Rumor about Ivanka Trump Spurs conversation about Geirus

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  • #1298131

    Avi K
    Participant

    Joseph, the nullification of the “gerut”, if it took place (there is no actual record) of Borokowsky was based on the fact that it was a forced conversion (his “father-in-law” had threatened to reveal his shady activities to the authorities) . Moreover, he continued to conduct himself a gentile, eating pork and going to church.

    In any case, you are over on kabbalat LH (the newspaper reports), LH (no toelet) and MSH,at “least” of the talmidei chachamim you besmirched. You are also paskening without a license.

    Edited

    #1298137

    Joseph
    Participant

    The only lh/marry Reb Avi, is your untrue allegations against Reb Avraham Borokowsky, a true ger tzedek who from the time he became a ger in prewar Europe until the time he was niftar in Eretz Yisroel was a full shomer Torah u’Mitzvos who davened three times a day in shul, only ate mehadrin kosher food and fully kept every Shabbos.

    Edited

    #1298139

    mentsch1
    Participant

    AviK
    If this reference you keep mentioning is the infamous Langer case, then you could not be more wrong.
    In regards to the Langer case, every major rosh hayehiva of the time signed kol koreh’s denouncing Goren and going as far as stripping him of the ability to pasken. Even Rav Moshe put his name on these kol korehs which were published in major jewish papers the time.
    The autobiography’s of Rav Ovadiah and Rav Elyashiv have entire chapters dedicated to this halachic travesty

    #1298140

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Avi

    Many in the charedi communities do not accept the psak of Rav Goren in the langer case. rav Elyshiv was 100% against it

    #1298144

    Joseph
    Participant

    JTA, Jan 5, 1973
    RAV YOSEF CALLS GOREN DICTATOR

    Meanwhile new trouble has developed between Rabbi Goren and his colleague Sephardic Chief Rabbi Ovadia Yosef. In an emotional speech to Jerusalem’s Oriental community last night. Rabbi Yosef described Rabbi Goren as a “dictator,” implied that he twisted halacha (religious law) for his own purposes, and begged the Sephardic community to support him in his confrontation with the Ashkenazic Chief Rabbi.

    In a voice choked with tears. Rabbi Yosef said, “I live under a dictatorship. I am alone on the battlefield. I need your help to carry on. You do not know what is going on in the Chief Rabbinate. I am alone fighting every hour. I cannot sleep nights.” He alleged that Rabbi Goren imposed his will at Chief Rabbinate meetings by “banging his fist on the table and saying, ‘that is it.’”

    Rabbi Yosef made no direct reference to the Langer ruling. However, he said. “I am opposed to extremism but I believe halacha should be dispensed without publicity and without sensationalism. I am of the school of Belt Hillel but I cannot make halacha so plastic that it can fit into any mold. I cannot tell the crowd that everything is permissible, everything is forgiveable.

    #1298176

    mentsch1
    Participant

    ZD
    Just referencing Rav Elyashiv doesn’t do justice to the universal outrage. Even the secular public who pushed for the appeal of the Langer case was stunned by the hypocrisy of overturning the psak. Lets keep in mind that Rav Elyashiv was sitting on a Rabbanut bais din . It was Rabbanut affiliated Rabbunim that ruled on the case, and that said the case couldn’t be overturned. It was Goren that then convened a private bais din that hid behind secrecy that supposedly overturned the case on grounds that had ben rejected numerous times before by the Rabbanut BD. He literally ran for office of chief Rabbi on a platform of “vote for me, I will overturn the Langer case.

    #1298213

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    mench and ZD

    for some reason Avi is confused by this
    see here : http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/rabbi-shmuly#post-1225573

    #1298258

    Avi K
    Participant

    Joseph, et. al., so how come dayanim who claim to be followers of Rav Elaishiv are poselling conversions left and right. not to mention those here who do not even have “Yadin., Yadin” and maybe not any kind of semicha? You can’t have it both ways. In any case, I still would like to know what heter you gave yourselves to discuss the Kushner’s level ofo bservance in public. You have yet to answer this question. Stop stonewalling!

    Regarding Rav Ovadia, he and Rav Goren disagreed on just about everything. The Raavad said worse things about Rambam. Bet Shammai probably put out even more “Kol Koreh”s against Bet Hillel. Gedolim often disagree (and BTW, Rav Henkin and Rav Tzvi Yehuda Kook supported Rav Goren). That’s the way it goes.

    #1298272

    DaasYochid
    Participant

    This was no ordinary machlokes. The psak was so egregiously false that the gedolim passeled all of his psakim.

    #1298285

    Joseph
    Participant

    Is it also prohibited to discuss Henry Kissinger’s level of observance?

    Goren’s lax attitude towards geirus is amply documented. Three years before the Langer case, he converted Helen Seidman, a Christian woman “married” to a kohen and living on a secular kibbutz and the couple’s young daughter. In return, Seidman agreed to withdraw a suit to the Israeli Supreme Court demanding that the State recognize her Reform conversion. As was frequently asked at the time of the Langer case: If Seidman, who had consistently proclaimed her lack of intention to live a Torah life prior to her conversion by Goren, was a Jewess, why was Reb Avraham Borokovsky a goy? Goren converted dozens, if not hundreds, of people barely observant to not at all observant.

    #1298319

    mentsch1
    Participant

    Sorry Avi
    What happened with the langer case is that the top Rabbanut BD, what you can call the halachic supreme court, paskened and revisited the issue and paskened again that these people were mamzerim.
    There was no other avenue of appeal. But there was public pressure, and Goren saw an opportunity . He convened a secret BD that had no real authority since the matter had already been ruled on repeatedly. No one knew who the BD was for years (it was sealed under top secret military clearance) and Goren waved a magic wand and gave the secular public what they wanted, a chief rabbi who is willing to bend Halacha to accommodate the desires of the people.
    He had no halachic authority to do what he did. , but he was able to do it based on his position.

    #1298365

    Avi K
    Participant

    Joseph,

    1. Yes. It is prohibited. At the very best it is bittul zeman. Now answer the question and stop stonewalling. What toelet is there in discussing the Kushners’ deeds (besides the fact that none of us know all of the details). do you really think that one of us will be invited to their home for a Shabbat meal? Do you really think that one of us might be offered a shidduch with one of their children?

    2. You and your companions are missing my point regarding the Langer case. If you disagree with Rav Goren how do you dare to question the validity of Ivanka Trump’s conversion? Are you qualified to sit in judgement on your own? Are you even a dayan?

    #1298370

    DaasYochid
    Participant

    No, we’re not missing your point. You are inaptly comparing one case to another. (I don’t know about Ivanka’s geirus, but you can’t prove its validity by comparing it to a different case).

    #1298378

    DaasYochid
    Participant

    Oh, and do you see the irony of your position?

    To turn the tables on you:

    If you agree with Rav Goren how do you dare to defend the validity of Ivanka Trump’s conversion?

    BTW, there’s no issur of L”H on someone who is not בכלל עמיתך.

    #1298412

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    The Langer case involved Mamzerius which is one of the hardest things in the torah to defend , If not the hardest to a non or semi-religous population.

    Ivanka Trump doesnt involve Mamzerius

    Its one of those things I thankfully was not there at the time to have to make a decision. As stated in at least 2 cases above and others Ive heard about Sometimes there are outside pressures when it comes to Gerius,

    One that I heard of involved a woman in Germany who was married to a Cohen. She was a little mentally unstable and they had a baby and it died. She then decided the reason the baby died was because she wasnt jewish and then demanded to be converted to Judaism. She petitioned the German government to be converted to Judaism and they put pressure on the Rabbis of Germany to convert her. It was not a Shalia Id want to be asked. A mentally unstable person who lost a baby already married to a Cohen. Thankfully I wasnt asked

    #1298455

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    I looked up the Seidman case as I had not heard of it before

    It seems the woman had sued the government to have her reform conversion recognized and the Supreme Court was going to rule in her favor and the Labor government was going to pass a law accepting reform and conservative conversions. By doing this one conversion he stopped a much worse outcome. Unfortuantly sometimes you have to take bitter pills that can make you sick, in order to get better

    #1298499

    DaasYochid
    Participant

    The gedolim all held that it was an egregious perversion of halacha. Needless to say, they didn’t hold it was warranted.

    #1298504

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    What’s with the title of this thread? Neither the OP or subsequent posts are a general conversation. This has all been specific to Ivanka.

    To be general: the point that’s been made that questioning a ger might be lashon hara while not questioning an invalid ger has no consequences is totally absurd. The entire nation having a twisted and incorrect definition of Orthodoxy thanks to one high-profile person is much more destructive than the minute possibility that that person will find their way to the CR and be offended.

    It doesn’t have to be high-profile even. Even if there’s a fake ger in some small community, within that community they’re making a chillul hashem. And, they’re damaging the integrity of gerim, which nobody ever seems to care about other than real gerim.

    #1298511

    DaasYochid
    Participant

    And, they’re damaging the integrity of gerim, which nobody ever seems to care about other than real gerim.

    That is a terrific point.

    #1298516

    Avi K
    Participant

    Neville,

    1. Someone uses the Kushners for maasei rav he already has a twisted and incorrect definition of Orthodoxy. They, BTW, have never held themselves up to be role models.

    2. What about the chillul Hashem of constant public micro-examination of a couple’s observance or lack thereof and the obvious glee with which these blemish finders (only in others, of course) condemn them without even knowing all of the facts.? How does this make the Orthodox community appear? Moreover, if you want to find blemishes whose condemnation will score points with the non-Orthodox community then condemn the welfare cheats, slumlords. corrupt business people, etc. (BTW, financial crimes are a toeva – Devarim 25,13).

    3. How are they damaging the integrity of other gerim? Jared Kushner the born Jew is doing the same things. Besides, do you really think that there are no other gerim who backslide just as do born Jews (see SA YD 268:2 that we do not tell him all of the details of observance so this could very well happen and see seif 12 that if he does fall down so long as he had intention to keep everything at the time of the giur he is like any Jew who falls).

    #1298518

    nechamasara
    Participant

    I don’t think this conversation is fair to Yael (her Jewish name). She is an earnest and seems to be an honest person. If she was indeed born Jewish (which her mother sure looks like it might be true), the conversation should be over. If not, we should give her the benefit of the doubt, she is progressing, and raising two beautiful children that should not be harmed. When Mashiach finally reveals himself, he is able to declare who is a Jew by his spiritual power of smell. It is not fair for a Georess to be judged by bullet-proof stockings, sheitel or tichel, plus many other humrus. That she is Shomeres Shabbat, keeps kosher and the chagim is sufficient. After all, many a woman has been told, the only criteria in choosing a husband should be that “he is Shomer Shabbat”. And that leaves a lot to be desired for criteria. We Jews should leave the Kushners alone, and eliminate any suspicion of lashon hara, et al.

    #1298606

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    Avi:

    On #1 I fully agree. If secular media chooses to show them as role models, isn’t it our right to object?

    #2 Um so correcting the record when somebody else makes a chillul hashem is also a chillul hashem now? Face it, you know you’re grasping for straws when you pull out the absurd assertion that all Orthodox yidden are slum lords and frauds.

    #3 “Besides, do you really think that there are no other gerim who backslide just as do born Jews” No, hence why my post was written generally and did NOT reference Ivanka. You’re the one that brought her into it. Funny that.

    #1298615

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    “It is not fair for a Georess to be judged by bullet-proof stockings, sheitel or tichel, plus many other humrus.”

    The fact that a community exists that considers hilchos tznius to be all “humrus [sic]” is precisely the problem. It’s getting more attention now that someone from that community is in the Presidents family and administration.

    #1298628

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    Avi
    “Someone uses the Kushners for maasei rav he already has a twisted and incorrect definition of Orthodoxy.”

    Im not sure what you mean by that. I respect your opinion and often look to you for guidance, in your view can the Kushners be labeled Orthodox?

    nechamasara
    “seems to be an honest person”

    debatable, but not directly related to the subject at hand

    “That she is Shomeres Shabbat, keeps kosher”
    she isnt sadly, Please stop pretending she is

    #1298658

    Avi K
    Participant

    Nechamasara, who says hat Mashiach will do that? Rambam only says that he will fight Hashem’s wars, rebuild the Bet HaMikdash and wipe out Amalek. Chamim say (Eduyot 8:7) that Eliahu, who also will come, will not clear up those considered pasul or disqualify those considered kosher but only to make peace. Even Rabbi Yehoshua , who is the most machmir, only says that he will push away those who came close by force.

    Neville,
    1. The objection should be to the obsession with their religious observance. I do not think that the media considers them role models. Rather, this is part of their war against Trump (BTW, I find it interesting that none of them talk about JFK’s obstruction of justice in the Sherman Adams case).
    2. The chillul Hashem (if there was one – I seriously doubt that it bothers gentiles and non-observamt Jews) can be corrected by a limmud zechut. In any case, it is prohibited to rebuke someone publcily without meeting all of the conditions set forth by the Chafetz Chaim. In particular, the arm chair poskim do not know the details of why they ddi what they did. They are either woefully ignorant of the complexities of Halacha or simply enjoy cutting down others. You have also not answered my question regarding slumlords and people who have engaged in corrupt activiites. Therewas no thread, for example, about a certain Orthodox politician who was convicted of corrupt activities. This was a far greater chillul Hashem.
    3. Don’t be disingenous. This whole thread is titled “Rumor about Ivanka Trump Spurs conversation about Geirus”. I persobnally do not understand how the mods allowed it.

    #1298655

    R4nd0m3x
    Participant

    It’s one of those things I thankfully was not
    there at the time to have to make a decision.

    Are we to understand that had you been there, you would
    have been among those asked to make that decision? :p

    #1298872

    cherrybim
    Participant

    Rav Ovadiah Yosef, Rav Elyashiv, and many others of their stature, had halachic disagreements with other Poskim and Rabbanim.
    These Poskim still maintain their status in Klal Yisroel, as mature people know the disagreements are l’shem Shomayim .
    However, the peanut brain critics will continue to complain and spew hatred as did Korach and his ilk.

    #1298932

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    “as did Korach and his ilk.”

    Im confused, According to you isnt that ok?
    Moshe Rabbeinu and Korach had a machlokes . why are you spewing hatred about Korach?

    #1298934

    Joseph
    Participant

    Rav Ovadiah Yosef, Rav Elyashiv, and many others of their stature clearly stated that Goren’s position was *not* l’sheim shamayim..

    #1298958

    Avi K
    Participant

    Joseph, what about your position? How do you presume to possel Ivanka Trump’s conversion. Answer the question and stop stonewalling!

    #1298980

    Joseph
    Participant

    Avi, how do you posel Conservative and Open Orthodox conversions?

    #1298974

    cherrybim
    Participant

    Joseph, you can’t have it both ways. Rav Goren actually held like you.
    Rav Goren maintained that the geyrus for the principal in the Langer case could be revoked since he was not nizhar in halacha after the geyrus.
    As a result, since the principal was still a goy (as you also maintain in the Trump case); Rav Goren, therefore, held that there was no mamzeirus.
    I guess you, Rav Goren and other Poskim at the time employed similar logic in order to avoid mamzeirus in Yisroel.

    #1298951

    akuperma
    Participant

    If one holds that the “Modern Orthodox” are part of the Torah world (and when we start working on political alliances, we certainly do consider them, and the kosher food industry certainly counts on them, etc.), one can’t complain that their converts act like the rest of the “modern orthodox” community, and that community tends to have very “creative” interpretations of halacha (which allows them to eat kosher ingredients prepared on cold non-kosher utensils, participating in sports as long as one lets a non-Jew handle the money, carrying in a Karmelis, dressing in manners that frum Jews find objectionable, etc.). One doesn’t expect Ivanka Trump to be frumer than her family’s rabbi, and especially, one doesn’t expect her to be frumer than her husband.

    #1299116

    Joseph
    Participant

    cherrybim, Goren would be correct that a conversion that didn’t have the proper kabbalos ohl mitzvos is invalid. Where he went off the rails was that in that particular case the convert did have a proper kabbalos ohl mitzvos and remained a fully religious Jew from time of conversion though death, but Goren for political reasons falsely claimed otherwise. Rav Yosef Shalom Elyashiv, Chacham Ovadia Yosef and many others said exactly this.

    #1299369

    SarahLevine613
    Participant

    It took me a while to get to a post i liked — but this one i did — because while somewhat obnoxious — it is interesting. In part:

    “One can’t complain that their converts act like the rest of the “modern orthodox” community, and that community tends to have very “creative” interpretations of halacha (which allows them to eat kosher ingredients prepared on cold non-kosher utensils, participating in sports as long as one lets a non-Jew handle the money, carrying in a Karmelis, dressing in manners that frum Jews find objectionable, etc.). One doesn’t expect Ivanka Trump to be frumer than her family’s rabbi, and especially, one doesn’t expect her to be frumer than her husband.”

    First, I am modern orthodox (or at least some strain of that). I agree that it is clear that Modern Orthodox converts are going to be modern orthodox. Second, the halacha require fealty and allegiance to halacha — not necessarily 100% observance. GASP? Of course thats true. Is chalav yisroel required? Yoshon? Hair covering? Etc. Do i have to ask all of you? And you are right, are all modern orthodox gerim (even those many who went through “Frum” batei din — invalid. Uh….no. Third, I dont believe all of the interpretations above are “creative.” Cold utensils etc…. thats the halacha. Benyomo/aino ben yomo — halacha. Not sure who allows carrying in a karmelis without an eruv. I am not sure what the sports example is? Going to games on shabbos? Who paskened its ok? Sometimes — people get asked questions — how should i do this, if I am gonig to do this. Very different.

    #1299502

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    The pressures on a government official are not the same as on a Gadol.

    It is unlikely any sort of lobbying or protesting could change an opinion of Rav Elyashiv., However government employees where Rav Goren was a part of are differnt. One can lobby, protest , Call Daily , threaten to vote out and are threfore subject to pressures that Gedolim are not.

    #1299490

    Avi K
    Participant

    Joseph, I never posseled any gerut as I am not qualified. However, Conservative rabbanim are not rabbanim. OO is heading in that direction.

    Akuperma, you are motzi shem ra on Rav Lookstein. As for your other complaints, please cite sources including the circumstances in which they were said. More HSR. You must go to every MO Jew in the world and obtain forgiveness.

    Joseph, actually there was no record that Borokowsky actually converted nor was there a record of the couple having had a Jewish wedding (they were “married” in a church prior to the alleged conversion). For an impartial discussion of the issues see The Langer Case in Contemporary Halachic Problems vol. 1 (available on-line).

    #1299597

    mw13
    Participant

    This whole thread is titled “Rumor about Ivanka Trump Spurs conversation about Geirus”. I persobnally do not understand how the mods allowed it.

    The thread was actually originally titled just “Rumor about Ivanka Trump”. The second half was added by the mods when the said rumor… spurred a conversation/debate about geirus (and now, Goren).

    #1299628

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    Sarah Levine:

    I truly hope you’re a troll account created by someone trying to make the modern orthodoxy look bad.

    I don’t think I’ve ever found myself defending the MO in the CR, but MO Rabbis don’t actually say that hair covering isn’t the halachah. They may turn the blind eye while 90% of their congregants act that way, but please don’t say hair covering is the same thing as keeping Cholov Yisroel. I want to win in an argument with the MO, but not like this. There’s no honor in this.

    On a side note, what she said about cold dishes is correct. I think there’s a tendency of some MO people to eat even hot food off of treif utensils if the food itself is kosher (not saying this is mainstream). I don’t want to derail this thread too much though.

    #1299630

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    Oh and, Avi, sorry about my response on your 3rd point. It was disingenuous. I think you and I are mostly in agreement; I was mistaken in thinking you were actually going to try and defend the Kushners’ behavior, but I can understand being sick of hearing about Ivanka’s conversion in general.

    To me, the whole Ivanka subject has irked me personally for a long time in a way that I can’t convey in an online forum (nor should I try). Suffice it to say, I was complaining about her gerus “before it was cool,” so to see other people doing the same has been kind of exciting, but nonetheless probably won’t accomplish anything.

    #1299642

    lesschumras
    Participant

    Joseph, I get it, you disagree with Rav Goren. But it’s also disrespectful to repeatedly omit his title. I disagree with most if not all Satmar positions but that doesn’t entitle me to call either brother mister.

    #1299668

    lightbrite
    Participant

    Is there a statue of limitations on how long Jews can reasonably speculate about the halachic basis of a ger’s conversion?

    At what point does it become a “case closed and let’s move on”?

    #1299675

    lesschumras
    Participant

    Nothing to do with Ivanka,but a true convert Sion story. Many years ago the brother of an old friend of my wife married a Japanese woman and his mother was upset. The women underwent a real conversion with an Orthodox Rav and took her studies seriously but his mother was still upset. Why? Because her Japanese daughter in law continued to grow and eventually didn’t trust her mother in law’s kashrus

    #1299749

    Avi K
    Participant

    Neville,
    1. I do not know all of the details nor am I a rav so I cannot condemn or condone their alleged actions.
    2. Why were were you complaining about her giur before it was”cool”? Are you against accepting gerim? Are you a dayan?

    Lesschumras, I heard about a case where the ger (a man) said that he would not marry a woman who would marry a goy. There is also a story about a goy who decided to keep Shabbat but carry his siddur to shul so as not to be chayav mitta. When his Jewish neighbor pointed out that there was an eruv he said “You rely on that eruv?”

    #1300077

    cherrybim
    Participant

    It is known that Joseph is a student of Rabbi Shmuel Brog. Rabbi Brog was a Tzadik and would never refer to Rav Goren as Goren or to Rav Soloveitchik as J.B.
    Unfortunately, this is not so with at least one of his wayward students.

    #1300123

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    “Suffice it to say, I was complaining about her gerus “before it was cool,””

    Im not sure it is or was ever “cool”

    I’m also not sure how anyone can know what she kept and more importantly what she intended to keep. While obviously today she does not adhere to the tenets of Orthodox Judaism (by any standard MO UO or even OO), she converted almost a decade ago and was not in the limelight as much so here non-halachic practice wasnt as well documented as it is today (to my knowledge) Thus I am not sure how people can be so usre to write her out so forcefully unless they have some inside information.

    that said, I wonder if perhaps thsoe arguing she was never megayer properly are actually creating a limud zechus for her…

    #1300169

    DaMoshe
    Participant

    Neville,
    Please don’t slander MO by saying “I think there’s a tendency…” If you don’t know, don’t even speculate. It’s pure lashon harah.
    I can tell you that recently, I asked my Rav about this issue, because I had to attend a business dinner at a non-kosher restaurant. I was told I could bring my own food, but they didn’t want me to eat it out of a pan, as they are a high-class restaurant, and they wanted to serve it on their own plates.
    My Rav told me that if I get cold food, I could ask them to cover the bottom of the plate with some Romaine lettuce leaves (big ones, not chopped) that were rinsed, and I could put the food on top of it. If I had hot food, it was not an option. Thankfully, after speaking further with the restaurant, they allowed me to use some nice plastic plates which I purchased.
    You also said 90% of MO women don’t cover their hair. Again, a total falsehood. Where do you get your information from? I’d say that 90% of married women in my shul DO cover their hair.

    #1300387

    DaasYochid
    Participant

    I’d say that 90% of married women in my shul DO cover their hair.

    Is your shul representative of all of Modern Orthodoxy?

    #1300727

    SarahLevine613
    Participant

    I truly hope you’re a troll account created by someone trying to make the modern orthodoxy look bad.

    I don’t think I’ve ever found myself defending the MO in the CR, but MO Rabbis don’t actually say that hair covering isn’t the halachah. They may turn the blind eye while 90% of their congregants act that way, but please don’t say hair covering is the same thing as keeping Cholov Yisroel. I want to win in an argument with the MO, but not like this. There’s no honor in this.

    On a side note, what she said about cold dishes is correct. I think there’s a tendency of some MO people to eat even hot food off of treif utensils if the food itself is kosher (not saying this is mainstream). I don’t want to derail this thread too much though.

    1. Not a troll. Not Sarah Levine either…but not a troll.
    2. Modern Orthodox.
    3. If i am guilty of anything — its poor writing.
    4. Most modern orthodox rabbis require married women to cover their hair — but certainly not all. And, as you observed, many modern orthodox women do not cover their hair (for whatever reason). My point was that if a convert joins the MO — and follows what many women do — she shouldnt be disqualified as a convert.
    5. Now — quoting only myself — heating hot kosher food off trief dishes (assuming as we do that the dishes have not been used for 24 hours — mei-ikar ha din — doesnt make the food treif). I dont know anyone in my community who does that — and I dont.
    6. The point of my post was (I hoped) that generally we assume acceptance of Torah as the standard for conversion — as exhibited (or proven by) observance of Shabbat, kashrut and taharat hamishpacha. If we are going to look into EXACTLY how someone keeps those — which was the point of my examples — then accepting any converts becomes very difficult.

    #1300780

    SarahLevine613
    Participant

    I’d say that 90% of married women in my shul DO cover their hair.

    Is your shul representative of all of Modern Orthodoxy.

    I dont think 90% is representative of Modern Orthodox as a whole in the US. (Obviously, its ascertainable — and I am just guessing). There are definitely shuls in Bergenfield/Teaneck/Edison where it is 90% (if not slightly higher).

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