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David Hamelech says אבן מאסו הבונים היתה לראש פנה the rock that the builders despised was placed at the head corner.
shlucha-“It was quite a shock to the family when he was anointed let alone the country’s reaction when he became king. I guess that’s why it took him so long to establish his kingship. If there was such a shock factor when it came to just the ancestor of moshiach, imagine how it’ll be by moshiach himself. ”
-You mean when the Rebbe gets anointed? And this is why its taking so long because it is such a shock factor? I dont think you couldve been any clearer here. Also where in Daniel does it say that Moshiach will be dead? Theres a difference between concealed or not living.
Anyway can you just stop forcing this on everyone?
Icemelter I didn’t say anything about the Rebbe you did. I responded to one poster who said theres no such thing as coming a second time with the Rashi and my own thoughts based on history that however moshiach is gonna come that’s will probably be some major shock element and we should expect the unexpected. That’s all. Not interested in debating about the Rebbe back and forth because that’s not anything worth arguing about as it isn’t the main point.
Anyways coming a second time has the be the rebbe 🙄
It can’t be chizkiyah or bar kochba or the countless other people that could’ve been moshiach before the rebbe
It probably wont be such a shock since if we see whoever Moshiach is fighting a physical war and leading us we will probably know who it is and be able to point out”zehu Moshiach”! But ya it would definitely be exciting ; )
Concealed means hidden. The only thing that sounds like another religion is ch”v substituting concealed for dead.
Wait, back up, did Gadolhador actually just make CR history by making the first ever pro-talking-in-shul post?
No, you did not or it would not have been approved
Did I miss something? I mean, I can clearly see tons of people talk when they shouldn’t in davening, but I never thought I’d see them take to the internet and take a stand against the Rabbi’s telling them to stop talking and follow the halachah.Is there really a group of people who look at those of us who don’t talk as grumpy guys who can’t get with the times and realize that in 2018 davening is “happy hour?”
shlucha-you still didnt answer any of the questions. You also made some strong hints with your previous posts.
Wait, I did not what?
“It probably wont be such a shock since if we see whoever Moshiach is fighting a physical war and leading us we will probably know who it is and be able to point out”zehu Moshiach”! But ya it would definitely be exciting ; )”
Yes or no. Dovid Hamelech fought many years before the whole klal Yisrael accepted him. Also if the wars end up being fought on a spiritual realm then that could also be a surprise factor. Either way it definitely will be exciting and I’m so sick of waiting!!
“shlucha-you still didnt answer any of the questions…”
Yeah I’m not into pointless arguing or wasting time trying to hash things out with someone who’s mind is made up on the topic to begin with…forgive me if my assessment of you is wrong. I love exchanging ideas, and information, all Torah viewpoints. I don’t like needless arguing. I’ve already contributed allot to threads that discuss this sort of thing. It’s nice to just be able to post as a person a thought that occurred to me without
Every controversial topic being brought in needlessly. As a person I comment on threads I find relevant or interesting. Those include women, moshiach and any other Torah discussion I find relevant enough to me personally to comment on.When it comes to Aggadah
there is a preponderant acceptable position
Those who seek to find it out, check in yotzros ,piyut,,and kinosIn this case that moshiach has not
come at allThat the Lubavitcher Rebbe will be Moshiach is only according to Hillel whose view is that techiyas hamesim will coincide with the comming of the Moshiach, otherwise there will be forty years in between.
“That the Lubavitcher Rebbe will be Moshiach is only according to Hillel whose view is that techiyas hamesim will coincide with the comming of the Moshiach”
No, it’s only according to Chabad Meshichist’s interpretation of that daf.
I would like to return the conversation to the original question and share a thought with the readership. I ask that my words be reflected upon even if it is not the popular way of thinking. I also ask that this not turn into a bashing/defense of the State of Israel. To be sure, the presentation is certainly תלוי באשלי רברבי, but please listen to the words themselves and see if they resonate with you after some time. This is being written in the midst of the Corona pandemic which served as an impetus to crystallize these thoughts in my mind. ד’ ישלח ישועות לכל בנ”י בקרוב!
The Gemara in Megilla (17b) states in explaining the order of the brachos of Shemone Esrei that the second step in the Geula process is Kibbutz Galuyos as alluded to by the blessing of תקע בשופר, the first is the blossoming of the trees on the mountains on Eretz Yisrael alluded to by ברך עלינו. Only later, after more intermediate steps, comes the arrival of Mashiach. The Beis HaMikdash is built either before or after Mashiach comes. (See Rashi (carefully) vs. Maharsha on that Gemara.) Perhaps one of the עיכובים of Mashiach’s coming, is the fact that the majority of Jewry has not taken up the call of Kibutz Galuyos. (See עיון תפילה in the סידור אוצר התפילות who takes it for granted that one cannot meaningfully daven for Kibutz Galuyos and simultaneously not seek the opportunity to move to Eretz Yisrael – I add : at least minimally to investigate if it can be feasible.) To be sure, as many Rabbanim have pointed out, one must be careful in making Aliya to provide for a proper environment for his family and proper educational frameworks for children. But it would appear to me that not enough are seriously considering this important opportunity which Hashem HaTov has provided for us and to are too quick to dismiss it either based on apathy or problems they’ve heard of without investigation if they can be overcome. Making a decision based on כאן נמצא כאן היה when there are indications that Hashem’s will might just be otherwise is never advisable.
Such a move requires great motivation: to uproot one’s family, environment, cultural framework and daily habits. I humbly recommend to read “To Dwell in the Palace” available here: link removed and/or “A Drop in the Ocean” by Rav Moshe Lichtman to awaken the love of Eretz Yisrael. These hopefully will provide the inspiration to start one’s journey which hopefully will result in transplantation of more families to the Holy Land which hopefully, in addition to Klal Yisrael’s fulfilling more fully the mitzvah of Yishuv Eretz Yisrael, will bring the redemption closer.
YCH
I think you forgot or were never aware of Hashems direct shocking wake up call message of the Coronavirus Mageifa Pandemic that was sent down to the world on day one when the mageifa started and is R”L still in middle as I write this:
The Shocking Message directly from Hashem:
Every tragedy has a wake up call message directly from Hashem that your not going to find in any sefer in the world or read in any newspaper from a Gadol Hador or speaker saying about the tragedy. What is the shocking message of the Coronavirus Epidemic-that shut down the entire world starting January 2020-that has already killed millions of innocent lives of all ages? what does Coronavirus mean? Kara-Na-Aveiros,, call out to your aveiros-my loving children klal yisroel-to wake up & do teshuva. But the message from Hashem doesn’t end there, whats the other name for Coronavirus that everyone calls it? i forgot, Covid, what does that mean? what does Covid/Honor do to a person? what does it say in Pirkei Avos? it removes a person from the world, & thats exactly what Covid is doing right now, its removing millions of people from the world as we are still in the midst of this terrible mageifa effecting the ENTIRE world. Let us all ask ourselves who made it be called these crazy names? where does it come from? the dictionary? is this just coincidence or is it a straight sign & direct message from Hashem that its time for all of klal yisroel to wake up & do teshuva? you think about this.Sinas Chinom as explained by the Yad Yosef on Yoma 9, keeping the hatred bottled up in the heart and acting lovingly towards others. We must admonish the individual causing the hatred and thereby we eliminate this behavior to bring Meshiach.
As repeatedly noted in response to the OP, a possible contributing factor are self-styled neviim who claim to speak on behalf of the Ebeshter, attributing every natural disaster, human tragedy, geopolitical confilict etc. as a “warning sign”, constantly condemning the tzibur, calling for “Teshuvah” while continuing to restyle their misguided and mistaken predictions to conform to changing facts on the ground. Reminder of the Evangelical X’tian group whose leader had predicted 6 or 7 end-of-the-world timelines in recent years while each time coming up with some excuse why they are still around to predict yet another Armageddon.
The 2nd Beis Hamikdash was destroyed because of Sinas Chinam, so it would come to follow that to bring Mashiach, we should work on that. It is important to note that according to the Nitzviv (in Hakdamah to one of his seforim), the Sinas chinam which led to the destruction of the Beis Hamikdash, was based on each person thinking that anyone who disagreed with their Hashkafah is a Kofer.
Another point to consider is that the Smag writes that he thinks the reason why Mashiach is not here yet is because people don’t return Taus Akum (extra money given by non-Jews for a loan or the like), which is Halichically permissible (in certain cases). Nevertheless, he felt that for Mashiach to come, we have to make an effort in showing the world how ethical we are. Otherwise, Mashiach would lead to a Chillul Hasdhem, as the nations would question why Hashem redeemed such an unethical nation. When we act above and beyond to jew and non-jew alike, and make a Kiddush Hashem, then Hashem is ready to bring Mashiach.Sanhedrin 98a – ben dovid won’t come until (even) the smallet rulership is emptied from yisroel”
Peacefully dismantling the shmad state in artzeinu hakedosha would be a good start
The State of Israel is not a real yiddishe rulership. It is a modern democracy which isn’t controlled fully by Yidden.
So that statement doesn’t apply to the State of Israel.
Moshaich is ready to come!TS Baum
Mashiach has always been ready to come already for almost 2000 years. But klal yisroel first has to do their Hishtadlus together as one loving nation to be worthy of the ultimate redemption and the coming of Mashiach. This Hishtadlus to make us worthy is including serious Teshuva and Achdus ASAP together as one loving nation and also remove all the sinas chinam (baseless hatred-which is what caused the destruction of the second Bais hamikdosh) that still exists between our loving brethren on all levels from from to frei to Chassidish to MO etc….
May we all way up from just sitting around and help bring Mashiach to come much quicker
Mashiach is not going to magicly apear, it up to us. tut altz vos er kant towards bringing the geulah hamitis vehashleima. The geulah is ready to come we just need to make it ready for him and welcome him by making a dira bitachtoinim down here. וְזֶה כָּל הָאָדָם וְתַכְלִית בְּרִיאָתוֹ וּבְרִיאַת כָּל הָעוֹלָמוֹת עֶלְיוֹנִים וְתַּחְתּוֹנִים לִהְיוֹת לוֹ דִירָה זוֹ בְּתַּחְתּוֹנִים
@Sam Klein
I’m sorry you didn’t understand what I meant. Of course, I 100% agree with what you are saying, we can’t just sit and wait for Moshiach to come, we have to bring him! We have to ker a velt!!!
I was saying that Moshacih could come even if the state of israel is fully intact.
Not to Ch”v mean that we can just sit and twiddle our thumbs all day instead of going out to the world and being mekarev people so that we will bring the geulah closer!“going out to the world and being mekarev people”. What are you bringing close (being mekarev)? are you connecting a yid to the eibershter? Mi Yoideia gedulasa umhaloson bshorshon eloikim chaim? who are you, ts baumb, to say that you are bringing a fellow neshomo close? This neshomah might be on a much higher madreiga then you. Only the eibershter knows this neshomos shaichis. It is up to us to be megala this sheichis in an oifin of giluy to havaye.
would have been an excellent question during the Shoah
nowadays?Moishekapieh
Good point.
That’s exactly what we need to prevent. Open up your eyes. We don’t C”V need another Shoah in order to complete our Teshuva to get us to be worthy[of Mashiach to come. That would be the worseThere are many honest and serious reasons directly from Hashem why the Holocaust had to R”L happen and also why Mashiach is not here yet R”L. Some of the reasons include:
1)Why did WWII happen?all of us would be reform today, don’t start telling me these stories my grandfather learnt in ponovetz yeshiva hes still a צדיק today. We would all be reform today it was just a matter of time Hashem had no choice but to do it. Before the 2 בתי מקדש were destroyed there were only 2 choices what to do (& one of them wasn’t to put a hunger in the land) either kill out all jews or destroy the בית המקדש that was the only makeup for the sins we did then, if Hashem destroyed all the jews then Israel is not full of uncleanliness anymore, if the בית המקדש is destroyed then the holiness left the land & the jews can live (either both holy=no jews or both uncleanliness=no בית המקדש) Hashem had to destroy it we were too low in spirits & couldn’t be with it anymore.
2)I see no reason why Hashem should give us back the בית המקדש. Hashem goes to one person sitting in this corner, he has beautiful children he already bought his house he has a car, he’s so happy hes not grieving over my בית המקדש that’s 1 less person for my בית המקדש. The next person sitting at this corner has beautiful children he loves to learn & has a rich Father-in-law supporting him he’s so happy hes not grieving over my בית המקדש thats 1 less person for my בית המקדש. what is Hashem saying to his Malachim? just look at my children down there look how happy they are i gave them everything cars, planes, computers, Electricity & phones Etc… forget if they are Makir Tov (Grateful) for everything i give them that is not today’s lesson, Let me leave my בית המקדש up in heaven with me when my children cry for it i will give it back to them, but right now look how happy they are. A perfect Mashal would be if a Principal in a Cheder took away a ball from a boy, because he was hitting people with it. If he went to the Principal & said i’m sorry i just want to have fun i won’t hit anyone with it. I give you my word he will give him his ball back. Do you think the Principal needs it? He already has a whole basket sitting in his office. Hashem is waiting for Klal Yisroel to wake up & do תשובה, the gates of תשובה are never closed, the worst kings of Klal Yisroel did תשובה at the end of their life yes, Achav & Menashe look at them, after 30 years of avoda zora Menashe cried & wept out all the way from his heart for teshuva from Hashem & Hashem accepted it WHY? Because he really meant it. Hashem is waiting for Klal Yisroel to do תשובה. Hashem is waiting for the day to put his presence back in this world & bring us back the Bais Hamikdosh but we just don’t seem to be ready.
3) in yiddishkeit, if a person wants something (be it a livlihood, shidduch or child etc…) a person needs to do more then just daven & say tehillim, the person needs to also YEARN for it.-sadly- in today’s society we are living in, we are not YEARNING for the Bais Hamikdosh, we have everything from planes to cars & computers etc… even the gift of Shabbos for Gashmius to sleep & relax etc… HASHEM SAYS to klal yisroel, come back to me when your ready & ask me for something from your HEART & i will give you whatever you want (i’m sure if your child came to you for something you would get it, why wouldn’t you? the love between a parent & child is unlimited…. & that’s the way Hashem loves EACH & EVERY ONE OF US)
All of us have heard, read & seen tons of true stories of people who had their first child at 42 or had a sick child in critical condition, & then the doctor says i’m very sorry but your daughter has only 3 hours to live & then he comes back 2 hours later & says its really a miracle but your child is beginning to recover etc…. Why is it that they finally had a child & the child recovered? There could be tons of answers, but the most common answer Is a Pasuk we say 3 times a day in Davening. Hashem is close to all who call to him, to all who call out truthfully. (Tehillim 145) Because they cried out from their heart, they really meant what they were saying when they davened to H-shem to have a baby or for his daughter to recover etc…. there’s a reason we call Hashem, Avinu She’bashamayim (our father in heaven) Hashem loves us from a father to a son & is waiting to put his Shchina (presence) & his bais hamikdosh back in this world. If we really cried out for the Bais Hamikdosh from our heart with truth & show that we are missing it, then we wouldn’t still be in Golus today.
May we all wake up from our denial sleep as one loving nation together for serious Teshuva and Achdus together ASAP so Mashiach can come already bkarov
Amen!
YWN trolls
Why isn’t Mashiach here yet?
Perhaps heavy traffic on the Belt Parkway coming from the Ohel in Queens to 770
Godol hadorah, petrol prices are too high so i heard he’s coming on a donkey.
Tuna: Unless you are trolling, you obviously know that there is a sign on all the entrance ramps to the Belt Parkway and other limited access roads saying that all animals are assur. Even on city streets, there are special rules for drivers sharing the road with horse and donkey riders:
NEVER honk your horn or wave yellow flags
Provide extra space between you and the donkey (the preferred amount is arba amos)
Pass slowly and quietly only when it is safe to do so (the rider/handler may give you a signal unless he is otherwise engaged in more spiritual endeavors)
Be patient since the klal has already waited for over two thousand years—especially if the rider is trying to maintain control of the donkey while pondering the exact timing of the geulah
Always be cautious and remember that even MbD may not be able to always control the behavior of the donkeyMaybe Mashiach is taking mass transit.
Gadolhatorah
I would have thought with klal yisroel in galus since the destruction of the second Bais hamikdosh in 70 CE (Means 1952 and not over 2000 years ago like you said) i would have thought klal yisroel would have already woken up from living in denial and done Teshuva to be worthy of the coming of Mashiach and the rebuilding of the 3rd bais Hamikdosh which will IYH be forever and never destroyed.
HOW WRONG I WAS…..
may we be the brave generation to show Hashem that we will be the ones to bring kal yisroel worthy of Mashiach bkarov
“Maybe Mashiach is taking mass transit.“
With the state of mass transit today in NYC I don’t think even moshiach would feel safe taking it
YungermanS
Wowow I see you have it all worked out to think and just say all that we all know what has to be done and fixed it disturbed me immensely to see that you are acting as if you know why Moshiach is not here I mean wow I have seen so much achdus and helping hands in my city and people always mean what they say when it comes to teshuva to just predict and say things anyone can do focus more on what you need to do instead of ripping the whole klal in this coffee room. I feel so disturbed that someone can even speak like this!
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