Forum Replies Created
-
AuthorPosts
-
WolfishMusingsParticipant
Sigh.
I really don’t want to turn this thread into a debate about evolution, since it’s not the main point of the thread. Let’s just say this:
I think we can agree on the fact that not every word of the Torah is to be interpreted absolutely literally. I suspect you would agree that Chava was not the literal mother of all life (including lions, tigers and bears — oh my!). I think you’d probably agree that HKBH does not have a hand in the literal sense.
I’m also pretty sure that we can agree on the fact that there is far, far more to Berashis 1:1 (and the rest of the parsha) than a simple, literal reading would indicate.
What we don’t necessarily agree on (and, in fact, what I’m pretty sure that we vehemently disagree on) is exactly what *must* be read literally and what *can* be interpreted differently. In addition, while we would probably disagree on just what the meaning behind the simple, plain reading of Beraishis is.
Does that mean that I think you’re wrong? No, it doesn’t — in fact, I don’t know the answer. Is it possible that animals evolved for millions of years (including man-like primates) with HKBH creating a brand new “model” of man? I suppose that’s a possibility. Is it possible that Gosse is correct? Yeah, it’s possible (even if I don’t agree with it). IOW, there are plenty of possibilities out there that can conform to the Torah (provided you don’t hold to a completely literal and simple reading of Beraishis — which I don’t think you do.)
So, what does this mean? It probably means that we have to agree to disagree. I’m willing to admit that I don’t have all the answers to the origin of the universe and of life on this planet. I never claimed to. Nor do I claim to know the ultimate truth that the Torah reveals on the subject.
If you want to discuss evolution, perhaps another thread would be best suited for that. This all started because one careless poster chose to make a joke about a user’s name. Let’s put this topic back in it’s place — the zoo. If you want to discuss evolution, abiogenesis or anything else, I’m more than willing to do so in a thread dedicated to that topic.
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantand as such evolution by definition is Keneged HaTorah.
I noticed you didn’t complain when I said that I was descended from prehistoric wolves. 🙂
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantWolf, no record player there?
No. The needle would jump if the car hit a bump.
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantSo by your own statement you admit that a believer in evolution by definition thinks man descended from a non-human animal (ape or whatever name you want to give it),
I never said otherwise.
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantthere are many aspects to the theory. sof kol sof, yes they do believe humans have evolved from a species that was similar to an ape. ever looked at those pictures?
Ah, but that’s not the same thing as saying that he’s going to visit his ancestors in the zoo. Not one scientist will tell you that man descended from present day monkeys.
Now, personally, I descended from wolfish ancestors, so you *could* ask me if I was visiting my ancestors in the zoo. But the same does not apply to the poster to whom BLAHBLAH was poking fun at.
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantI would love to hear you expound on the irony of my statement.
Perhaps I misinterpreted what you said. I will retract and ask your forgiveness.
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantJoseph,
Yes you did. My error and apologies.
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantHeh. *My* first car had a tape deck too… an eight-track! 🙂
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantand you just have to know your kids.
I could have *sworn* that I heard that said somewhere… 🙂
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantThe solution to this so-called ”crisis” is more Torah learning, more Kollel yungerleit, more Yeshivas, and more Yiddishe kinder.
Care to elaborate on how that solves the “crisis?”
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantIf relativity were controversial, would we give any weight to the opinion of a 16 year old supporting one side or another?
Why not? The factuality of what he says does not stand or fall based on his age. He is either wrong or right, regardless of his age.
There’s too much to analyze for someone to have a true opinion just after reading a single slim book.
Oh, the irony! 🙂
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantdarwin im confused your going to visit your granparents in the zoo?
You know, if you want to state that you don’t believe in evolution, that’s fine. But at least know what you’re talking about. The theory does not state that people descended from monkeys. It never did.
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantThe points you raise (including mixing with females) are very serious, and worthy of great consideration.
Why should mixing with females be more of an issue than in any other workplace?
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantAside from the Pekuach Nefesh problems, once you are in the service (and even while you are training), are you able to maintain Shabbos Kodesh 100%?
I think a frum military chaplain would be best equipped to answer that question.
The Wolf
December 29, 2008 11:56 pm at 11:56 pm in reply to: BREAKING: Lipa to do another concert – “The Event”? #630136WolfishMusingsParticipantBrooklyn,
You’re not telling me how to use my common sense… I’m trying to find out the extent of your rule. I *already* know how I would act in each of the cases I mentioned.
When you use vague terms like “any event,” I want to know the extent of that “any” according to you. While you (and I) may think it’s obvious that a five-year’s old party (sans the exotic dancers) can proceed without a gadol’s haskama, others may not feel so. Since you were vague in your rule, I simply wanted to find out how far you were willing to go with “any.”
The Wolf
December 29, 2008 9:50 pm at 9:50 pm in reply to: BREAKING: Lipa to do another concert – “The Event”? #630134WolfishMusingsParticipantBrooklyn,
So then I ask you: what is the definition of a “public or private event” that requires the haskama of a gadol?
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantAnd I know of plenty of kids who played with matches and didn’t get burned.
Are you giving your 13 year old a box of matches to play with?
And there are plenty of adults who crash cars. Are you giving adults cars?
The point is that there is no “one size fits all” rule. You have to know your kids. If they are capable of using the technology responsibly, then they can use it. If they can’t use it responsibly, then they shouldn’t be allowed to use one.
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantDov,
That’s a fair argument. Present it to the school heads. If they don’t like it, you’re always free to start a school with no Channukah vacation.
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantAshreinu,
My apologies for upsetting you. I’ll attempt to stick to the topic at hand.
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantwolf – yes the combination makes it a much more dangerous object.
I’m not so certain that I agree with you, but that’s neither here nor there, I suppose. Ce la vie.
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantChaim,
Well, let’s look at the points you provided:
1. Every activity has a certain amount of risk involved. Even just getting up and walking across the street. I’m certain that there are civilian jobs that are more dangerous than those of a non-combat solider in the Air Force. Of course, you still have to do your hishtadlus to determine if you are, in fact, putting yourself at *unnecessary* risk.
2. I know next to zilch about military culture, so I can’t really address this point. All I can tell you is that there are frum chaplains in the military. Perhaps you should reach out to one of them and have a serious discussion on the matter.
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantJoseph,
I don’t think that you’ll find that I ever called anyone an idiot. I have expressed that certain *ideas* are foolish. I have said that certain *attitudes* are even beyond comprehension. But I don’t attack people. And, in the event that you find that I have, then I ask mechila – because that wasn’t my intention. I attack ideas and words, not people.
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantJoseph,
I have never made fun of the “uncultured idiots of the Coffee Room,” as you so derogatorily put it. Sometimes, however, I do find statements that are so outlandish (such as the ones about statistics not affecting yidden) that I do call attention to them (and, as originally presented, that post wasn’t even doing that — it was simply presenting my POV on the value of education). But attack people? Sorry, I don’t do that. Most of my posts that involve the YWN coffeeroom are to discuss (and offer my views) on subjects that come up here.
I don’t know why you have such venom towards me. You offered an opinion that it might be assur to serve in the military because of pikuach nefesh. I simply asked you to define that and to find out if you held that other occupations that have a higher mortality rate are also assur. That’s no reason to get upset with me.
The Wolf
December 29, 2008 8:32 pm at 8:32 pm in reply to: BREAKING: Lipa to do another concert – “The Event”? #630133WolfishMusingsParticipantOK, then I ask you — what’s the definition of a “private or public event” that requires a rav’s haskama? And which ones can I just do on my own based on my own knowledge?
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipanttalking, texting, picture messages
The same could apply to any telephone, typewriter or camera. Why not ban them? Because they’re not combined into one device? So what?
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantWolf, you asked a different shaila than the OP.
That’s right… but you didn’t answer the OP’s question at all. You castigated him for possibly putting his life at risk. So, I asked you what the acceptable level of risk is. If you don’t know the answer, then don’t castigate the OP for it.
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantIndeed. The zionist army is probably the MOST morally corrupt military in the Universe.
Oh, please. Cut the hyperbole and do some reading on military coups in the last fifty years. If you object to the Israeli Army, fine — but stick to reality.
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantWolf, That is a good shaila.
Well, since it’s a good shaila, why don’t you ask it before condemning the OP? There are plenty of occupations that you wouldn’t blink an eye at that are more hazardous than being a non-combat soldier in an air force.
The Wolf
December 29, 2008 5:16 pm at 5:16 pm in reply to: BREAKING: Lipa to do another concert – “The Event”? #630128WolfishMusingsParticipantand yes, Wolf. before any public or private event is held, it would be kinda nice if the people involved would get it approved.
Brooklyn,
Wow! Any event public or private? So I have to go to a gadol and get his approval before I get married? I have to get a gadol’s approval before and upsherin, a bar mitzvah or a plain ol’ birthday party? I have to get a gadol’s approval before I hold a kiddush in my shul? If I want to have my parents and a few friends over for an afternoon with the kids, that’s got to have a gadol’s approval too? A gadol has to approve every chinese auction, every BY play, every concert, every shiur given in every shul or other venue and every minyan?
Or am I misinterpreting what you are saying when you say “any public or private event?”
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantWhat heter is there to putting ones life at risk (pekuach nefesh) in the service of a non-Jewish military?
I know of none.
Joseph,
I’m curious… what is the statistical level of risk that is acceptable in pursuing one’s livelihood? What does the maximum fatality rate that is acceptable?
The Wolf
December 26, 2008 1:18 am at 1:18 am in reply to: BREAKING: Lipa to do another concert – “The Event”? #630117WolfishMusingsParticipantHave gedolim approved this concert?!
Do we have to have the gedolim’s permission before any public event (or private?) is held?
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantI have a simple policy when it comes to predicting when Moshiach will come.
Don’t predict. When he gets here, HaShem will make it perfectly clear. Simply wait for him every day and quit trying to make cheshbonos… you’re only bound to be disappointed if you’re wrong.
While we’re at it, I have a personal pet theory as to who Moshiach will be:
Anyone who can get all of K’lal Yisroel to agree that he’s Moshiach has to be the real deal. If someone could get all Ashkenazim and Sephardim, Chassidim (for all different sects) and “Misnagdim,” Yeshivish, MO, Chareidi and DL to agree that he’s Moshiach, then he’s got to be it.
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantPrecisely… they can both abuse it.
Or they can both use it properly. Ultimately, like anything else, it’s up to the parents to know their kids and determine whether or not they are capable of using it responsibly. If they can, then it might be appropriate. If not, then it’s not.
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantWhy is it any less appropriate for a teenage girl than a teenage boy?
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantIf you want to quote actual lines from his speech, you will need to pay royalties to the King Foundation.
No you don’t. Using excerpts in an academic paper clearly falls in the context of fair use.
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipanthey i agree that a normal education is necessary! but don’t go saying that it’s impossible to become a somebody without it. lol i’m in college now – if i thought i had a fighting chance without it, i highly doubt i’d take on all this work.
Unless you have some rare and valuable skill, it is just as impossible as winning the lottery. IOW, it’s possible in theory, but I wouldn’t advise relying on it in practice.
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantdd,
You’re right that the stats don’t prove causality. But there *is* a *very* strong relationship between the two factors (income and education) and it cannot be dismissed out of hand.
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipanti hold that statistics dont affect us yidden.
BLAHBLAH,
I’m calling your bluff. You don’t really believe that.
I believe that you wear seat belts in the car, which has been proven statistically to greatly improve your chances of surviving an accident.
I believe that when you go to the doctor, you follow his/her advice, which is largely based on statistical studies.
Saying “statistics don’t affect us yidden” is similar to saying “physics don’t affect us yidden.”
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantThat’s fine anon… we all make mistakes.
The point here is that Cruise (and Joel) are the exceptions to the rule. They can succeed without a formal education because they have a skill that is exceedingly rare and valuable. Most people (by definition) don’t have a skill that is exceedingly rare and valuable. You can’t look at the exceptions to the rule and posit them as the rule, which is what BLAHBLAH and Brooklyn19 were doing. Unless you know someone has a particular rare and valuable skill, you shouldn’t be telling them “well Billy Joel succeeded without schooling and so can you.”
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantOh, and one more point… Tom Cruise did graduate high school. He graduated from Glen Ridge High School in 1980 (age 17).
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantBrooklyn,
As someone already pointed out to you, Albert Einstein did go to college. In fact, he earned a PhD from the University of Zurich.
The Wright Brothers did not complete high school — that is a fact. Nonetheless, they lived in an age when completing high school was more luxury than necessity. Many people in the 1880s and 1890s did not complete high school; they were often forced to go looking for work to help out the family. That reality, however, does not exist today. You really can’t use The Wright Brothers as a comparison. Were they alive as teenagers today, you can bet your bottom dollar that they would complete their high school education.
Billy Joel and Tom Cruise have a fairly unique quality — they have been blessed with very unique talents. Not any shlub off the street can walk into a studio and open a $100M movie based on name recognition alone. Not any shlub can announce a concert at Shea Stadium and sell out the tickets 45 minutes after they go on sale. The fact is that these people (like many professional athletes) have such unique skills that they don’t need an advanced education to make a ton of money. But the fact of the matter is that the reason they can make so much money is because their skills are exceedingly rare. You can’t tell the average kid “it’s okay to drop out of high school like Celebrity X,” because the average kid doesn’t have the God-given unique talents that Celebrity X has.
That being said, let’s talk about what the more typical kid might find. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, here are the usual median weekly earnings of people in the US by education for Q3 2008:
Less Than High School: 471
High School Diploma: 618
Some College Education: 725
Bachelor’s Degree: 1020
Bachelor’s Degree or more: 1131
Advanced Degree: 1333
I have data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics going back to 2000, and the relationship between education and salary always holds. The more education the average person has, the more they earn.
Is it possible for a person with little or no education to strike it rich? Absolutely. But in just about every case, you’ll find that the person either has an incredibly rare and valuable skill or is incredibly lucky (and won the lottery). For the other 99.99999% of the population, you need an education.
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantthere have been many successful people who have droped [sic] out of school
I think that I would ask for a definition of the word “many” in this context.
Nonetheless, yes, there are people who have been successful despite dropping out of school – but those people are the (exceedingly rare) exceptions and not the rule.
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantBogen,
Are you saying that they would view amateur and professional photographers as <i>ovdei avodah zarah</i>? That doesn’t sound right. Please tell me that I’m misunderstanding you.
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantFor both my son’s bar mitzvahs, we had a “sit where you like” policy. No one complained. (And we’re not chassidic).
The Wolf
November 26, 2008 9:36 pm at 9:36 pm in reply to: Is a Boy Looking to Date a Girl or a Chavrusah? #1217842WolfishMusingsParticipantAnd is the truth from the mouth of a donkey any less the truth? IOW, the factuality of a statement is not defendant on who said it. Feel free to call me a donkey if you like, it still doesn’t change whether the statement is true or false.
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipant<i>I tell people that I am a greeting card salesman.
YW Moderator-86 </i>
Ooooh! And I’m old enough to get the reference.
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantAs Ed Norton* said: “Garden spot of the world — Brooklyn, USA.”
The Wolf
* (No, not the actor. If you thought it was him, you must be under 20).
WolfishMusingsParticipantRead the article and it still doesn’t say which states / countries will be able to see this.
Israel? Mexico? Sydney? London? New York?
It shouldn’t make a difference. Certainly anywhere in the Northern Hemisphere and in most places in the Southern (the extreme Southern Hemisphere might not see it because the sun will be too bright all day).
The Wolf
November 26, 2008 8:21 pm at 8:21 pm in reply to: A mitzvah for an aveira? or at someone else’s expense? #626777WolfishMusingsParticipantThanks. Not everyone will of course. YMMV.
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipanthttp://www.physorg.com/news146849510.html
Starting Thanksgiving evening, Jupiter and Venus will begin moving closer so that by Sunday and Monday, they will appear 2 degrees apart, which is about a finger width held out at arm’s length, said Alan MacRobert, senior editor at Sky and Telescope magazine. Then on Monday night, they will be joined by a crescent moon right next to them, he said.
Look in the southwestern sky around twilight – no telescope or binoculars needed. The show will even be visible in cities if it’s a clear night.
The Wolf
-
AuthorPosts