Evolution: Total Rubbish Because….

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  • #588629

    noitallmr
    Participant

    K. We all know that this is one of the most ridiculous theories ever. Lets hear all you reasons why it’s rubbish…

    For one, just like a table didn’t come by itself and everyone will agree it’s done by a skilled carpenter all the more so our phenomenal world…

    #624828

    lesschumras
    Participant

    I’d like to hear your explenation of fossils

    #624829

    Joseph
    Participant

    noitallmr – The reason you gave is reason enough!

    Evolution, by its very definition, explicitly denies the existence of G-d.

    #624830

    … because it’s NOT.

    #624831

    yoshi
    Member

    There is no clear cut proof of anything in this world. That is why there will forever be a clash between those who only believe in God, and those who only believe in evolution. Belief. That’s where it all lies. Because there are many missing links in evolution, and because God doesn’t physically “show” Himself to the world, things will never be certain to people, perhaps until one dies. God gave us this big world to forever explore and learn from. Why should one limit their minds only to what they see in front of them. I’ve always believed that God, and evolution, can coexist. I’ve been bashed at times, but stuck to my “beliefs” none the less. Then I went to Israel, and there I discovered many Chashuv Rabbaim who agreed and shared with my philosophies of the world.

    #624832

    Joseph
    Participant

    sheesh, GMAB. You didn’t say what you seemed to say, did you?

    Say you don’t deny G-d too…

    #624833

    oomis
    Participant

    I don’t think that evolutionary theory denies the existence of G-d. We are not sure of the exact time frame of the creation of the world. Evolution actually makes a lot of sense. Life started in the sea, and the sea animals crawled out on land, and so on. Who is to say that what we read in Parshas Breishis is not exactly describing that? We believe the world was created in six days? By what time passage? The sun was not even set in the sky until day four. Who knows how mcuh time passed before that day? Even if we believe each day was a 24 hour period of time, do we really think that Hashem who created everything, could not create it in a speeded-up evolutionary way? I don’t really see the contradiction.

    #624834

    mw13
    Participant

    one of the obvious flaws of evolution is that it offers no explanation for how life began, nor does any other “scientific” theory, except emunah in Hashem. gmab, maybe you should try this sometime.

    #624835

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    Evolution, by its very definition, explicitly denies the existence of G-d.

    No it doesn’t. Why can’t one maintain that evolution was guided by God? (NB: This has nothing to do with Torah sources. Joseph maintained that if Evolution is true, then God must not exist. That is not necessarily so, from a strictly logical POV.)

    one of the obvious flaws of evolution is that it offers no explanation for how life began

    That’s the field of abiogenesis, not evolution. Evolution deals with speciation, not the origin of life. The fact that evolution does not address the origin of life no more causes it’s invalidation than the fact that the Theory of Gravity doesn’t explain the origin of life.

    The Wolf

    #624836

    sammyjoe
    Member

    mw13: wow u r such a scientist 🙂 love sammyjoe

    #624837

    sammyjoe
    Member

    mw13: dont take anything personaly i cant help myself. i just enjoy raizting on the oilum

    #624838

    Bogen
    Participant

    Evolution is just a theory, not a fact. (And a false theory, at that.)

    Past evidence for evolution has been overturned. In the past, major scientific revolutions have overturned theories that were at the time considered factual.

    In the past there have been scientific hoaxes regarding evolution, such as the Piltdown Man forgery.

    Pieces of “evidence” for evolution such as Ernst Haeckel’s 19th-century embryo drawings, were not merely “scientific errors” but frauds; Biology textbooks have continued to reproduce such “evidence” long after it had been debunked.

    Evolution is a pseudo-religion (evolution is based on faith, supporters of evolution revere Charles Darwin as a prophet, and supporters of evolution dogmatically reject alternative suggestions out-of-hand.)

    Evolution is “unfalsifiable” (there is no tests that could be made that would demonstrate that the statement is false). Any “fact” can be “fitted” into the evolutionary framework. Past events of speciation are not observable and repeatable, and therefore evolution is not falsifiable. In 1976, Popper himself said that “Darwinism is not a testable scientific theory but a metaphysical research programme”.

    #624839

    zalmy
    Member

    i suggest that those of you (joseph, etc.) who seem to insist that evolution is somehow “assur” (which, as wolfish points out above generally indicates a fundamental misunderstanding of the theory of evolution) should take a look at the Ramban at the beginning of parshas bereishis. there, the ramban says that the word ‘bara’ (as in “bereshis bara…” refers to a creation of ‘yesh me’ayin’ (‘something from nothing’), and he says that this term is used only by the creation of ‘shamayim’ and ‘aretz’. the ramban goes on to say that hashem essentially created these two formless elements of ‘shamayim’ and ‘aretz’, and in subsequent days these two elements were formed and molded into other creations (but these later creations were not ‘yesh me’ayin’ as shamayim and aretz were).

    while i acknowledge in advance there may be questions on this ramban, i suggest that joseph and others here take the time to study this ramban before ranting that evolution is ‘assur’ and ‘krum’.

    #624840

    r shimon schwab said that to those who don’t have enough emunah to believe that the world was created without evolution it is not a stira to yiddishkeit to believe in it.

    #624841

    yoshi
    Member

    mw13 “one of the obvious flaws of evolution is that it offers no explanation for how life began,”

    That is partially true, but there are several theories as to how it all began. There are four of which most scientists agree on, one of which all of us have heard of, “The big bang.”

    Seeing is not believing. Having a visual makes something a fact. That is why we “believe” in God’s Existence. And that is also why some, “believe,” in the theory of evolution. We never see God, but some have experienced His Supernatural Phenomenon’s. We have no clear cut proof of how the world began, but science has shown us fossils.

    Both the existence of God, and evolution have at least one thing in common. That from nothing, came something.

    #624842

    Bogen
    Participant

    And of course, the Gedolim both in Eretz Yisroel and America have assured a Jew’s (Mr. Slifkin) books that tried to peddle evolution as being compatible with the Torah.

    The Gedolim have made clear that evolution is kefira and Keneged HaTorah HaKedosha.

    #624843

    Feif Un
    Participant

    The theory behind evolution can happen – the idea that things adapt to their surroundings. Who says that animals today are exactly as they were 5,000 years ago? They might have changed.

    However, to say that people came from monkeys or apes is wrong. The Torah says that Hashem created man, and that man was able to speak, reason, etc.

    The theory that living things evolved over billions of years is also wrong, as we know the world isn’t even close to that old.

    Yes, there are fossils. Do you know why? The Medrash says that whenever Hashem does something miraculous, He does something to make it possible to not believe in it. For example, it says that before Kriyas Yam Suf, the wind blew hard all night. That’s so people who didn’t want to believe in the miracle could claim the wind caused it.

    In this case, the fossils are there so that a person could believe Hashem didn’t create the world.

    GMAB: congrats. You were fooled by Hashem Himself!

    #624844

    Bogen
    Participant

    And of course, the Gedolim both in Eretz Yisroel and America have assured a Jew’s books that tried to peddle evolution as being compatible with the Torah.

    The Gedolim have made clear that evolution is kefira and Keneged HaTorah HaKedosha.

    #624845

    squeak
    Participant

    For anyone who is interested in this kind of stuff, the “center of science” of Europe is currently trying to replicate the Big Bang. They built a Large Hadron Collider (LHC) for this purpose, and it was just started up this October. It was a big deal in the science community. Go ahead and search for LHC if you care about this. I’m satisfied with “Beraishis Borah….”

    #624846

    000646
    Participant

    Bogen,

    the fact there have been hoaxes and wrong proofs in no way disproves the proofs that we do have (it is worth noting that the hoaxes you mentioned were uncoverd by the same scientists who’s science you refuse to trust.)

    The theory of evolution IS falsifiable as i said before one mammal skull found in rocks that formed before advanced animals should have evolved would disprove evolution and this has not happend since fossils started being discoverd.

    Feif Un,

    as evolution does not necesseraly contradict the torah or there being a creator, why would you assume that hashem fooled gmab anymore the you would assume he fools us regarding the world being round? Isnt more logical to just say it happend?

    #624847

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    Oy, where to start. Bogen, your post is full of fallacies:

    Let’s start at the top:

    Evolution is just a theory, not a fact. (And a false theory, at that.)

    This assertion shows that you don’t understand how the term “theory” is applied to science. Gravity, for example, is also a “theory.” Please understand what a theory is (in terms of science) before throwing this out.

    Past evidence for evolution has been overturned. In the past, major scientific revolutions have overturned theories that were at the time considered factual.

    This statement is absolutely correct. But so what? In many other areas of science, theories that were later proven wrong were thrown out, but that doesn’t invalidate the latest findings. For example, originally before germ theory was developed, there were other theories to explain the spread of some diseases. The fact that earlier theories were overturned does not invalidate germ theory. Likewise, the fact that earlier evolutionary theories were overturned does not mean that the latest ones are invalid.

    In the past there have been scientific hoaxes regarding evolution, such as the Piltdown Man forgery.

    Again, this statement is absolutely correct. And again, so what? There has been fraud in just about every scientific field at one time or another. That does not necessarily mean that all scientific theories are false.

    Pieces of “evidence” for evolution such as Ernst Haeckel’s 19th-century embryo drawings, were not merely “scientific errors” but frauds; Biology textbooks have continued to reproduce such “evidence” long after it had been debunked.

    That’s correct, but no respectable biology book does so today. Again, the same point I made earlier applies.

    Evolution is a pseudo-religion (evolution is based on faith, supporters of evolution revere Charles Darwin as a prophet, and supporters of evolution dogmatically reject alternative suggestions out-of-hand.)

    This is a baseless claim. No one revers Darwin as a “prophet.” In addition, the very idea of scientific theory is that no idea can be rejected “out of hand.”

    Evolution is “unfalsifiable” (there is no tests that could be made that would demonstrate that the statement is false). Any “fact” can be “fitted” into the evolutionary framework. Past events of speciation are not observable and repeatable, and therefore evolution is not falsifiable. In 1976, Popper himself said that “Darwinism is not a testable scientific theory but a metaphysical research programme”.

    This is just plain false. You can do a simple Google search and find examples where evolution is claimed to have been observed and experimented with. I’m not familiar with the Popper quote you brought, but I’m confident that the vast majority of the scientific community does not agree with it.

    Mind you, I haven’t brought one scintilla of evidence that evolution is true. That’s not my goal here. My goal is simply to cut down false arguments.

    The Wolf

    #624848

    feivel
    Participant

    “is currently trying to replicate the Big Bang”

    i sure hope not!

    what they are trying to do however is look into conditions that probably existed very shortly AFTER the big bang.

    also to find the Higgs Boson, an extremely important particle (and field) which is believed to exist but has never been “seen” it is also referred to as the “G-d particle” as it is presumed to give substance to all other existing particles.

    #624849

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    The Big Bang has nothing to do with abiogenesis. The Big Bang is a theory that explains the origin of the universe and the expansion of space/movement of galaxies. It has nothing to do with the origin of life on Earth.

    The Wolf

    #624850

    Feif Un
    Participant

    000646: Evolution theory states that living beings evolved over billions of years. The world isn’t that old. So yes, saying that people evolved from monkeys does contradict the Torah.

    #624851

    squeak
    Participant

    feivel, you sound like you just read the wikipedia article. correct me if I’m wrong, but you don’t really know much about this, right? Please don’t try to give me a lesson on this.

    #624852

    000646
    Participant

    Fief Un,

    The world being that old does not necesseraly contradict the torah you can get plenty of books on the subject by r scroeder, r aryeh kaplan and many others.

    #624853

    Joseph
    Participant

    Wolf: How do you accomplish the italics here?

    #624854

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    The world isn’t that old.

    False argument — and I’ll explain why.

    1. The fact that the universe is *only* 5769 years is not universally held. There are a number of sources that accept an older universe. But that’s really beside the point, because…

    2. I’m almost certain that if I were to ask you “suppose the universe was billions of years old. Could you then accept the possibility of evolution?” that your answer would still be no. So, the age of the universe is not really the issue here, is it?

    The Wolf

    #624855

    Feif Un
    Participant

    Wolf, do you believe human beings evolved from monkeys?

    The Torah says that Hashem created man on the same day he created monkeys. It also says he formed him from Earth.

    Evolution contradicts that.

    #624856

    Anonymous

    Sorry folks……this thread is being closed.

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