Dear YWN,
How many times are we going to keep writing about the seminary insanity before someone actually does something about it?
I am not even addressing the degrading application process, the subtle humiliations, the endless interviews, the social competition over which “name” you were accepted to, or the tired lines about “rebranding” and suddenly taking fewer girls from certain schools.
I am talking about something far more dangerous: the financial catastrophe.
This is no longer $25,000. It is no longer $30,000. We are staring at $40,000 — and sometimes more — for ONE year. For what? Who can afford this? Which normal family with multiple children can absorb this without crushing debt?
Enough is enough.
Why are we silent?
Why are schools and teachers pushing this as if it is some automatic next step in life? Since when did a year in Eretz Yisroel become a mandatory luxury item that families must bankrupt themselves to provide?
Thousands of families are quietly drowning. Credit cards. Loans. Second mortgages. Borrowing from relatives. Parents losing sleep at night. Younger siblings’ futures compromised — all to fund one year that somehow became “non-negotiable.”
And for what? So a handful of seminaries can continue raising prices unchecked? So owners and administrators can operate in a system that no one dares question?
Where is the leadership?
We see kol korehs for every issue under the sun. Where is the collective voice addressing this crisis that is pushing families into debt year after year? Where is the clarity that this is not a halachic requirement, not an obligation, and certainly not something that should come at the expense of financial stability?
Why are we not strongly encouraging local seminaries that have opened in the Tri-State area? Why are we not investing in quality chinuch closer to home at a fraction of the cost? Why is the default still sending every girl overseas regardless of a family’s circumstances?
This has spiraled into pure madness.
It is time to stop pretending this is normal. It is not normal for middle-class families to feel forced into crushing debt to maintain social expectations. It is not healthy. It is not sustainable. And it is not fair.
STOP THIS MADNESS NOW.
Signed,
A Concerned Parent
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31 Responses
For $40k, you can make a beautiful wedding for your daughter rather than wasting money on silly ego driven Israeli seminaries.
So don’t. Just don’t. Solved.
What about all the years “boys” spend only learning instead of making a living in a trade or profession so that they don’t become Poor impoverished living off of stressed
in-Debt Parents and in-laws and have no money to pay tuitions, rents, mortgages.
I watched the video and the energy I got from it was that the non Jewish people feel very disinfranchised pushed out of their community and their needs not taken seriously by the Jewish community. Is that our problem. Dunno but perhaps taking other people not just our own into account might go a long way to appeasing angry and hurt behaviour
Vote with your feet.
Send local.
Send to a less expensive one
These are private for profit enterprises.
Not sure what you’re complaining about
Start your own
Supply and demand.
Obviously enough people want to send there and they feel they get their money’s worth
You can’t fargin someone making money?
Dear YWN,
How many times are we going to keep writing about the attorney fee insanity before someone actually does something about it?
I am not even addressing the degrading retainer agreements, the subtle humiliations, the endless consultations, the social competition over which “name” firm you retained, or the tired lines about “value” and suddenly charging more for certain types of cases.
I am talking about something far more dangerous: the financial catastrophe.
This is no longer $500 per hour. It is no longer $800 per hour. We are staring at $1200 per hour — and sometimes more — for top attorneys. For what? Who can afford this? Which normal family with multiple children can absorb this without crushing debt?
Enough is enough.
Why are we silent?
Why are schools, rabbis, and community leaders pushing this as if hiring expensive counsel is some automatic next step in life? Since when did retaining a high-powered lawyer become a mandatory luxury item that families must bankrupt themselves to provide?
Thousands of families are quietly drowning. Credit cards. Loans. Second mortgages. Borrowing from relatives. Parents losing sleep at night. Younger siblings’ futures compromised — all to fund legal representation that somehow became “non-negotiable.”
And for what? So a handful of elite firms can continue raising rates unchecked? So partners and administrators can operate in a system that no one dares question?
Where is the leadership?
We see kol korehs for every issue under the sun. Where is the collective voice addressing this crisis that is pushing families into debt year after year? Where is the clarity that this is not a halachic requirement, not an obligation, and certainly not something that should come at the expense of financial stability?
Why are we not strongly encouraging more affordable local attorneys or mediation services that have become available in the Tri-State area? Why are we not investing in quality legal guidance closer to home at a fraction of the cost? Why is the default still retaining the most expensive counsel regardless of a family’s circumstances?
This has spiraled into pure madness.
It is time to stop pretending this is normal. It is not normal for middle-class families to feel forced into crushing debt to maintain social expectations. It is not healthy. It is not sustainable. And it is not fair.
STOP THIS MADNESS NOW.
although I wholeheartedly agree with EVERYTHING you have said, im curious to know why you would think putting your whole arichus here is going to change anything.
do you think (maybe) people disagree?
do you want people to rant about seminary?
Dear YWN,
How many times are we going to keep writing about the outrageous costs of medical, dental, and orthodontic fees before someone actually does something about it?
I am not even addressing the degrading insurance battles, the endless paperwork, the surprise bills, the social competition over who has the “best” specialist, or the tired lines about “network limitations” and suddenly higher out-of-pocket costs.
I am talking about something far more dangerous: the financial catastrophe.
This is no longer $5,000 or $10,000. We are staring at $40,000 — and sometimes more — for major procedures or full treatment plans. For what? Who can afford this? Which normal family with multiple children can absorb this without crushing debt?
Enough is enough.
Why are we silent?
Why are doctors, dentists, and orthodontists pushing these treatments as if they are some automatic necessity in life? Since when did getting braces, implants, or major dental work become a mandatory luxury item that families must bankrupt themselves to provide?
Thousands of families are quietly drowning. Credit cards. Loans. Second mortgages. Borrowing from relatives. Parents losing sleep at night. Younger siblings’ futures compromised — all to fund treatments that somehow became “non-negotiable.”
And for what? So a handful of specialists and practices can continue raising fees unchecked? So owners and administrators can operate in a system that no one dares question?
Where is the leadership?
We see kol korehs for every issue under the sun. Where is the collective voice addressing this crisis that is pushing families into debt year after year? Where is the clarity that this is not a halachic requirement, not an obligation, and certainly not something that should come at the expense of financial stability?
Why are we not strongly encouraging more affordable local options, community clinics, or payment plans that actually help? Why are we not investing in accessible, quality care closer to home at a fraction of the cost? Why is the default still pursuing the most expensive specialists and full-course treatments regardless of a family’s circumstances?
This has spiraled into pure madness.
It is time to stop pretending this is normal. It is not normal for middle-class families to feel forced into crushing debt to maintain health expectations or appearances. It is not healthy. It is not sustainable. And it is not fair.
STOP THIS MADNESS NOW.
Dear YWN,
How many times are we going to keep writing about these escalating **social and yom tov expectations** before someone actually does something about it?
I am not even addressing the subtle competitions, the social pressures, the endless comparisons over whose mishloach manos looked the most impressive, or the tired lines about “it’s just what we do” and suddenly needing to outdo last year.
I am talking about something far more dangerous: the financial strain.
This is no longer a **meat board** for Shabbos or Yom Tov at $100 or $150. It is no longer $200. We are staring at **$250** — and sometimes more — for one simple platter. For what? Who can afford this? Which normal family with multiple children can absorb this without feeling squeezed?
Or take **shalach manos** for Purim. This is no longer $50 or $75 for a nice package. We are now routinely seeing **$150** — and sometimes far more — per basket when you factor in the elaborate themes, gourmet items, and ever-growing lists. Multiply that by dozens of recipients and it becomes a real burden.
Even something as simple as **donuts for Chanukah** — once a modest treat — now runs **$15** or more per dozen for the “good” bakery ones everyone expects, and families are buying multiple boxes to share or send.
Enough is enough.
Why are we silent?
Why are communities and influencers pushing these as if they are automatic parts of Jewish life? Since when did a fancy meat board, elaborate shalach manos, or upscale sufganiyot become mandatory status items that families must stretch themselves thin to provide?
Thousands of families are quietly struggling. Credit cards. Cutting corners elsewhere. Borrowing from relatives. Parents losing sleep at night. Kids’ needs postponed — all to keep up with expectations that somehow became “non-negotiable.”
And for what? So a handful of caterers, bakeries, and ready-made vendors can continue raising prices unchecked? So the system keeps escalating without anyone daring to question it?
Where is the leadership?
We see kol korehs and communal announcements for every issue under the sun. Where is the collective voice addressing this creeping crisis that is pressuring families into unnecessary spending year after year? Where is the clarity that these are not halachic requirements at these inflated levels, not obligations, and certainly not something that should come at the expense of financial stability?
Why are we not strongly encouraging simpler, more meaningful, and far less expensive ways to celebrate? Why are we not investing in homemade options, modest portions, or community-wide limits that keep things reasonable? Why is the default still extravagant displays regardless of a family’s circumstances?
This has spiraled into pure madness.
It is time to stop pretending this is normal. It is not normal for middle-class families to feel forced into financial strain to maintain social expectations. It is not healthy. It is not sustainable. And it is not fair.
STOP THIS MADNESS NOW.
Whatever the number, it is certainly expensive.
But are you stating that tuition and room and board in total are around $40,000 and not around $30,000?
Also, did you look into any options whereby you’d be able to apply for federal and/or state aid, as you would for a typical university or college? Since you mentioned multiple children, B”H, wouldn’t you qualify for government aid by filing the FAFSA, which could significantly reduce that total cost?
Finally, for comparison, have you checked what the domestic seminaries charge? Have you also checked what boys yeshivos charge (domestic and foreign)?
All of this information should help clarify how much, if any, you feel they are overcharging.
Hatzlacha Rabba.
Can we stop this stupidity of pointing at one particular expense and saying that it’s insane or that we are being taken advantage of or that so-and-so is robbing us blind and so forth?
The reality is that we have a severe cost-of-living crisis that is not limited to tuitions, tutoring, the cost of weddings, the cost of seminary, or the cost of an Esrog.
We’re essentially facing a perfect storm for a cost of living crisis. It’s not just the leftover sting of inflation; it’s the fact that our basic expectations for life have gotten more expensive just as the USD-NIS exchange rate turned against us (this is the biggest driver in the dramatic increase in seminary tuition. It’s the same ~120,000 shekel, but the dollar has about 20% less buying power). Toss in high interest rates that are choking off business growth and AI making the job market more competitive, and you’re left with stagnant income growth and way less upward mobility for the average person.
A family must now earn $300k+ to make ends meet if they not taking programs.
Putting aside $500k per child to pay for a wedding, support, helping them with a down payment, and helping them get started (open a business, get a degree, or training for a job), is a target that makes sense in today’s environment, but is unattainable for nearly everyone.
So, in short:
Yes, we have a problem.
No, it isn’t simply the cost of seminary tuition or homeownership etc. it’s a structural problem that won’t be solved by kvetching about the poor exchange rate. It requires solutions at the national level with monetary and fiscal policy changes.
And even then, it will take many years (a decade plus) to recover.
Seminaries are run by demented people who only do damage. They try to inflict division in Klal Yisroel, and try to get girls to marry a philosophy rather then marrying a man (very bad if you want a happy marriage) There is NO benefit to sending your daughter to seminary at all, and should be avoided at all costs.
Also, the lie that is being spread that guys care if a woman went to seminary is just that, a lie.
It’s crazy. Years ago I sent my older daughter to seminary. Costed then about ten thousand. I could afford it. But my younger daughter I decided to marry her off young instead. Im using saved seminery money for the wedding.
The seminar business is mainly in american hands .
It’s american culture money above all
As a israeli oleh from europe for 10 years I can tell that it’s may be worth 20 % of what you are supposed to pay .it’s a luxury real waste of money
Your communities are strong enough to offer better teaching for less money
Go and do it
As we stand on the cusp of Purim and I read the comments above, I understand why we have matonos l’evyonim. Our own people have created evyonim or poor people. The “system” has made us evyonim and for the reasons stated above, we continue to be evyonim because of that old saying, “monkey see, monkey do”. Frum Jews have no courage to stick by their guns. I truly question who are the recipients today of matonos l’evyonim. People truly in need or people who are throwing their money away because the “system” told them where and how to spend their money.
You’re so right.
And since when did it become mandatory for every family to drive a brand new Honda Odyssey?
How did this happen? With all the crushing debt and high tuitions this is absolutely terrible. Where are the rabbonim on this issue? All of a sudden the askonim are silent!
This madness must stop NOW!
I challenge a talmid chochom to define for me who is considered an evyon b’zman hazeh?
40 grand and they don’t accommodate succos and pesach either…go figure. The administrators are laughing at dumb ashkenaz fools
Dear klal Yisroel, help is on the way. This absurtity called seminary will sooner than later come to an end. The main thing to realize is that the vast majority of the yeshivishe wrold is extreamly frustated with the system of seminary in place. Whether its becuse of its high expense, or the hefkeros, or the hashkafos (some semenary rebbitzions feel it’s their responsabilty to uproot many of the hashkafos the girls ware mekabail at home or on their schools), or any other reason that people have. In my opinion when the generel public is so fedup with somthing it is just a matter of time untill it will end.
The solution unfortunately is not through Kol Kores as we see in most cases thy don’t work, and I stress “unfortunately” because the rabbanim don’t have the power thay should have.
I beleive the real solution is for popular people that have the means yichus etc. to make good shidduchim to step up and say we will not send our daughter, this will be the begining of the dismantling of the whole seminary system. We need people to orgnize and publicize such a group and I think thats the begining of the end of this terrable reality.
Stay strong help is almost there
Moshe B.
Askonim are also in the loop. They too drive fancy cars as they claim they need it to impress everyone else. An Askon with a beat up car will not get the respect or trust from the rest of the community. They will say if he can’t even get a luxury car he is a loser. And there is another situation brewing. Young chevra today are increasingly getting German yemach shemom cars. You see more and more Mercedes,BMW etc German cars in the hands of not only tuna bagels but heimisha ladies. They are all third or fourt generation holocaust kids. Everything is gashmiyos. Everyone is busy getting party planners of the highest expense. If a wedding is simple then they are looked upon as karga mentchin. You want a big rabbi to come to your house to give your kids a brocha then flash big bucks to the gabbaim. What do you think kids think when they see that. Just make big money any way you can and you are respected. You don’t have to daven,you just need to buy a streimel for eight thousand dollars and if you don’t keep shabbos a hundred per cent but chew on yapchick your Chushiv.
Change on this issue does not come from rants on YWN or any other media outlet. It comes from action. It is not fair or proper to tell a parent, “You need to be the bad guy and just tell your daughter tough nuggies. We can’t afford it,” and then have your child resent you for the rest of her life. That is a lousy solution. A practical solution is education. Educate CHILDREN about finances. Explain to them “your parents may be struggling to pay for all the expenses in today’s frum society. Do YOU really want to put pressure on them? Do you understand how much they give you on a daily basis? Is it fair to expect them to shell out $40k for this expense? If it is really important to you, are there ways you can earn $ to help pay for it or take out loans?
It starts with education and expectations. Instead of complaining to the air, ask your schol to implement a course on financial literacy that is based on morals.
And yes this will address Baltimore maven’s endless list of large expenses
If you don’t like it, don’t do it. DO NOT! Stop creating your own problems and then blaming everyone to solve it The chasidim don’t send to seminary overseas and most don’t even send local. They marry young and they turn out just fine, if not better!
Rabosai:
We are observing a perfect business model, and we should be gazing at it with wonder.
Here’s what a business needs to do to succeed. Offer a service (or product) that is a luxury, market it as a necessity, and manipulate the public into buying into the ruse. This doesn’t work that well with true necessities.
Here’s the application of the model. Seminary for girls has zero value. The same aishes chayil can manage a home with all the trappings of kedusha and genuine spirituality without attending seminary. Most people realize this, whether they articulate it or not. Then comes the manipulation, convincing the public that a particular seminary is exemplary in what it offers, placing a price tag that gives additional support to the image of the institution being supreme, and creating a public image that this creates a tzadeikes of a girl that will merit the best shidduch.
Once upon a time, seminary was created to prepare young girls to be teachers. The original Bais Yaakov seminary in NY was actually called “Bais Yaakov Teachers Seminary”. But that was poor marketing, and was only successful back then. Today, one needs to push the “necessity” of seminary for everyone, or else.
Well, this model succeeded. It creates major competition, with enough collusion to keep the prices high. And, oilem goilem still fills these programs at huge cost. None of our Imahos attended seminary. And they established the homes that made our existence as Yidden possible. Yeshiva bochurim are as duped as the girls. They look for the seminary on the girls’ resumes like the girls look for the multiple yeshivos for the boys that are marketed as “career learners”. The volume of sheker and smoke here is astronomical.
pure gezel for the benefit of the Hareidi community in Israel. MO seminaries like Shalavim and MMY cost in the mid 20k’s and provide real Torah learning without the brainwashing.
The solution – Move out of town where there is still a semblance of normalcy!
Tuitions, Seminary, pesach programs, mortgages, summer camps, brand name everything, meatboards and simcha extravagance, overloaded kiddushes. Wow I can see we really gave up gashmiyus compared to the goyim we look down on
What about an optional 13th-grade program within Bais Yaakov schools? It may not be popular, flashy, or glamorous, but practicality rarely is. No one wants to be the outlier choosing the option that doesn’t come with a built-in “wow” factor. Yet real change tends to happen gradually — when enough people recognize there are viable alternatives and those alternatives begin to gain legitimacy.
In many ways, we created this situation ourselves. It’s troubling that some mechanchim and mechanchos continue to promote seminary as a near default, knowing that for most frum families it is an expensive “extra” — often at the expense of more pressing financial responsibilities (ironically at times to their OWN institutions). If we’re serious about addressing the local tuition crisis, imagine the impact even one year of widespread participation in a local 13th-grade option could make.
And then there’s the dynamic where a small number of girls receive full scholarships, attend seminary, return home enthusiastic, and — understandably — share glowing reviews. But their experience is not financially representative of the majority who must shoulder the full cost. When something begins to feel “necessary” because of social momentum rather than true need, we should pause and reassess.
There’s something unsettling about parnassah being sustained in a way that feels wrapped in smoke and presented as altruism (being the parnassah of the seminaries). We owe it to our families, our daughters, communities, and klal yisroel to have an honest conversation about sustainable, responsible choices.
I’m pretty sure this will fall on dead ears (or blind eyes?), but I couldn’t keep quiet anymore. Why is it that when people are looking for cost-cutting measures, girls’ chinuch is one of the first items on the chopping block? All these oh so wise commenters, pontificating about the uselessness of seminary- these girls are the the future wives and mothers of Klal Yisroel. They are the backbone of our nation. It’s been some time since I went to seminary, but it shaped the rest of my life and has influenced every subsequent day. I would never have had the zechus to make my home in E”Y had I not had the privilege of learning here. I understand that’s a scary thought for many parents- but your daughters deserve the chance to learn who they are and who they can be. I don’t even know why I’m writing this, honestly- the loudmouths who clearly have no value for Jewish women other than their cooking abilities won’t change their views. And those who don’t appreciate what being in Eretz Yisroel can do for a person will continue their lives, never wondering if they could be more than what they are.
But to any girl that might read this, who feels devalued and like the butt of the joke- keep your head up. Your ruchniyus and your learning and your growth matters. Klal Yisroel needs women who are committed, spiritually focused, knowledgeable in halacha l’maaseh, deeply familiar with Sifrei Tanach and mussar- in whatever form that takes for you, don’t let anyone make you think that you can’t be such a woman.
Klal Yisroel does not need women knowledgeable in Halacha lemaysa they can ask their husband or Google
@DrYidd:
Actually, those provide adulterated (by Zionist idolatry) – not real – “Torah learning”, and they also do brainwash. In their case, the brainwashing is for “Religious Zionism”.
It’s worth pointing out the Brisker Rav’s published remarks that “Religious Zionist” education is a “sea of heresy mixed in with a drop of Torah”.
The whole society is upside down.