Would this be stepping over boundaries?

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  • #597904
    bortezomib
    Participant

    I’m taking a class in a secular college where I am the only frum (and by the looks of it, though you never know, only Jewish) girl. There are lots of goyim and a few frum boys. I do NOT talk to boys but it’s a calculus class and I need to ask someone my questions!

    It’s not really an option to ask my professor.

    Lets say I know the more mat’im thing would be to ask the goyish girl- would I be stepping over boundaries in tznius by asking the frum guy?

    #786230
    Health
    Participant

    It depends on whether you can get the info you need from the Shiksa.

    #786231
    jewish unity
    Participant

    Although there wouldn’t be something specifically wrong with asking the guy, it’s probably better to ask the other girls. As an aside, I couldn’t tell if this is another question you have, but I think it’s davka a good thing to talk to the non-jewish girls. I think it’s low-risk high reward. There’s very little that can go wrong-obviously no relationship issues and i dont think they’ll be a bad influence b/c if they’re those kind of ppl I don’t think they’ll really want to associate with you. On the positive side, I think you can learn a lot from the different perspective on life they can offer, and I believe it’s a tremendous opportuinty for a Kiddush Hashem. Good luck with whatever you do!

    #786232
    ZeesKite
    Participant

    Why can’t you ask us?

    #786233
    princess17
    Member

    i think u should ask the goyishe girl over the frum guy forsure no question!!! thats my humble opinion u can take it or leave it!

    #786234
    Another name
    Participant

    Tricky question, does your secular college have a calculus tutor? Most colleges supply free tutors to help out with the material.

    #786235
    bezalel
    Participant

    Why can’t you ask us?

    You’re already taking calculus?

    #786236
    abcd2
    Participant

    *Forget about you, one of those guys might also feel uncomfortable helping a girl 🙂

    If you ask for help in front of others(the frum boys as a group, usually they hang out together) instead of just one on one you will not come across as it being a boy girl thing, or that your interested in one specific guy

    however with your concerns.

    It depends also on a) what a few questions are. math problems have to be explained usually and this could take some time a person will probably have to help you a bit before or after class Calculus usually cannot be mastered over a five minute class break.If you feel you need extensive help depending on how important your grade is you might want to get a tutor beside help from classmates.

    b) if any of the frum guys are married, their wives might not appreciate them helping you long term one on one in such a casual atmosphere, while college is like a workplace it is much more casual.(requests of others in the workplace are an accepted norm,I assume in a workplace you would not hesitate to ask the best suited to help you on a project as long as you keep it professional and tznius)

    *On the positive,I know of plenty of wonderful shidduchim (yeshivish btw)that came about as a result of being a small frum clique in college you never know if any of these guys have a friend or brother to redt to you.Hatzlacha

    #786237
    Droid
    Member

    Ask the goyish girls. But don’t become friends with them. And certainly don’t become influenced by them. But like everyone said, it’s still far better than asking a boy.

    #786238
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    I dont know what college you go to, but many have math labs with free tutors. They realize that calculus can be hard.

    In truth once you get it Calculus really isnt that hard.

    #786239
    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    A necessary question on a one time basis wouldn’t be an issue, but this could easily turn into much more than that. Do realize that you already have much in common with these boys, you are almost like their sister in face of the rest. I’m sure if or when a discussion comes up questioning certain foundations of our Emuna, you find yourself either meeting eyes or looking their direction to see how they take it. They might be looking out for you as well. Conversing with them would be like putting a match to a pile of white phospher.

    #786240
    adorable
    Participant

    I would say ask the girls rather. It can get sticky when you start with the guys and there is no reason for that. Just my VERY humble opinion

    #786241
    MiddlePath
    Participant

    Bortez, I’m assuming you are a responsible and mature young woman. That being said, I think you would be doing nothing wrong asking the Jewish guy your questions. Here’s the catch: You obviously are not comfortable talking to guys. So, even if you DID ask the Jewish guy your questions, you would probably not gain much because you would be so flustered talking to him in the first place, it would be difficult to focus on calculus. Since it is essential that you know the material to do well in this course, you should ask whoever you would feel most comfortable talking to, so that you can gain the most information. I actually took a calculus course recently, so perhaps you can ask some questions here.

    Health, I’m sure you didn’t mean it this way, but “shiksa” is considered to some a derogatory word.

    #786242
    adorable
    Participant

    Middle- I agree with you that the fact that she is asking means she would be uncomfortable and therefor not act like her natural self. You would then fantasize….. its just not worth it. You dont want him to decide that he likes you…

    #786243
    Dr. Pepper
    Participant

    Post your questions here.

    Many of us would love to help you.

    #786244

    Talk to the guy. What’s the worst that’ll happen, marriage??

    #786245
    MiddlePath
    Participant

    adorable, that is true. But- I am a guy, and if I were in a class with a Jewish girl, I would actually at some point go over to her and ask her if she needs help with anything class-related, because I would want to help a fellow Jew. I don’t care if it’s a guy or a girl. It would NOT necessarily mean that I like her. I know some of you think this is wrong, but that’s what I would be comfortable doing.

    #786246
    Pac-Man
    Member

    Middle: Do you go over to all the guys in your class too asking all of them if they need help; or do you only do so to the girls?

    #786247
    MiddlePath
    Participant

    Pac, yes, obviously. The guys, too. I said in my previous post- “I don’t care if it’s a guy or a girl.” I would want to help out a fellow Jew.

    #786248
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    My advice go to the best STUDENT in the class. You probably have a good idea who has the greatest grasp of the material in the class.

    It might be the frum guy , it might be one of the non-jewish girls. It might be a non-jewish guy.

    Its pointless to ask for help from someone who has no grasp of the material either.

    Caveat, if the person who seems to have the best grasp is Asian (or any other foreigner) , make sure they speak good english and you can understand them. When I was in college, It was hard to ask some of the Asians for help because they spoke english with a very hard to understand accent.

    #786249
    bortezomib
    Participant

    I could definitely get the info from a non-Jewish girl. I just wanted to know if it it would wrong to ask a boy if

    a. i have zero interest in them and am asking purely for the sake of the test coming up..

    b. they (as a group) and I, are as far as i can tell, the smartest in the class.

    Even I’m wrong about that,

    c. There’s a comfort thing in asking a Jew rather than a goy Especially when I distinctly stick out as a religious girl, I’m sort of on my own.

    There is a math lab on campus, but I volunteer during the day and come in to school with just enough time to make it in time for class.

    abcd2- None of the frum young men are married, actually i think a few are younger (as in, 17, 18) than me! (there goes the “just marry them!” idea)

    haleivi- you must be joking- hashkafic discussions in calculus class?! also, i try to make sure to sit in a place where eye contact is impossible during class

    middlepath- i appreciate that, in that it’s terribly inconveniant that so many people assume that asking a question/volunteering help- automatically means you “like” him/her- which is SO not the case!

    grrr.

    As soon as I have my notebook on me, i’ll post my question- thanks!

    #786250
    wanderingchana
    Participant

    Wish I could help. Good for you for trying. I can’t imagine wanting to take math…

    #786251
    Another name
    Participant

    bortezomib, If you’re volunteering (as opposed to a committed job), would it be possible to take off 1 day to the see the tutor? It would be much easier than dealing with one of the other awkward possibilities.

    #786252
    hudi
    Participant

    Yes it would be overstepping the boundaries of tznius to ask the frum guys.

    Pick a refined non-jewish girl (if you have those). You can identify the refined ones by their speech (they do not curse) and their dress (no low necklines).

    Non-jews are not a different species of people, as I was shocked to find when I started college, straight out of seminary. They have personalities just like we do, and you might even identify with them and even (shocker) like them. However, it’s still important to keep a healthy distance.

    #786253
    Another name
    Participant

    Hudi, I see that you are careful and motivated with hilchos tznius 🙂

    #786254
    Pac-Man
    Member

    Non-jews are not a different species of people, as I was shocked to find when I started college, straight out of seminary. They have personalities just like we do, and you might even identify with them and even (shocker) like them. However, it’s still important to keep a healthy distance.

    The Gemara suggests that the Shichvas Zera of a Nochri has different properties from that of a Jew, since the Nochri eats non-Kosher foods and is physically affected by his diet. The Chasam Sofer (Teshuvos YD 175) writes that this Gemara is relevant in practice. He rules that we cannot assume that a medical treatment that was tested successfully on a Nochri will also be successful on a Jew. Rav Elyashev shlita pointed out that the Chasam Sofer writes that the physical characteristics of a Yid are different than a Goy, and that what applies to one may not apply to the other. Therefore, said Rav Elyashev, how much more so regarding the mind/soul?

    #786255
    bortezomib
    Participant

    Thanks-

    Turns out I have a bigger aversion to going over to a frum boy than I thought I would, (which sort of ends my dilemma), so I ended up asking a non-Jewish girl. (This is not my first semester of college, so I am aware of the issue of boundaries…)

    Another Name- good idea, I plan on doing that.

    #786256
    Another name
    Participant

    bortezomib, I’m glad it worked out in the end. Good luck with calculus!

    #786258
    hudi
    Participant

    Another name – The smily face is enough for me.

    #786259
    Another name
    Participant

    hudi, I meant it 🙂

    #786260
    charliehall
    Participant

    “It’s not really an option to ask my professor.”

    My advice as a professor: Ask the professor. Do not let up until he can explain things so you can understand them. We professors are paid to answer these kinds of questions.

    I will add that I learned the hard way that pestering professors with questions was essential to academic success.

    #786261
    charliehall
    Participant

    ” He rules that we cannot assume that a medical treatment that was tested successfully on a Nochri will also be successful on a Jew.”

    Notwithstanding the Chatam Sofer, there are no treatments that I am aware of that work differently on Jews and non-Jews.

    #786263

    Notwithstanding the Chatam Sofer, there are no treatments that I am aware of that work differently on Jews and non-Jews.

    There are, however, treatments that work differently on members of different races. I forgot which one in particular works differently for people of African origin – I think it is a blood pressure medication.

    It would not surprise me that as we get further and further into genetic based treatments, there will be some that will work differently on many Jews versus many non-Jews based on our shared DNA.

    #786264
    Bob Squappstien
    Participant

    Ask your rabbi.

    #786265
    adorable
    Participant

    bob- you are way too practical! LOL dont think this site is for you…

    #786266
    individual
    Member

    Just a question bortez- are you planning on only working in the frum world after college? What will you do if you have to interact with a non-Jewish co-worker? Or deal with a client or vender? I know it’s a little bit different in college (I was assigned non-Jewish partners in college for multiple projects and I notice that some of them were less responsible), but not that different. It is good preparation for what is afterwards, it helps you establish those boundries that you need in the outside world.

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