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I saw a great definition of a lamdan:
????? ???? ???? ?? ?? ?? ??? ???”? ??? ?? ??”? ?????? ?? ?????? ????? ?? ???? ?? ?????
(rough translation: someone who can’t fall asleep at night because he is so bothered by a shvere Rambam or a kasha on Tosfos).
How do you define a lamdan?
A real Lamdan would fall asleep, because he found a Terutz to a famous Kasha on a Rambam or Tosafos.
Lamdan used to mean someone who really knows how to learn. One who has learned a lot, knows his learning and is sharp in his learning and knows how to ask incisive questions (and come up with answers). I would say that this definition should still apply although Im sure the requirements have been watered down due to yeridas hadoros.
HaLeiVi: I think the point is that a real Lamdan is the one who cares so much, not necessarily one who can easily come up with answers. Besides, there are stories of big Talmidei Chachamim who would be bothered by Kashos for 20+ years before finding an answer. Not all Lamdanim can easily answer everything.
i am.
They say in the name of the GRA that a lamdan is someone who sits and learns,and not someone who is smart and knows how to learn.He proves it from the word gazlan,if a person is smart and knows how to steal but doesn’t steal he isn’t called a gazlan until he actually does it.
inImy opinion a lamdan isn’t someone who learns a lot OR likes to learn but is someone who is fluent with the gemarah and understands it good. He doesn’t necessarily need to shteig.
The shoresh is lomed = to learn. A good learner or genius is usually called a gaon.
sam-just because it has the shoresh doesnt mean its that exact word it can also mean something connected to that word.
Well then, send them to me.
They say in the name of the GRA that a lamdan is someone who sits and learns,and not someone who is smart and knows how to learn.He proves it from the word gazlan,if a person is smart and knows how to steal but doesn’t steal he isn’t called a gazlan until he actually does it.
But you also need to know how to learn, because you can’t learn properly without knowing how to. So the original argument of “who is considered a lamdan” will continue, just with the added condition that he DOES learn.
Who is a Lamdanis?
shmendrik. doesnt she learn daf yomi?
Toi
You mean daf yomis
I refuse to talk about something so teeef online – mere words would not suffice.
A lamdan, like a talmid hakham, is something that is “she’en lahem shiur.” Talmud torah, mind you, according to the first mishna in Peah, lacks a shiur (no pun intended).
Therefore, being a lamdan, a masmid, or a talmid chacham is something that you strive for. It is a mindset of wanting to learn yomam v’laila.
I don’t presume to take any kavod whatsoever, but at work, very frum coworkers call me a lamdan because they see me always looking to shteig. I come to work with a Kehati mishnayos, and a source sheet I made from the Bar Ilan CD of a different inyan. I am interested right now in learning hilchos kissui harosh for men, so I came with the first teshuva in Igros Moshe printed out and a dictionary, and on my break, began translating the teshuva.
The term “lamdan” is used in different ways. The typical “yeshivishe” usage is the for word “lamdan” to be used in contrast to the term “talmid chacham”. “Lamdan” refers to someone who is able to make fine distinctions within a sugya, with deep analysis. Think R’ Chaim Brisker, The Brisker Rov, R’ Shimon Shkop.
“Talmid chacham” is used to describe someone with a large breadth of Torah knowledge, also referred to as “b’kius”. The two are not necessarily mutually exclusive, but some excel in one area more than the other.
The term used for someone who spends a lot of time learning, and/or whose learning is focused, is “masmid”.
From the “Bar-ilan” Torah DataBase
?? ?? ??? ????? ??? ???? ???.
??”? ???? ???? ??? ? – ???? ??? ???? ?? ?”? ?. ?????
??”? ???? ??? ??? ? ???? ? ?”? ???? ??????
??”? ???? ??? ??? ? ???? ?? ?”? ?????: ?????
????? ???? ???? ??? ????? ???? ??? ?????? ??? ???? ??? ???? ?
????? ???? ???? ??? ????? ???? ??? ?????? ??? ???? ??? ???? ?
????? ????? ????
????? ??? ???? ?????? ??? ????
??? ?’ ??????:
?? ???? ????? ?????? ??? ?????, ?????, ????? ???? ????? ????? ????? ????? ???? ?????? ??”? ???????
Guys, don’t get discouraged:
?????? ??????
The first step to be a lamdan is to be an Anav like me.
YW Moderator-42
Are you shmendrick?!
I think shmendrick’s back.
Shychus – don’t talk about it online; talk to your Bekiyus chavrusa when you go out for a drink – he should know!
The ??? ??? said that a ???? is one with the articularcy of the ???? ??????, the depth of the ??????, encyclopeadic knowledge of the Vilna Gaon, the intelligence of the ????? and the thought processes of ?’ ????? ????.
(Interresting – he seems to be describing the ideal Rebbe more than the perfect ????)
According to that, neither the Noda Biyehuda, nor the Nesivos, the Vilna Gaon, the Tumim, or R’ Akiva Eiger were lamdanim.
No, but the ??? ??? himself was!
Says who?
Yekke
The vilna gaon was extremely deep and incisive he wasn’t just an encyclopedia!!!!! Rabbi Akiva eiger also had encyclopedic knowledge. I really don’t believe the ohr sameiach said this and if he said something similar I think we are misunderstanding his statement. A source would be beneficial.
A true lamdan is one who practices what he learns, in every sense of the word. Learning that does not lead to Torah-infused action is only learning. Action based upon what one has learned, means that the learning has entered that person’s heart.
Dear Rebdoniel,
If you are studying kisui rosh for men, you will be very interested in Prof. E. Zimmer’s chapter on it in his book “Olam K’minhago Noheg”. Chapter One.
I read the anecdote of the Or Sameach in a biography about him. I checked it up and it doesnt’ bring a source.
I only know who is considred a lamdan somebody thats not saying anything just playing words
“as far as I am concerned, if one has forgotten a mishnah in Ohalot, he cannot be regarded as a lamdan.”
– R’ Eliyahu Feinstein
I once was a lamdan, a masmid, and a talmud chacham.
Then I woke up.
Before we take up our time with defining a lamdan, Does anyone even know of a source that it’s important to be a LAMDAN and not just learn with as much Hasmadah as one can??
“Does anyone even know of a source that it’s important to be a LAMDAN”
R’ Avraham Pam in a tribute to his Rebbe:
“To be a lamdan – was an ideal he constantly glorified.”
r baruch ber said that just like there’s bitul torah in quantity, there’s bittul torah in quality. (take that PAA!)
I never disputed that. In fact I can bring you several additional sources about that. Maybe one of these days I’ll start a thread promoting Iyun. My other thread is not saying that you shouldn’t learn iyun (well maybe it is for some types of iyun); it is talking about the prioritization of first gaining a breadth of Torah knowledge.
yaya, just joshing
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