“Telling me *you* cannot do something because of your religious beliefs is okay. Telling me that *I* cannot do something because of your religious beliefs is not okay.” -quote
Avi K: IMHO calling someone a *Noachide* still imposes the Torah-view onto someone of a different religion.
It can alienate someone else, especially when a lot of individuals have pride in their diverse beliefs. Who likes to be told that they are wrong or of another type?
At first I felt that non-Jew was offensive, but I think it’s better than “goy.”
After I read some research articles about non-X’ians and non-Muslims and didn’t take offense to being referred to a non-something because it was really a way of saying that I was not part of the group (which technically is accurate, and it doesn’t make me less human), I now prefer to say non-Jew.October 31, 2016 10:54 pm at 10:54 pm #1188384
Since the OP seems to have raised the question only regarding ethnic and religious groups, I take the liberty of using pejoratives for many of the posters on this thread: You guys are idiots.
“Shvartze” is no more insulting than “black”; “Goy” than “Jew.” Granted, people could use certain tones of voice and contexts to turn a neutral word into an insult (including such words such as “tall” “black” and “doctors”), but no blame lies on people who use them.
Here are some real-life quotes from the above idiots.
Would she have preferred “goy”? I think I remember hearing that Arafat found that term offensive.
Oh, Arafat is am etiquette master now? I assume he also found the term “Jew” offensive.
. I don’t like them at all, even Goy, preferring non-Jew. One should also strive for lashon nekiah.
Just because one person may have been offended by a the term non-Jew doesn’t mean there is anything wrong with the term. Is there any sane person who thinks being called a non-Jew is offensive, in a world of rising anti-Semitism?
“Goy” was made into an insult by Jews who hate religious Jews (Sorry, I don’t use the senseless term “Self-hating Jew”). The word has been in use for centuries and won’t fall into disuse because “one person [or persons] may have been offended [or pretend to be offended] by a the term”.October 31, 2016 11:18 pm at 11:18 pm #1188385
I never heard before that Goyim get offended by being called non-Jew. I would guess that it’s unusual and not something to be concerned about. I could be wrong but I don’t think they get insulted by Goy either as long as it’s not used in a bad way. The term “Shabbos Goy” is a very used term, and I have never heard of a goy who minded being called a “Shabbos Goy”.
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