NYC Local News

Monsey Local News

Photos

Photos



YWN Coffee Room » Inspiration / Mussar

Should Boy & Girl Cousins Talk To Each Other?

(24 posts)

Tags:

No tags yet.

  1. WAHOO
    Member

    what do people feel regarding marriageable age boys and girl cousins talking to each other? is it appropriate for a boy and girl to talk to each other when they are of marriageable age- even if they are first cousins, what about distant cousins? Im just curious how people feel bout this...

    Posted 4 years ago #
  2. WolfishMusings
    The Wolf

    what about distant cousins?

    Well, we're all distant cousins with one another....

    Seriously, you'll get some replies that say yes and some that say no.

    The Wolf

    Posted 4 years ago #
  3. Joseph
    the first

    When a guy and girl are talking, just observe how often they smile at each other, (with or without intent), how often she flicks back her hair, how often they make eye contact – come on! – it's so, so obvious that even though they don’t have any intention of ever “doing anything”, Hashem’s mechanism for guaranteeing the reproduction of the species is triggered here. Even in so-called “platonic” relationships.

    And how many “platonic” relationships developed into something more? Do you think that happened overnight? Suddenly? Or did it develop slowly, starting before either party even realized it?

    When advertisers want to sell cars, they put a girl next to the car in the picture. Now what does a girl have to do with a car? Guys can’t stand it, even, when girls drive! But it’s the reproductive mechanism playing around again – the guy’s brain thinks “Car. Girl. I like girl. So I want car.” Even an automobile ad isn’t platonic!

    Store owners – especially fast food places – prefer that their cashiers be attractive, and that they wear makeup, because they know that guys say “keep the change” rather than wait for their 5 or 10 cents, much more when the cashier is attractive. The guy has no clue what’s happening to him. That’s the way guys are. That’s how Hashem made them. And so are girls, but in a different way, but that’s another story.

    So the idea of a guy/girl friendship being completely free of hormonal input is bogus.

    And I must reiterate that the prohibition here is NOT the words that are spoken. It is 100% permitted to speak to a women for a purpose such as business, asking directions, or having any essential discussion. It is the unessential, unnecessary, and especially friendship-oriented interaction that is prohibited.

    This Halachic distinction is really obvious, but if you want to see it “inside”, it is explained by the Maharal in Vayera, 18:9. Where he explains what type of “talking” is prohibited with women and what is permitted. And he is clearly talking about totally “platonic” conversation, even between strangers. Rav Moshe is addressing a different issue, namely friendships between guys and girls, which he proves is Assur M’Doraisa. And that includes cousins.

    Rav Moshe's famous Teshuva prohibiting m'doraisa girls and boys being friends is based on a statement of Chazal in Avos D'Reb Nosson, and a ruling of the Ran. Basically, it says that any friendly interaction between boys and girls is prohibited. Rav Moshe ZTL continues by saying that there is no such thing as a platonic friendship between boys and girls. He points out that objectively boys should logically choose other boys as friends, - they have more in common, they are more alike etc., and not girls - and the only reason someone would prefer a female friend is because she is a female. And that is Asur.

    Now Rav Moshe ZT'L does NOT mean that every boy/girl friendship is for the purpose of lust. The dynamics of mixed gender friendships are so different than same gender friendships, and the reason is because of the subtle but oh-so-obvious sexual dynamic taking place between the parties.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  4. Be Happy
    Member

    This is a very loaded question. A boy and girl cousins or not, will get too friendly if allowed to have long conversations together. They can talk but in a family setup with others around otherwise becareful!

    Posted 4 years ago #
  5. Just-a-guy
    Member

    Joseph- while some of that post was very informative it didn't address the question, which specifically discusses cousins.

    You say or quote things like "even between strangers."

    The question was not about strangers, or whether men and women should have platonic friendships. I don't think anyone would disagree with what's been said about that. The question was specifically about cousins, i.e., family, and that is not addressed in anything you've posted.

    Anyway, my two cents is that it depends on the specific closeness of the families in general. If the cousins grew up spending lots of time together, and their relationship is similar to that of brother and sister, than for the same reasons that brothers and sisters can talk, I'd say its permissible. If their relationship is more distant, i.e., they didn't see each other growing up very often, didn't see each other except for the occasional and infrequent simcha, then no, they are more akin to strangers who should not develop a platonic relationship. But I am Just-a-guy, not a Rav, and not even Joseph.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  6. Poster
    Member

    According to Halacha, a boy cousin and a girl cousin have the same status as a boy and girl that are not related at all.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  7. Just-a-guy
    Member

    If Poster is correct, then that answers that.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  8. Joseph
    the first

    Just-a-guy:

    There is no halachic distinction on these issues I've mentioned between first cousins, distant cousins, next door neighbors, and strangers. You can check the Maharal I cited or the Igros Moshe if you'd like.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  9. Just-a-guy
    Member

    Then the relevant answer Joseph is that there is no halachic distinction between cousins and strangers.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  10. smartcookie
    Member

    Just a guy:

    Cousins that are as close as bros and sis are not at all allowed to talk extra.

    It really doesn't matter how close they are. Siblings are allowed and cousins not. That's the halacha.

    And btw, if I'm not mistaken, if 2 people of the opposite gender are especially close then the halacha becomes even more strict. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  11. bombmaniac
    teh=the

    quick question here...just to get a perspective...if any of you saw your female cousin in the street would you say hello?

    Posted 4 years ago #
  12. Just-a-guy
    Member

    Everyone says that's the halacha, but nobody gives the source. Even Joseph's post, which does have sources (I haven't had the opportunity to review them yet) doesn't contain sources for his later assertion that "there is no halachic distinction between cousins and strangers."

    Posted 4 years ago #
  13. Ben Levi
    Member

    Just-a-Guy, halachically two first cousins are permitted to marry each other, hence they have all the regular Dinei Rrvah and then some. Even HaEzer Siman chuf-beis states that relatives have the din of "Libo Gas Bo", meaning there are some hateiri of Yichud that while applicable in most cases are not applicable in theirs.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  14. Just-a-guy
    Member

    Thank you Ben Levi.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  15. smartcookie
    Member

    Ben levi-
    As far as I always knew, the category of lebo gas bo is much stricter and this category has many more restrictions in hilchos yichud.
    Anyway have time to look into a shulchan aruch now and clarify?

    Posted 4 years ago #
  16. musictomyears
    Member

    what about girl and boy first cousins talking in a group just having a normal discussion?
    not a one on one.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  17. Joseph
    the first

    As far as I always knew, the category of lebo gas bo is much stricter and this category has many more restrictions in hilchos yichud.

    Indeed by Libo Gas Bo the restrictions in hilchos yichud are stricter.

    And the Shulchan Aruch (E.H. 22:8) and the Aruch Hashulchan (E.H. 22:6) present examples of a man and a woman who grew up together or are related - such as cousins. Libo Gas Bo also applies to a man and a woman who are very friendly with each other, such as those who work together in an office or if the man and woman dated. Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach (cited in Nishmas Avraham 3:94-95) and Dvar Halacha (7:17), state that Libo Gas Bo applies even if the man and woman have only had minimal interaction such as a woman who has visited a doctor a number of times or a man and woman who had some business dealings together.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  18. goody613
    last remaining Member

    halachically they can marry each other so whats the difference?

    Posted 4 years ago #
  19. goody613
    last remaining Member

    joseph: where is this tshuvah from rav moshe

    Posted 4 years ago #
  20. Ben Levi
    Member

    The main difference in Halacha between Libo gas Bo and no loibo Gas Bo is the Heter of Baloh Bir.
    Normally if a womans husband is in the same city as her and can arrive home at any time there is no issur yichud with her, however if a man is "libo Gas Bo" with her then the issur Yichud would apply.
    In addition according to many Poskin including the Beis Shmuel and Chelkas Mechokek if in a case of Libo Gas Bo there is no heter of "pesah Pasuach L'reshus Harabim" a door open towards a public area.
    Please be aware that what I have written above is only a very brief synopsis of some very pertinent halachos for any women working in an office or any one with a cleaning lady and other common cases. In any particular situation one must consult a Rav who is versed in Hilchos Yichud.
    As for group setting that is a very complex topic and the halachos for ashkenazim and sephardim would differ somewhat and is truly beyond the scope of this forum.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  21. Joseph
    the first

    Igros Moshe EH 4:60.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  22. pookie
    Member

    wow i didn't know this stuff

    Posted 4 years ago #
  23. shimen
    Member

    what about 'al tarbeh sicho im isha'?

    Posted 4 years ago #
  24. bombmaniac
    teh=the

    so why are we on here so often...?

    Posted 4 years ago #

RSS feed for this topic

Reply

You must log in to post.