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Sukkah 6b, as the Gemara says, according to R’ Meir. It is apparent that it applies to things other than walls. See 4b, and Shabbos 97a.
Wouldn’t it seem to makes sense for it to be in its own category?
DaasYochid; gute voch! I am only using this posting as they closed the other one long time ago. You may remember that ,in a different context, on the matter of “bedikas toloim”, you produced a page of the shulchan aruch (joreh deah) with the Pri Chodosh on one side and the “Pri Toar” on the other side. At the time, I did not know who the “Pri Toar” was.Maybe you know this, but in any case, my very erudite sons told me today that it is the “Ohr Hachaim”, famed, of course, for his pirush on Torah.
Why do you assume a Mechitzah means a “wall”? A Mechitzah means something that delineates one object/area/thing from another.
Also, look carefully at every case. Lavud D’Oraisa only applies to Mechitzos. The concept may be borrowed for D’rabannans in other cases.
We see in Shabbos 9, in Tosafos on the Sugya of Kaveres, that Lavud is applied to Mechitzos differently than the typical as-if-it-landed Lavud.
This exact kasaha had been bothering me for years.
(I did not expect it to find it asked on a web site).
Here is the pshat that we finally worked out last Sukkos.
It seems that there 2 types of lavud, one that “fills up” the empty space (Ritva Sukah 16b) and a second one that “pulls” the 2 sides together (Magen Avraham siman 632 s”k 5).
The nafkah minah between the two types is if the halachic width of the wall after lavud includes the empty space or not.
The din of lavud by Mechitzas is of the first type while the general din of lavud is the second type.
The general din of lavud is therefore insufficient to give a Sukkah wall a shiur of 7 tefachim because it just pulls the sides together.
So we need the special din of lavud by Mechitzas to give the wall the full shiur which it can because it fills up the space.
Sam2: Lavud is used to pattur hotzaa on shabbos under 3 tefachim (Shabbos Daf 80).
Lavud is used to pattur hotzaa on shabbos under 3 tefachim (Shabbos Daf 80).
And to be Mechayev, as in Hotzi Chatzi Grogeres according to Rava.
Are we sure that Lavud by Mechitzos is the same type of Lavod as the Din that anything within 3 Tefachim of the ground is considered part of the ground?
A big question dealt with by the Acharonim on this Amud is why the list of Mechitzin agreed to by all Shitos is missing Shelishis Afilu Tefach, which Rashi DH Hilchesa clearly writes is part of it as well. I suggest that it is because the list is comprised only of those Halachos l’Moshe mi’Sinai related to Mechitzin that we have dealt with thus far in the Masechta. If this is so, then the original question is answered as well.
where is this ???”? ?????
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