Why don't jews have dogs? It is clear in the gemara and shulchan aruch that

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  • #770405

    brotherofurs
    Participant

    oh and i heard from a Rabbi that you are 100% allowed to have a dog…i’m just scared

    #770406

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Once in Shul the Rabbi allowed a blind man to bring his seeing eye dog (Ive never seen this before)

    (This person was not a regular and ive never seen him before or since)

    #770407

    shlishi
    Member

    A frum lady was put in the hospital a few weeks ago by a neighbors dog who ran into her house and bit her and almost got her baby too.

    #770408

    quark2
    Member

    shlishi where did this happen?

    #770409

    shlishi
    Member

    At the outskirts of Boro Park, towards Bensenhurst.

    #770410

    charliehall
    Participant

    “the Rabbi allowed a blind man to bring his seeing eye dog “

    I’ve seen halachic writings that say that such a dog does not have the halachic status of an animal and would therefore be permitted in a beit knesset.

    #770411

    charliehall
    Participant

    “my grandparents had cats, in order to get rid of the mice”

    If you have cats, you won’t have mice.

    #770412

    brotherofurs
    Participant

    a girl was debating on wearing an extra shirt under her clothing to cover her collarbone.. she decided to wear it and then she got chased by a dog that day who came n top of her and was biting at her she finally escaped after she jumped over a fence… she had many marks on her back but the dog would’ve been able to bite into her lungs but the dog could not get a grip on her because of the two shirts she was wearing!!

    #770413

    brotherofurs
    Participant

    ^-that’s what the experts said when the girl showed them her small bites to see if the dog had rabies

    #770414

    quark2
    Member

    If you look up the statistics you will probably find that crossing the street or driving in a car ONE TIME is more dangerous than owning or being around a dog for a year

    #770415

    Pac-Man
    Member

    And there are how many multiple times more cars than dogs?

    How about compare how many car owners had a dangerous incident versus how many dog owners had a dangerous incident.

    #770416

    quark2
    Member

    pac man the number of cars is irrelevent. My comparison is between ONE PERSON who engages in the activity of either driving a car or crossing the street and his chances of getting hurt, something which most people do without a second thought, and ONE PERSON being around a dog for the time period of one year, and his chances of getting hurt.

    I am pretty sure that you’ll find the former to be a lot more dangerous, yet you would still drive a car, and you would still cross the street. It follows logically that you would also not mind to own a dog, unless you let irrational fears get in the way

    I am NOT trying to compare the number of people who got hurt in a car accident in any particular year, and the number of people who got hurt by a dog in that same year, which would be like comparing apples to oranges

    #770417

    quark2
    Member

    Whats more, I’m quite sure you’ll find that even in the way that you want to compare it, dog owners to car owners, that far more car owners had dangerous incidents than dog owners. But some people might have some kind of irrational phobia, like fear of flying, or of snakes. But I can’t explain why this phobia would be more prevalent in the frum community

    #770418

    Pac-Man
    Member

    If there were as many dogs as cars, you’d have a far higher accident rate of dogs biting men crossing the street, than there is of cars hitting men crossing the street. Simply extrapolate the number of incidents per dog per year, to the number of incidents of per car per year.

    #770419

    quark2
    Member

    I disagree. I think that even if the amount of dogs equaled the amount of cars, the number of people injured in car accidents would exceed the number of people injured by dogs.

    Anyway we can theorize all we want, but since it looks like neither of us know the facts, neither of us can disprove each other.

    Another thing, even if dog injuries would be more, cars may still be more dangerous, since car accidents are usually a lot more serious than a dog bite.

    I gotta go now, nice talking to you, catch ya later!

    #770420

    I have a golden retriever, wouldn’t hurt a fly. We have even trained it as a therapy dog, so it goes to hospitals to visit sick children….dogs get a bad rap in the frum world. I understand for a variety of reasons why they are not for everyone, but for the most part they are wonderful to have around….plus as someone already mentioned, they did not bark as we left mitzraim….so maybe as a “reward” they became domesticated pets and get to live with people……

    #770421

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    I know someone who had a rotwiller, the dog looked mean and had a mean bark.

    You would go to their house , hear it bark and then it would come up to you.

    It just wanted to be petted. It was the friendliest dog you’ve ever seen.

    The only dogs that usually bite are dogs that are trained that way or abused.

    If a dog is trained to be a family dog, they will be very friendly

    #770422

    shedready
    Member

    it is a stupid Brooklyn, Lakewood, willimsburg thing

    outside of those communities frum people have pet cat and dogs they even make kosher for peasach food for pets

    #770423

    shedready
    Member

    quark2

    If you look up the statistics you will probably find that crossing the street or driving in a car ONE TIME is more dangerous than owning or being around a dog for a year

    statistics from the cdc says over the last 20 years the average death from dog attacks is 15 per year

    there are 30,000.000 dog in the usa

    if people would kill at the same rate of doges there would be 150 killing a year

    #770424

    sm77
    Participant

    The problem for frum families to have pets, such as dogs, is that there is a biblical prohibition against neutering animals.

    Another problem is pets are mukzteh on shabbos, so they cannot be handled.

    Walking dogs on shabbos is also a big problem.

    In South Africa, e.g. Johannesburg, it’s the norm, even by rabonim/rosh yeshivas to have dogs in their houses, but that’s

    because of security reasons.

    #770425

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Most people who have dogs usually grew up with dogs and and friends with dogs, so they want a dog.

    Most frum familes did not grow up with one and most of their friends dont have one, so they dont have one.

    Also many people with Dogs either have small familes or no kids. The Pets act as a surragate child (I know people who call their pets FUR-BABIES).

    Frum people have 5-10 kids and do not have the energy to take care of a dog. Dogs are high Maintance pets (and high reward) there is just no energy to take care of one between the energy and the expense involved (Pet Food, Vet etc)

    #770426

    fert
    Participant

    The ans. is obvious it is like asking why we dont have video games

    they are an expensive ,addictive way of self indulgence and wast of time.

    #770427

    quark2
    Member

    Ok so let me crunch some numbers here. According to the stat that shedready said, there were 15 fatalities for 30,000,000 dogs. there were 33,000,000 deaths, for 250,000,000 cars. So lets multiply the number of dogs by 10, and the number of dog deaths by 10. That would be 150 deaths, for 300,000,000 dogs.

    CARS CAUSE MORE THAN 220 TIMES MORE DEATHS THAN DOGS.

    And you want to tell me that dogs are more dangerous?!

    #770428

    gefen
    Participant

    Growing up, we rarely if ever heard of a frum family owning a dog. In the neighborhood in which we now live, there was a time you hardly ever saw it. However, lately, we’ve been noticing more and more frum ppl with dogs. I don’t know the reason for this. I myself would not own a dog just because i’m not really a “dog-person”. If i visit someone who has a friendly dog, i’ll pet it and think it’s cute. But i can’t see myself taking care of one.

    i guess – to each his/her own. as far as the halachic implications, i suppose ppl should ask their local rav.

    #770429

    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Another problem is pets are mukzteh on shabbos, so they cannot be handled.

    do you have a mekor for this which no one argues on?

    #770430

    quark2
    Member

    Take it from the people who actually own dogs. They will all tell you that dogs are the most friendly and lovable creatures imaginable.

    So are you going to be worried about that 1 dog in a million that goes crazy and hurts someone? It’s ludicrous.

    Maybe don’t let people into your home because humans have been known to go crazy and hurt people too!

    (the homicide rate in america is 30,000 or more, I think. and death caused by smoking, which is also caused by people, is over 440,000. Compare that to just 150 deaths caused by dogs. its laughable. like comparing deaths caused by 5 year olds to deaths caused by adults)

    #770431

    shedready
    Member

    Another problem is pets are mukzteh on shabbos, so they cannot be handled.

    Walking dogs on shabbos is also a big problem.

    wrong

    dogs that are pets and not working dogs are not mukzha on shobbos according to many rishonim The gemurha says that a certain bird is not mukzha on shobbos since its utility is not a prohibited on shobbos. the children play with the bird the same can be said about dogs if they are pets. a working dog is a different issue

    the shulchan aurach say you can walk your dog with a leash in a risish horabim on shobbos and it is not considered carrying.

    #770432

    shedready
    Member

    Ok so let me crunch some numbers here. According to the stat that shedready said, there were 15 fatalities for 30,000,000 dogs. there were 33,000,000 deaths, for 250,000,000 cars. So lets multiply the number of dogs by 10, and the number of dog deaths by 10. That would be 150 deaths, for 300,000,000 dogs.

    CARS CAUSE MORE THAN 220 TIMES MORE DEATHS THAN DOGS.

    And you want to tell me that dogs are more dangerous?!

    one can go to the cdc Centers for Disease Control and Prevention

    and see the stats themselves and would be suprised which dogs bite the most.

    As a dog owner, one can many times say if one has mean dog just look at the owner and all questions will be answered.

    In addition a dog is an animal and needs to be trained that certain behavior that is ok dog on dog is not ok with people.

    when dogs play they will mouth or grap another dog with their mouth by the neck that has thick skin or fir. That is just play. However mouthing human is a big no no and should be taught is not ok at all. Some people allow it and say its ok I am a big boy. However what happens when the dog does it to a small child,

    Most dogs are nice like most people are nice. also so kids and i see it some times in the frum community they thing a dog it a toy that they can do with it as a toy. It is not a toy and is a living being that when they thing they are in danger will try to protect themselves like any other living thing.

    in one doe a search one can find many cases of dogs pets risking their lives to save their owner of family. a few years ago their was a fire in a house it was so bad the fireman could not go in. however the family dog did and even thought it was burned it carried the baby the way a dog would carry very small puppies and rescued the baby.

    do a search and see many verified stories like this

    #770433

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Dogs are NOT Mutkzah, the Poop might be nolad though and cleaning up after the dog on shabbos might be a problem

    #770434

    “Another problem is pets are mukzteh on shabbos”

    this is not necessarily the case…there is alot written about it

    #770435

    quark2
    Member

    @fert fisrt of all, since when do we not have video games? I know many people, even in Lakewood (where people don’t have dogs) that have video games.

    Second of all, pets are not a waste of time/money. I posted earlier that many studies have found pets to be beneficial to ones health, to the point where they can actually ADD YEARS to your life, in some situations

    #770436

    quark2
    Member

    BTW could somebody tell me how to view other ppls profiles? I can’t seem to click on the usernames

    #770437

    Many hospitals use dogs to visit with patience, it’s proven that they can be very theraputic…

    #770438

    nishtdayngesheft
    Participant

    Shedready,

    Do you have a dog?

    Do you have a car?

    You say “the shulchan aurach say you can walk your dog with a leash in a risish horabim on shobbos and it is not considered carrying.” Once we get past all the misspellings and garbled language, can you cite the where? (Other than saying you saw it 0n the web.)

    You also say that there were 33 million deaths for 250 million cars.

    By that stat, after almost 8 years, everyone in the US should be dead. Obviously, your “stats” are entirely made up.

    And I love how you quote yourself as a basis for statistics.

    There are a myriad of reasons why people do not have a dog. There is no mitzvah, or chiyuv to have a dog. There are alot of halachic issues one would have to deal with that can well be a disincentive to have a dog. Besides the mess and the cost associated with them.

    Your most brilliant dissertation values dogs greater than humans (Where you mention pets that have gone into fires when humans wouldn’t). Perhaps in your case that is correct. And we know that there was a very evil philosophy that held them same. But most civilzed people do not feel that way. And it certainly is not the Torah way. (Torah, is the guide that jews live by. In case you have not heard of it before)

    #770439

    adorable
    Participant

    because we are scared of them!!!!!!!!

    #770440

    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    quark,

    click on yours then in the internet search bar change your name with whomever you want to search

    #770441

    quark2
    Member

    to the one who brought up the problem of neutering animals, if you buy it like that it shouldn’t be a problem

    #770442

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    It sounds like you are waiting for someone to say it is assur to own a dog.

    I don’t know why you want that.

    But I’ll humor you.

    It is assur to own a dog. If you see a jew with a dog, you can’t eat at their house or drink their wine, or give them an aliya, or bury them in a jewish cemetery.

    You have to bury them in a dog cemetery.

    #770443

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    It is assur to own a dog. If you see a jew with a dog, you can’t eat at their house or drink their wine, or give them an aliya, or bury them in a jewish cemetery.

    You have to bury them in a dog cemetery.

    Is that a permanent p’sul, or does it disappear if you no longer own a dog?

    Also, what if you are a dog? A wolf is more or less just an undomesticated dog anyway…

    And what about someone who owns a hamster?

    The Wolf

    #770444

    Well this is certainly bad news for me, my wife and children…what a bummer 🙁

    #770445

    shlishi
    Member

    why mike? if someone loves dogs, why wouldn’t he love to be buried with them? 🙂

    #770446

    becasue my dog likes to chew on bones 🙂

Viewing 42 posts - 51 through 92 (of 92 total)
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