December 26, 2008 6:15 am at 6:15 am #628793
Ladies (and gentleman) I see nothing wrong with a person spending under $10 a week to be well groomed. Personally, I don’t have weekly manis, but I see nothing wrong with it. I also like the nail place on Ave. M between E. 17th and E. 18 Streets. As for the price of getting your hair done, asdfighjid, when a beautition spends a good half hour or more on a customer, plus the price of products you have to figure that it will cost more than a man’s hair cut.
Back to shadchans…the only reason my daughter went out with her husband is because the shadchan was a relative and I had to be polite and couldn’t tell her where to get off. Once they sarted dating, it was another story. On the other hand though, some people are just imposible to deal with. I have an aquaintance who berates the shadchan if she feels the shadchan doesn’t have enough information or if the she feels the shiduch doesn’t “pas”. Needless to say, not even her close friends want to red a shiduch for her daughters. Then there are stories like the man who told my sister that he will date anyone. She found a nice girl and when she spoke to the “boy” she started asking many silly questions. Is it really relevent what High school a mid 30s woman went out with? Every one from single, parent and shadchan have to work on trying to solve the “shiduch crisis”.December 26, 2008 1:19 pm at 1:19 pm #628794
asdf – I think I paid about $60 to have my hair done for MY wedding 🙂
I am so glad I never had to be set up on a date. I never would have done the whole manicure/hair/makeup thing. I’m glad my husband knew what I looked like on a normal day before we even started dating!
Its not just shadchanim who are misguided – its friends and relatives too. For example, two of my family members came over yesterday and a single friend of mine came over to drop something off. He is older (40), MO and a great catch. The two family members asked me afterwards about setting him up with this lovely women in her mid 30s – the problem – she is somewhat yeshivish and at one point wanted a kollel husband!!!!! Now, she doesnt really want that anymore (or maybe has just given up on a man who is 35+, single and still learning) but she is not right at all for a MO guy. Sheesh!! Just because they are both single does NOT mean they should date.
I dont believe in lying or pressuring people either. I set up my cousin with a fantastic guy who was short (5’5). She is 5’2″. She went out with him, but turned him down after the first date because he was short and she just wasnt 100% sure. He really liked her and wanted to go out with her again. I didnt pressure her at all when she told me no, because I believe its her decision to make, not mine.
My friend was set up with someone and the shadchan totally lied to the guy about her. He told her she was in graduate school (still in undergrad), lied about her age etc…it worked out in the end (they are happily married with 2 kids), but if that were me I would be livid. It should be MY decision to set parameters on who I date, NOT YOURS. I know this story ended happy but it really bothers me that people think lying is ok. Its not.December 26, 2008 3:57 pm at 3:57 pm #628795
SJS, you remind me of my friend who’s really short, like barely five feet. People would call all the time to set her up with a “great catch.” When her mother asked what makes you think it’s for my daughter? Well, don’t fall off your chair, but ppl would have no problem saying bec he’s short!!! Guess what? Her husband is six feet tall!!December 26, 2008 5:42 pm at 5:42 pm #628796
The height issue is a thron in my side. My daughter is 5’2″, has unbelievable middos, is slim, pretty, intelligent (was graduated with top honors). She has been set up with several very short guys (“because YOU are very short, so the boy’s height shouldn’t bother you, right?”) And I am here to say that is DOES bother her. She never turned her previous shidduchim down, but after going out with five or six really nice people, but who were around 5’5″ or 5’6″ she sees that she is physically uncomfortable going out with men shorter than 5’8″ (which is also not so tall, but is more comfortable for her, especially when she wears high heels). She went out with two of them more than twice to really give them a chance, but at the end of the day she came to see it really is not shayach to her. She is simply not attracted to people who are at about eye level with her. So when a shadchan says she is too picky and will never get married because she has a particular inyan that bothers her, that grinds my gears.December 29, 2008 2:06 pm at 2:06 pm #628797
I was very excited when it came to putting on a sheitel. You see i was one of those that blew my own hair for dates! I had a top of the line blow dryer and a ceramic iron. I stood in fromt of the mirror for 1/2 hr. CAN U IMAGINE!!!
I did get my hair done for weddings and special occasions. But for a date? put it this way, I didnt marry the first guy I met… I got it done for my L’chaim. No, I don’t get my nails done, for my wedding I got a manicure just to have nicely cut nails, but with no polish!
AND I AM NOT FROM THE 1920s…so there saved a lot, and still think I looked good!December 29, 2008 6:46 pm at 6:46 pm #628798
Oomis – the fact that they say she is too picky because of the height thing is crazy. I appreciated that my cousin went out with him because I set her up. It wasnt for her – I respect that. I’m 5’3″ and could never date a short guy either. FYI – the guy got married to a girl who is really short (like 4’10 or so).
Attraction is an important part of marriage. No, you shouldnt build a marriage on attraction alone, but it is very important in a marriage.
I am very lucky – I met my husband on my own and didnt have to get set up. It was fantastic.December 30, 2008 1:42 am at 1:42 am #628799
Ok, a boy on the forum, kollel, etc.
To the Shadchan:
You are looking to set ppl. up with their chesronos as they are. Don’t expect to change them to be successful.
Singles these days are very often going through a world of hurt, and the easiest way to not feel their pain is to blame it on them. Fact is, we just haven’t found the right one yet. You feel it a little when you see what we go through, and instead of empathizing, you try to cast blame. But it will not get anyone anywhere.
All to often in shidduchim people inflate the smallest of things, and completely misread people. Why join that group of people?
To the singles:
Yes, attraction is a major element. But we tend to attach it to the physical element a little too much. I’ve been dating for a while so I can’t even like the way a girl looks until 3-6 dates, until she’s earned a small measure of trust. I can’t open up fully until we can iron out disagreements respectfully.
And yes, of course I find it crazy that in a world with so much tzorus, all you can think of is how much it costs to do nails. But it’s ok, you’re not on my list. There’s someone out there for you, just keep on davening.December 30, 2008 2:17 am at 2:17 am #628800
goofy – most guys are the other way around. the first two dates all they notice is your looks. and that’s when i get nauseous and say no. i mean, i make sure to look good. but sometimes i wanna dress down and cut out some makeup. maybe the guy will see past my looks.December 30, 2008 3:55 am at 3:55 am #628801
Brooklyn19 – It is a human and natural need for boys to notice looks and girls to be noticed. It’s just that there are so many other factors, you are cheating yourself by putting so much of an emphasis on the physical.
Perhaps by putting so much of an emphasis on it yourself, you raise the demand…
Who knows?December 30, 2008 5:16 am at 5:16 am #628802
I really don’t. I always dress nicely and make sure to look good. and i don’t think i’m GORGEOUS, just normal pretty. (lol ok maybe a drop prettier than average:}) but i get so turned off when i come home from a boring date and get a report back that the guy “had a great time.” that means one of two things: either he’s dull, or he wasn’t concentrating on the conversation.
and mind you, not every guy looks like Cary Grant. It works backwards too. (maybe not as bad)December 30, 2008 12:48 pm at 12:48 pm #628803
Goofy, it’s usually the boy and his mother makeing a deal about looks. I’ve had people asking me if I know any girls but she has to be skinny. My daughter has been turned down soley on the fact that she is not a size 2. One mother told me that everything is so perfect, can’t my daughter just lose some weight to be down to her son’s requirement? Some not-nice person insinuated to my sone (as part of “information) that my beautiful (inside and out) daughter-in-law was heavy because she “might be a size 10”.
So who is makeing the physical fuss?December 30, 2008 7:25 pm at 7:25 pm #628804
Just Me, I am SO with you on this one. I am sick and tired of this emphasis on size numbers. When I was a teenager, a girl being a size 10 was thought to be gorgeous! Now they are HEAVY??????? Please. What is next? Olive Oyl as poster gilr for obesity? Our girls have an epidemic of anorexia and bulemia, and this is what it our shidduch process is perpetuating. I have a proposal for this problem. I personally do NOT like the shidduch process as it exists, and think it should be disbanded altogether, and young people should be allowed to mix and mingle and actually meet each other on their own. Now THERE is a controversial idea. I also think, that barring the Yeshiva world accepting this as a viable means of shidduchim (and I cannot see why, it was done in ancient times on Tu B’av, wasn’t it?), then at least it should be a takanah, that NO shadchan, no obnoxious mother of the boy, nobody, is EVER halachically permitted to ask about the size or weight of the girl. Ask about her middos, her career, her mailos, but not about her physical appearance. That is something that is very subjective.
The daughter of a former Rav ZT”L of mine, was a homely girl. She had a huge nose and bad teeth. But she was always thought to be glamorous by anyone who met her. She put herself together well, and had a sparkling personality. No one really noticed her nose, her teeth, or anything else but her personality. People should not describe someone to anyone who has not met the other person. It predisposes them to thinking of the person in a certain way, and it is best if they get to make their own minds up.December 30, 2008 8:36 pm at 8:36 pm #628805
actually, i never fully understood what really went on on tu be’av. is there a knowledgeable “black-hat” that can explain it? (lol no offense MOs – i love you dearly, but i have a feeling i’m gonna get a different version from you…)December 30, 2008 9:36 pm at 9:36 pm #628806
Brooklyn, not sure why this would be a MO vs Charedi thing, since neither school of thought was around back then.
What I learnt about it, was that each marragiable young woman borrowed a white dress from someone poorer than her, and went dancing in a field, where a man would pick her out. Then they would get married.
Truth be told, it does sound a little strange, so there may be more to it than that, or my memory is completely wrong, so maybe someone who is more knowledgable can answer 🙂December 30, 2008 10:19 pm at 10:19 pm #628807
If only it would be that easy today.. 😉December 30, 2008 11:53 pm at 11:53 pm #628808
well yeah i knew the part about the girls dressing up and going out to dance while the guys checked them out. i was hoping for a little more insight. (didn’t know about the dress from someone poorer, though. must’ve been absent that day:})December 31, 2008 1:36 am at 1:36 am #628810
SJS that is EXACTLY how I was taught. Every girl, rich or poor, had to borrow a dress from someone else, so that the non-wealthy girls had a shot at looking more dressed up.They went to dance in the fields, and the boys got to check them out, and partner up with their desired shidduch. Kinda like a singles weekend. Only it actually worked. I wonder why no one thought it was untzniusdig then. Maybe, because it WASN’T!December 31, 2008 4:55 am at 4:55 am #628811
Was at the nail place tonite on M I was trying to figure out if any of the people there fit your profile…December 31, 2008 4:59 am at 4:59 am #628812
We did roll call earlier – you were the only one absent. now we can mark you as tardy.December 31, 2008 5:00 am at 5:00 am #628813
lol bored@work i was actually gonna go but i got lazy…December 31, 2008 5:03 am at 5:03 am #628814
that is way to funny, you 2 could have met tonite!!!!December 31, 2008 5:06 am at 5:06 am #628815
Bored you should have told me BEFORE…:]December 31, 2008 5:59 am at 5:59 am #628816
boy you people have major chips – so sorry for you
stop blaming the whole world for everything – its tiring already! its the easy way out!
you are required to be attracted to your spouse & thats the way we were created!
if you are not skiny – there is more than one person who doesnt even like skinny
forget – it – just a waste of my time & energy – wont post again b’nDecember 31, 2008 12:17 pm at 12:17 pm #628817
frimchebubche, sounds like you have something in common with Why Do I Even Bother. 🙂
Joseph, for the first time I’m in total agreement with you!!
I’m not dating yet, but when I get to that stage I certainly will not get my hair and nails done every time. I’ve only had my hair professionally done three times in my life, and all three were for very special occasions. Sorry, but a date just doesn’t qualify! When I was younger, my parents used to sometimes treat me to manicures as a special reward for being helpful, or to sweeten a difficult experience (like after a shot at the doctor’s office.) Once I got older, they lost their appeal and now I also only get manicures for close family simchas. I have lots of nail polish at home and I will occasionally do my nails myself, but when I do I find it doesn’t take anywhere near as much time as it would at the salon, what with the drive and the wait. Yes, girls should look put together when they go on dates, but there’s no need to expend huge amounts of time and money on appearance. I know a girl who has beautiful curly hair. She straightened it on every single date she went on, and her husband never saw her hair curly until they were engaged. B”H they’re happily married now, but imagine if he were the shallow type- the wedding might never have happened. To all the girls out there who say they won’t put in so much effort once they’re married, you’re setting yourself up for failure. If you attract a guy who only cares about the physical, your marriage will fall apart just as soon as you move in together and he discovers you don’t wake up in the morning looking like the beautiful doll he dated. You want a guy who will love you for the rest of your life, so you should let him see what you plan to look like once you’re married. Otherwise, you’re wasting your time.
$75 for each date? Put that money to better use; give it to tzedaka.December 31, 2008 2:38 pm at 2:38 pm #628818
jf02, when I read you were in agreement with me, I had to double-check what I wrote to insure it wasn’t a typo.December 31, 2008 2:58 pm at 2:58 pm #628819
well, it seems that in agreeing with jfem, you became the mirror of intellegent. Ensure.
Now I guess I know where all of intellegents “i”s go and where her “e”s come from. I see that mistake all the time. Thanks intellegent, for keeping world balance.December 31, 2008 3:10 pm at 3:10 pm #628820
Thank You Morah squeak!December 31, 2008 6:41 pm at 6:41 pm #628821
brooklyn19, asdfghjkl, beacon- we will just have to make a time before hand and meet, not saying hi but just assuming who the other person is, coming online and having a guessing game who was who…December 31, 2008 7:18 pm at 7:18 pm #628822
lol i don’t go all the way there anyway.December 31, 2008 7:33 pm at 7:33 pm #628823
o u go to the one under the tracks? so you can make an exception this once no?December 31, 2008 7:38 pm at 7:38 pm #628824
I walked in there Friday but it was way too late and I was running late so I just left. Maybe a different week.
And yea we really do need a shadchan here. This thread is getting depressingDecember 31, 2008 8:07 pm at 8:07 pm #628825
lol no i go to one on ave. PDecember 31, 2008 8:32 pm at 8:32 pm #628826
o that is pretty far out, ok so let us know when you are “in the neiborhood”…December 31, 2008 8:38 pm at 8:38 pm #628827
bored- sounds good to me…
myshadow- welcome back! where you been?December 31, 2008 8:57 pm at 8:57 pm #628828
“Oomis ur definately a guy right? No girl that I know has time before a date to sit down and do her nails herself “
OY vey, you could not be MORE wrong!!! I am an old married lady with kinehora four children in the 20s and one who just turned 30. What on earth led you to conclude I was a guy? And when I had dates (way back when dinosaurs roamed the earth), I ALWAYS and only did my own nails, for simchas, too. How hard is it to slap on a coat of polish? I first discovered the joys of manicaures when my kids gave me a gift certificate for a mani-pedi one mother’s day. It’s a nice luxury, but way too costly for a regular event. As a single girl, I worked way too hard to squander my hard-earned money on such things, nice as these luxuries are. And when I got married, there were more important expenses that my hubby and I had to meet. Whenever the dh and I have any fiscal discussions, I remind him how lucky he is to be married to a woman who does not care if she has “real” jewelry, because I amrried my diamond.December 31, 2008 9:02 pm at 9:02 pm #628829
I was so startled to read that someone thought I was a guy, that I made terrible typos in my last post!!!!December 31, 2008 9:03 pm at 9:03 pm #628830
oomis that post is living proof that you are anything BUT a guy. no same guy would say something so cheesy and romantic like “I married my diamond.” lol am i right, guys?December 31, 2008 9:14 pm at 9:14 pm #628831
Lol oomis your kids are lucky to have such a mother..
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