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Whenever a yid is mentioned in a goyish newspaper you will most probably see these terms.
He/She is/was an Ultra Orthodox jew which is to be understood as
Way to religious why don’t you people get with the times
They lived in an ultra orthodox enclave which they mean to say
a self imposed ghetto to separate themselves from the gentiles who they deem inferior
Am i exaggerating what they are implying?
They spurn the fact that we spurn their world. Being as we think they are wrong, it follows to say that they think that we are wrong. Disagreement tend to go both ways.
Btw you would have gotten more hits if you would have titled the thread “Bias in the secular media”, or something like that. The title is pretty vague.
Actually, you’re being too kind. The term Ultra-Orthodox is hardly used. It’s generally replaced by Hasidic, which has a more obscure “ring” to it and implies a blind follower with no mind of his own. And in case you didn’t know one doesn’t have to be Chasidish to qualify – wearing a “black hat” is good enough.
At least that’s my take on it…
Whenever a yid is mentioned in the goyish newspapers….
it’s not only the goyish papers
This is an issue that has bothered me for a while. The terms ‘strictly’ or ‘ultra’, when prefacing the word orthodox, is misleading at best and offensive at worst. For several reasons. Firstly, because the term ultra denotes a negative extreme. The only other uses of the word when referring to people is for the most violent of football hooligans. So when describing what is simply a religious group, from a secular standpoint is offensive. This is because it is not simply a descriptive term, but it indicates a behaviour that is extreme, not just when compared to the so-called Jewish norm, but when compared to what an irreligious person would call ‘normal human behaviour’. Calling an entire group ultras indicates that they behave in an abnormally extreme manner. And even if you don’t accept this point, even saying that we are extreme when compared with ‘other jews’ is implying that there is normal Judaism and extreme Judaism, as opposed to there simply being different viewpoints. The fact that this term is still used widely in the secular media is ridiculous and offensive.
The goyish media was actually not bad when it came to the Sassoon tragedy. Look at edited article. You can feel the venom dripping.
yybc, did u read the ny times about it?
No. What did they say?
Just read it (the one about the fire and the one about hot plates.) Didn’t seem so bad. I would attach a link to the non religious Jewish one, but I don’t think I’ll get away with that.
YYBC: Why would you mention that?
Mods, I move that the Mesirah blog be stricken from this (and all future) records in the CR.
maskim
Ny times was left in, but mine was edited? There’s no issur saying lashon hara about them. Their self stated purpose is to rake up the dirt on the frum community to try to prevent people from joining aka: baalei teshuva, and to try to bring us down. I think they can and should be denounced for being the hatemongers that they are.
edited
Most of the anti-frum media I see popping up on my newsfeed on Facebook is not being posted from secular yidden or goyim. It’s being posted by frum yidden. Many frum yidden buy into alot of the anti-frum/charedi bias. At least this is what I am seeing.
What do you call frum?
What am I supposed to call frum?
Someone who believes in the sanctity of Torah and mitzvos over anything else, who tries to fulfill its dictums, and who believes in the worthiness of our gedolim.
YYBC – I disagree with your definition of frum.
Frum is simply “Someone who believes in HKBH and the 13 Ikkrim, and tries to fulfill the dictum of Torah”.
I am not sure what you mean by ‘believes in the sanctity of Torah & Mitzvos over anything else”. And ‘believing in the worthiness of our gedolim’ is not a prerequisite to being Frum at all. At best, it is simply something a Yid must do (equal to shaking lulav and eating Matzah, which doesn’t come under a separate category in the Frum Definition), at worst totally unnecessary.
I am a baal teshuva who left the conservative movement. I still have a ways to go. Yiddushkeit is one of the most difficult yet amazing paths to take. I do the best I can to believe as you say. But its really hard when every other thing I see and hear is all negative. I’m trying so hard to push past all the negative things about the frum/charedi world that I’m constantly bombarded with. I’m probably nowhere near where a lot of people on this thread are but I try, I really do. Most of the people I’m close with and tend to gravitate to are Yeshivish or Chasidishe. I went to the anti-draft prayer rally last year even though I didn’t fully understand. I was so annoyed at all the ant-charedi posts on my newsfeed I deactivated my facebook account for a little over a week.
Also, what does it mean to be “charedi” or follow “charedi hashkafa” and why?
szb1 – I have seen “Charedi” defined as “a member of any of various Orthodox Jewish sects characterized by strict adherence to the traditional form of Jewish law and rejection of modern secular culture”. I think that description is fairly accurate. I’m not sure about the ‘traditional form’ part; I would sooner say ‘strict adherence to Jewish Law’.
I’m not sure what you mean by why in your post. If you explain your question, I’m sure the posters here will try their best to answer you.
BTW – Kudos to you for your religious advancement. Kol Hakavod! I very much respect people like you who can pick themselves up from whatever state they find themselves in and strive to become better people, and to develop themselves spiritually. I wish I could be as strong as you.
“FRUM”
U – In the middle
Anything on the right is FR – Fanatic/Radical
Anything on the left is M – Modern
Yekke2: you’re not the first to define frum like that. The tziddukim already did thousands of years ago. In more modern times, that description was taken up by the Christians. Just believe and you’ll be fine. And don’t worry about those crazy rabbis. They’re still living in the dark Ashes, and don’t know that things have changed. Just believe in god, and love everyone, and j—s will save your soul.
yekke2:
Fantastic!
YYBC – Hold your horses, I didn’t say anything of the sort. I did not justify not listening to Gedolim at all. I was quite careful with what I wrote, because I know there are people in the CR who do like to see things unwritten.
I wrote that I wouldn’t put it into the definition of a Frum person. Like you didn’t say Someone who believes in the sanctity of Torah and mitzvos over anything else, who tries to fulfill its dictums, and who shakes Lulav on Sukkos and who eats Matzah on Pesach. Because these things are not anything more than “fulfilling its dictums”, as you put it. The same is with respect for Gedolim. That is part of fulfilling its dictums, not a category on its own. If you disagree with me, feel free to explain why, and feel free to be as refreshingly sarcastic as you were on your last post. I really enjoyed it. (And, btw, it should be a capital J)
And, for clarification, I was referring to what I understood from your post – “worthiness of our gedolim” seems to refer to the modern day Gedolim, not to the Tannaim. People of our generation do not command respect unless proven so. (There is a famous story with the Brisker Rav on that point) That was what I meant by ‘unnecessary’. C”V to talk like that about the Helige Tannaim.
I know the literal meaning as “one who fears or more like trembles before hashem”
But what does that really mean other than from what appears to the outside looking in as just a bunch of chumrahs, conformity and wearing a black hat or shtreimel?
Also, why do you follow “chareidi hashkafa” over I guess “modern orthodox” or “dati leumi” or “Chabad” etc… all say that they are following halacha…
Just curious to hear different answers.
Yiftach bedoro kemoshe bedoro.
szb1 – Conformity isn’t just doing what others do, it is being a part of something. Yiddishkeit is about expressing individuality as part of a whole. Each person is a piece that makes up a grand puzzle.
“A bunch of Chumras” is not what makes you Frum. However, each person has their own level of intensity in their religious observation, and accordingly keep Halacha to that degree.
Those who don’t keep Halacha properly cannot call themselves Frum. This excludes certain parts of Dati Leumi and certain sects of Modern Orthodox. Among those, however, who do keep Halacha properly, you will find very many different levels of stringency.
Many many aspects of Jewish Law are open to fierce debate among both the earlier and more contemporary Poskim. In everything, there are those who are more lenient and those who are more strict. For those who feel that Torah is a burden (?? ?????? ????), fishing around for the best “kullahs” (leniencies) is ideal for them. Amongst those who appreciate the opportunity of being a Frum Jew, you will find different levels as well; each person will Pasken like his Rav did. ??? ?? ?? dictates that each person has one Rabbi who he will follow, which sometimes will mean being lenient where others are strict, and sometimes the other way round.
The Hashkafah you follow is generally subject to Mesorah, on the whole. After the subject of Halachah has been fixed, there is a separate issue of Hashkafah (- ideological viewpoint on philosophical issues relating to Life, the Universe and Everything). That is a matter of finding the correct Torah sources for the various different controversies and being able to apply them to Modern day scenarios – something which we need our Gedolim for.
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