Earthquake + Hurricane during One Week in New York

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  • #598942

    Abe Cohen
    Participant

    I don’t believe any of us have ever before experianced either a major hurricane or an earthquake in New York, in our lifetimes. Yet here were are, days apart, experiancing both with a hurricane approaching with a direct hit on NYC for the first time in nearly 200 years just days after the earthquake.

    There is a message here. What is Hashem telling us?

    #802725

    ronrsr
    Member

    Pure coincidence.

    #802726

    Sam2
    Participant

    Pure coincidence doesn’t exist. Both the earthquake and the hurricane had some purpose. Whether that purpose was to continue the natural order of things, teach one individual somewhere a lesson, or do something for all of K’lal Yisroel we will never know. It happens for a reason. Many times we just have no way of finding out for sure what that reason is.

    #802727

    kako
    Member

    There is no such a thing as coincidence!

    #802728

    amazingirl97
    Participant

    ronrsr, there is no such thing as coincidence. obviously hashem is giving us a message that we had better do teshuvah. elul is almost here!

    #802729

    Abe Cohen
    Participant

    Ron: There is no such thing as coincidence.

    #802730

    LBK
    Member

    The first hurricane in NY in 200 years? What about Hurricane Gloria? I belive I was in 6th grade, and I remember yeshiva closing for it.

    #802731

    therealmgama
    Member

    sorry, ronrsr, to call this a coincidence is pure apikorsus

    #802732

    mewho
    Member

    this is happening because eating ice cream is not tznius

    #802733

    ronrsr
    Member

    Lt me clarify: the forces that are causing these phenomenon were set in force by the Creator of the Univesrse when he created the world. The fact that these two Natural events happen at the same week in the same place is neither rare or terribly surprisimg.

    #802734

    ronrsr
    Member

    First time I’ve been called an apikorus here. It’s my lucky day. Is it just a coincidence that it happened the day before a hurricane?

    I do agree with Sam who is about to post something significant.

    #802735

    Sam2
    Participant

    I honestly feel like the recent outpouring of “what is this trying to tell us” is both short-sighted and egocentric. There are natural disasters all over the world all year round, where thousands die and there are Jews there affected too. Saying that these (incredibly minor by comparison) natural disasters are to teach us a lesson is discounting the pain that is caused elsewhere and what those much bigger disasters are telling us.

    The proper question to ask is “What can we learn from this?” Because even if this disaster is not necessarily directed at us (or any individual), there is something that every individual can take away from it.

    #802736

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    sorry, ronrsr, to call this a coincidence is pure apikorsus

    Indeed to call anything coincidence is apikorsus.

    First time I’ve been called an apikorus here.

    Hmmmmm.

    #802737

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    I honestly feel like the recent outpouring of “what is this trying to tell us” is both short-sighted and egocentric.

    It is indeed egocentric, and it is just as correct. Chazal say the world was created for klal yisroel to learn and keep the torah. Everything that happens in the world is for the purpose. Indeed it is egocentric.

    The gemara ?”? ? says that ????? ??? the goyim are going to come to Hashem and claim that all the things they built and did were all so we could learn torah. Hashem will call them fools. I have heard: Fools, not liars. They would not be able to brazenly lie to Hashem then. They are actually correct, it was so we would learn, but that was not their intent so they do not get schar.

    #802738

    Sam2
    Participant

    Popa, you clearly didn’t read my entire post. I said that focusing on this disaster as opposed to all the others that occur worldwide throughout the year was a New York-specific egocentricity. I’m sorry if I wasn’t clear enough on that. I agreed that it is happening for a reason and that regardless of the actual reason there is always something every individual can learn from it. I was just disputing the point that this disaster more than any other is meant to teach all of us something.

    #802739

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    I see.

    #802740

    Hacham
    Member

    Sam2: Someone living in New York would be correct in focusing more on a crisis happening in New York than on a crisis happening in Louisiana.

    #802741

    beach boy
    Participant

    you kinda gotta wonder why it was davka in new york (think of the new law that just got passed)

    #802743

    kylbdnr
    Member

    I’m out of the US and the news here isn’t focusing on the weathert in NY. Can you keep me updated.

    #802744

    mik5
    Participant

    Just read that there was another earthquake in Albany this Shabbos. Thanks for passing toeiva marriage, Governor Cuomo!

    #802745

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    sorry, ronrsr, to call this a coincidence is pure apikorsus

    Methinks someone doesn’t know the definition of “pure apikorsus.” Even if he’s wrong, being wrong != apikorsus.

    The Wolf

    #802746

    WIY
    Member

    The truth is that nobody really knows why anything happens other than what we are told in Tanach and the Talmud as well as Zohar and sifre Kabbalah.

    That being said it is definitely a fact that less Torah was learned the last few months due to Bein Hazmanim. Additionally there have been plenty of bored teens in the mountains getting themselves into all kinds of trouble. We don’t need Rabannim to tell us what’s wrong. Anyone with a modicum of common sense and open eyes can see we are sinking fast. We all have to take responsibility and improve. Hashem put us here for a reason.

    #802747

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    sorry, ronrsr, to call this a coincidence is pure apikorsus

    Methinks someone doesn’t know the definition of “pure apikorsus.” Even if he’s wrong, being wrong != apikorsus.

    I was thinking about this.

    I’m wondering whether thinking apikorsus makes one an apikores. Just because you mistakenly think one wrong thing, are you an apikores? (That was my “Hmmmmm”)

    #802748

    Harotzehbilumshmo
    Participant

    ronrsr: Please see famous Ramban at the end of parshas Bo (and in his piyrush on Iyov, spoken about in detail in sifrei chofetz chaim as well, and many others) where he clearly puts forth his opinion with regard to teva, there is no teva. Hashem did not give over the world to nature, he continues to directly control each and every thing that goes on in the world each and every second. Chazal teach us that one does not stub his toe without a direct command from hashen, nor does a blade of grass grow.

    As such, there is no such thing as coincidence!

    #802749

    ronrsr
    Member

    please don’t take the title back now that I’ve earned it the old-fashioned way. I’ve been trying for two years.

    The only thing better would be to have 600kilobear say, “Shaygetz, Aroys!”

    #802750

    ronrsr
    Member

    please let me correct my words — what I really meant to say was that the events were independent events, no coincidences. The world was set in motion by HKBH with a complete set of physical laws. There’s a big earthquake in NY every century or so, there’s a big hurricane every decade or so. The universe seems to be exactly in order, as He planned it. The fact that that the two came in such proximity is coincidence.

    #802751

    charliehall
    Member

    While I of course agree that there are no coincidences, it should be noted that the earthquake felt in New York was actually centered in Virginia, where miraculously a nuclear power plant very close to the center of the earthquake appears to have suffered no damage. And the hurricane is currently leaving destruction in North Carolina and Virgnia and will do so in Maryland, Delaware, and New Jersey before its center gets to New York. These are not local diasters.

    As far as what specific message we are to take from it, of course it is to look at ourselves to see where we need to do tshuvah. Attributing specific sins to specific disasters, however, requires a navi or at least someone with ruach hakodesh. And doing so invites ridicule from people who don’t share our values; for example, the founder of dailykos.com tweeted that the earthquake struck Virginia because that state refuses to consider legalizing same sex marriage.

    Best now to pray that the hurricane’s damage is minimal.

    #802752

    charliehall
    Member

    FWIW the only hurricanes in historical times to directly hit NYC were in 1821 and 1893. The 1938 hurricane that hit Long Island and New England that killed 700 people also caused a lot of damage in NYC.

    #802753

    Tomche
    Member

    Our Gedolim, today, have ruach hakodesh. They can tell us why the earthquake and hurricane happened, and what we must do.

    #802754

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Our Gedolim, today, have ruach hakodesh.

    Hmmmm. Mine don’t usually profess to have ruach hakodesh. And I suppose I really have no way of knowing.

    And besides, they can only tell us through ruach hakodesh if Hashem decides to let them. So that may not happen.

    #802755

    Sam2
    Participant

    Tomche: People with different levels of Ruach Hakodesh are not Nevi’im. They can tell us what they think (and their opinions are very, very strong) we should take from this. But no one (maybe not no one, but almost no one) nowadays can give a reason for any of this with any certainty.

    #802756

    Tomche
    Member

    popa- No one that has it will profess so. If one professes so, it’s a good bet he doesn’t have it.

    Sam- I didn’t say they are Nevi’im. Ruach HaKodesh is a different level than nevius. But R”H exists in every generation.

    #802757

    welldressed007
    Participant

    Rosh Choidesh Elul, wake up yidden.

    #802758

    therealmgama
    Member

    Wow! I’m amazed how everyone got so hung up on the few little words I posted. I was actually very careful about the wording (making sure not to call ronsr an apikorus, rather saying that the concept of calling something a coincidence is apikorsus). I actually once learned that there is no true apikorus today. People only pretend to be…. (?????? ????)

    “There’s a big earthquake in NY every century or so, there’s a big hurricane every decade or so.”

    This is a little reminiscent of ??? ????? where they made the ????? that the sky falls down every 1656 years, and they therefore must build a pillar to support it…!! True, Hashem has everything planned out since “day 1” and for that reason alone – NOTHING IS A COINCIDENCE – not the events themselves, not the times they happen, and not the sequence in which they happen. And yes, there’s a message in every event, but none of us can profess to know what exactly it is. Therefore, we should each introspect and take our own personal lessons. ??????!

    #802759

    charliehall
    Member

    “Mine don’t usually profess to have ruach hakodesh.”

    Nor mine. They just know an awful lot more Torah than me.

    #802760

    rt
    Participant

    it would be worthwhile to see Halekach v’halibuv (Rav

    Avrohom Schorr) on this week’s parasha-that deals with katrina

    #802761

    Health
    Participant

    Tomche -“They can tell us why the earthquake and hurricane happened, and what we must do.”

    I’ll tell you why these things happen and I don’t have Ruach Hakodesh. It’s because we don’t keep the Mitzvos and everytime something happens, we find an excuse to blame s/o else instead of looking inwards. People here blamed the Toeiva marriage – if this is a reason, it’s a small reason because most Frum jews were against this. So again stop the denial and look at yourself what You can do to improve. And if s/o is such a Baal Gaivah and thinks that he/she is perfect, that’s the first place to start -your Gaivah!

    #802762

    WIY
    Member

    Health

    Thank you for saying it as it is.

    #802763

    observanteen
    Member

    It says (not sure where) that Hashem makes thunder and lightening so that our hearts should wake up to teshuva.

    It’s impossible to know precisely what Hashem’s trying to say. But as Rabbi Wallerstein said after the tragedy with Leiby a”h, “There’s no way I should know what Hashem wants from you. YOU should know that. You should know what’s most difficult for you and what YOU are supposed to work on.” Be it the internet, listening to secular music, movies, tv, loshon hara, tznius…the list is endless!

    #802764

    I really agree with what Joseph613 wrote as his comment to the YWN news :

    #802765

    ronrsr
    Member

    My call on these two disasters is that they are indications of Hashem’s great mercy. 100 years ago, either of these disasters would have killed hundreds or thousands of people, yet only a handful have been hurt, and a few have died in the hurricane.

    It’s a bit like vaccines. Influenza and Pneumonia still exist, yet through the mercy of our Creator, many fewer suffer and die from them.

    #802766

    Tomche
    Member

    There is most certainly a message from Hashem in all this.

    #802767

    shlishi
    Member

    We got a lot of warnings to do teshuva this summer. I’m not sure how much more blatant Hashem could be.

    #802768

    Health
    Participant

    “Cuomo is evil.”

    Maybe he is, but don’t fool yourself that this is the only reason that these events are happenning. E/o has to look at themselves.

    What bothers me about comments like Joes’, is that people tend to blame others and forget to look inwards, like I posted above.

    #802769

    squeak
    Participant

    Ronrsr, are you saying that you believe G-d is the “Great Clockmaker”? That is how your posts sound. I hope not, because if so, then you have indeed rightly earned that title. Such a belief conflicts with the first Ani Maamin.

    #802770

    Tomche
    Member

    The message is for us all.

    #802771

    ronrsr
    Member

    An ancient tree next door just split and fell in our yard, missing our house by just a few feet. No one is hurt, no power lines down, no real harm done. The warning against apikorsus is swift!

    As further punishment, the town will be out there with chainsaws carving up the tree for hours. Nothing aids a good night’s sleep like the sound ofnchainsaws.

    #802772

    Chein
    Member

    Is this that neighbors tree that you warned him about 2 years ago?

    #802773

    sm29
    Member

    These things happening right before Elul is deffinately a wake up message. we should each look in ourself and see what we need to do,.

    #802774

    ronrsr
    Member

    Chein, that is not the tree I warned him was listing Two years ago.

    For rthr other trree, I offered him the services of my forester when the forester was here. We and our neighbors have a pool about whwn that tree will cease to stand on is own, too.

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