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Taking vacation holidays between Dec 25 and Jan 1

(34 posts)
  • Started 1 year ago by shmendrick
  • Latest reply from shmendrick

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  1. shmendrick
    Blocked

    Is there an inyan to davka refrain from taking vacation or going on holidays between December 25th and January 1st?

    I know some yidden are machmir davka not to take off work on Sunday because it is the goyim's "sabbath", therefore these yidden treat Sunday like any other weekday.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  2. Syag Lchochma
    Talmidah of Rebbe Akiva

    The public school I work in is closed on those days but I go to work anyway and sit on the steps of the building all day just to make sure people don't think I was taking off for the goyish holidays. I don't want it to ruin shidduchim for my kids.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  3. Loyal Jew
    Blocked

    Since when is it OK to work for a public school?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  4. Syag Lchochma
    Talmidah of Rebbe Akiva

    when wasn't it?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  5. OneOfMany
    Today, the Impressively Arbitrary Nymphadora the Purple is sporting One Of her Many eyebrow colors, as well as her Morgul-blade ^_^

    Since you entered into a conversation with Joseph...

    Posted 1 year ago #
  6. Honestly people, have we all lost sight of the imortant things in life? It seems to me that people seek out the most absurd of possible chumras in an attempt to twist and corrupt Judaism. Now, I pray fervently that the original post was in jest? Perhaps in an attempt to draw a reaction. I really dont know but does anyone actually think that there is any value in such drastic measures. I could be wrong and id honestly love to be corrected but i honestly cannot fathom the possible value in abstinence from vacationing between those dates. Leaving aside the fact that xmas has extremely tenuous ties with xstianity, leaving aside that theres even a chance that its origins are from Adam Harishon, (ask for more if there is any interest and i will elaborate.) leaving aside the fact that many who observe do so for reasons of 'fun' rather than spirituality, leaving all of that aside, what is the point. There is a convenient time of year when schools are out and a rare opportunity for family bonding presents itself, what possible benefit can there be in abstaining. The coincidental correlation between the misdated birthday celebrations of a delusional false prophet and your vacation should not be a reason to nobble yourself. The words chassid shoteh spring to mind.....

    Posted 1 year ago #
  7. popa_bar_abba
    Incorrigible; eccentric; somewhere between mean and average; sometimes only a bit over the top; arbitrarily engaged in cynicism.

    I take my kids out of school during that time. That is when we have time with our family, and it is more important than them being in school and making a couple more menorahs that will probably catch fire.

    The school is probably mad, but I give them enough money that they are wise enough to shut up about it.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  8. zahavasdad
    Member

    Will you be fasting on Dec 25 and Jan 1st?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  9. As a kid, I was always off school then, and so were my parents (teachers in said school). We didn't usually do anything during this time (although one year we went to Israel for a bris). I have a family member going to Israel during that time because that's when they're off work.

    If the fact of the matter is that the parents are on vacation, and the kids are too (sometimes the school gives off then because there is a fair number of non-Jewish teachers) and it just works to do something then. I don't think people are davka thinking in their heads that they're doing something BECAUSE of those specific dates-that's what works for them to spend time with their families, so they take advantage.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  10. shmendrick
    Blocked

    Yeshivishsocrates1 - "It seems to me that people seek out the most absurd of possible chumras in an attempt to twist and corrupt Judaism. Now, I pray fervently that the original post was in jest? Perhaps in an attempt to draw a reaction. I really dont know but does anyone actually think that there is any value in such drastic measures. I could be wrong and id honestly love to be corrected but i honestly cannot fathom the possible value in abstinence from vacationing between those dates."

    This illustrates how our mortal "logic" is diametrically opposed to Torah.

    I use the term "our" because we all become guilty of deciding issues on the basis of "li nireh" (as it appears to me) based on "my" rotzon rather than the decisions of halacha which are rotzon Hashem.

    On this issue, see Igros Moshe Y.D. vol 3, simon 85 that one should not vacation during this time EVEN if he has no intention to celebrate in their holidays, but vacations merely because the parents are off work and want to take a family trip, since the innocent intentions do not vitiate the issur.

    Does everyone adopt this psak of Reb Moshe? From the comments, apparently not.

    However, I do object and make a machoah to the comment by Yeshivishsocrates1 - "The words chassid shoteh spring to mind..."

    As far as I know, Reb Moshe was not a chosid...of any kind.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  11. akuperma
    Member

    1. Frum schools usually hold classes in this period.

    2. In the USA, Jan. 1 is not a problem since its closing is purely secular (in some countries, it was a religious holiday, being the anniversary of the alleged "you know who" have a bris on that day - but not in the USA.

    3. I try to never wear a suit and tie on Sunday or Dec. 25, so people will realize I'm not honoring their yuntuf.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  12. shmendrick
    Blocked

    Funny how we pick an choose which posek and psak we follow. Reb Moshe is accepted for shaving and cholov stam but not for his psak on taking holiday vacations between Dec 25 and Jan 1. We are "collectors" of kulahs and therefore are intolerant of those who seek chumros and don't rely on kulos. It makes us feel and look bad.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  13. apushatayid
    Member

    Funny how some people like nothing more than to stir up the pot. I'm not a moderator, but if I was, I would give shmendrick the subtitle, The Ladle.

    As for his synopsis of the igros moshe as follows:

    "On this issue, see Igros Moshe Y.D. vol 3, simon 85 that one should not vacation during this time EVEN if he has no intention to celebrate in their holidays, but vacations merely because the parents are off work and want to take a family trip, since the innocent intentions do not vitiate the issur."

    It should be pointed out that this teshuva addresses giving off children from school during this time of the year not taking vacations. Shemendrick, if you want to make a point make up a sefer, dont reference a sefer anyone can access and see for themselves how you misquote it.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  14. DaasYochid
    a singular mind

    I do object and make a machoah to the comment by shmendrick that "Reb Moshe was not a chosid...of any kind". He certainly was a chossid in the true sense of the word.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  15. shmendrick
    Blocked

    My understanding of Reb Moshe's psak is EXACTLY word-by-word how Rav Zinner interperets it in Netei Gavriel, addition to Hilchos Chanuka, Minhagei Nitel, ch. 4, halacha 14 and footnote 16 and 17.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  16. DaasYochid
    a singular mind

    APY,

    "ורוצים ליסע לאיזה מקומות יחד עם בניהם"

    Posted 1 year ago #
  17. takahmamash
    Member

    Many people, especially those working for the U.S. government, have a limit on how much leave time they can carry over to the next year. Many of these people take off significant time during December because they will lose the leave. (It's called use or lose.) That's why so many government agencies are dead much of December, especially at the end of the month. My father, before he retired, used to do this as well.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  18. musser zoger
    Member

    "Is there an inyan to davka refrain from taking vacation or going on holidays between December 25th and January 1st?

    On this issue, see Igros Moshe Y.D. vol 3, simon 85 that one should not vacation during this time EVEN if he has no intention to celebrate in their holidays, but vacations merely because the parents are off work and want to take a family trip, since the innocent intentions do not vitiate the issur"

    So you admit you are a troll. Thanks

    Posted 1 year ago #
  19. apushatayid
    Member

    DY: That is the rationale for possibly closing school. Not the question presented.

    To shmendrick, the vacation that the I'M and the N'G are discussing is not taking a day (week) off from work, which you imply with your comment about taking off on sundays.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  20. zahavasdad
    Member

    In Israel the Charedi parties want to make Sunday a day off for everyone

    Posted 1 year ago #
  21. MorahRach
    Member

    As a teacher in a school, we were off for the week of Dec 25th and then again for Pesach. The only time we could really go on vacation was that week, because we only received 5 sick/vacation days and most people need to save those for when their kids are sick.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  22. shmendrick
    Blocked

    DaasYochid - "I do object and make a machoah to the comment by shmendrick that "Reb Moshe was not a chosid...of any kind". He certainly was a chossid in the true sense of the word."

    Reb Moshe was not a "chosid" but the Rebbe of our dor. Each dor has a Moshe Rabbenu and Reb Moshe was and still is ours.

    musser zoger - "So you admit you are a troll." I do not live under a bridge. I think you comment comes from the fact that you find halachic discussion and yeshiva minhagim unsettling and disruptive to your complacent life.

    You are disturbed when discovering that your kiyum hamitzvos is less than stellar; that there are halochas that you never heard of; that others have a frummer lifestyle...that bothers you, you become disturbed, and that is a good thing.

    No need to start howling with name calling simply because you have became a disturbed individual. Use the opportunity for growth and simchas hachayim!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  23. 147
    -105

    zahavasdad

    Will you be fasting on Dec 25 and Jan 1st?

    Sure! Absolutely! I am planning on fasting on Dec 25, 2020, and on Jan 1, 2015

    Posted 1 year ago #
  24. N.G
    Member

    Why not????

    Posted 1 year ago #
  25. DaasYochid
    a singular mind

    APY, what type of vacation are they talking about?

    Shmendrick, do you know what the word "chossid" really means?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  26. I'm going to visit my family abroad from 24-30 Dec. Why? Because on 25-26 Dec, the company lets everyone work remotely since there is no public transportation in the UK. Then I take the 27th (Thursday) and 30th (Sunday) off, and am back at work on 31 Dec.

    (I work Sunday-Thursday since I work for Israel.)

    Posted 1 year ago #
  27. apushatayid
    Member

    @DY. I will assume the "they" in your question refers to those who asked the question of R' Moshe. "They" wanted to give vacation from yeshiva during this week (I dont remember if it was instead of some other week, or not) because the parents were already off from work. In his answer he replies they should not, and as an aside, he says taking vacations during this time (which I understand to mean, a trip to disney or wherever is not appropriate either) even though the parents are off from work is "mechuar" (which I will translate as not appropriate).

    The OP seems to be using the word vacation as in taking a vacation day from work, by the juxtaposition to his Sunday comment. then again, trying to make sense of a trollish comment is useless.

    Both the I'M and the N'G are not discussing taking off from work as is implied by the OP.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  28. shmendrick
    Blocked

    apushatayid, like someone who can't dance complaining that the floor is crooked, your misunderstanding and ignorance of the I"M and N"G should not be blamed on the OP.

    My question is if the olem accept this halacha or reject it. It seems most commentators (if not all) ignore this halacha. That is sad commentary on a frum olem.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  29. Josh31
    Member

    The OP of this thread wants a certain degree of separateness from the non Jewish American culture.
    This is a valid desire.
    Most effective way to achieve this is to move to Israel.
    "That is sad commentary on a frum olem."
    If his desire is put down the majority of the Torah community for not being "holy" enough, that is another story.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  30. shmendrick
    Blocked

    Josh31 - is "the majority of the Torah community", your words = "most commentators (if not all)", my words?

    Maybe most commentators here (on this thread) do not reflect the majority of the Torah community?!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  31. DaasYochid
    a singular mind

    APY,

    I meant the IG'M and N'G when I wrote "they".

    Shmendrick's comment was most definitely trollish, but the way to respond is not to misread the IG'M. "La'asos y'mei chofesh" hardly means going to Disneyland.

    I don't know if situations such as described by TCG, takahmamash and MorahRach are included in the inyan of "m'chuar" (which I would translate as "vile"), or if other poskim disagree, but let's not distort the IG'M.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  32. DaasYochid
    a singular mind

    There is another way of reading the IG'M. "M'chuar" is going back on the schools closing. According to this reading, R' Moshe is not referring to individuals using their vacation days.

    The N'G did not learn this way in the IG'M - he learned that "m'chuar" is going on the worker taking days off.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  33. musser zoger
    Member

    Shmendrick "You are disturbed when discovering that your kiyum hamitzvos is less than stellar; that there are halochas that you never heard of; that others have a frummer lifestyle...that bothers you, you become disturbed, and that is a good thing.

    No need to start howling with name calling simply because you have became a disturbed individual. Use the opportunity for growth and simchas hachayim!"

    Wow! How do you know me so well? You must be one of my neighbors.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  34. shmendrick
    Blocked

    DaasYochid - "There is another way of reading the IG'M. "M'chuar" is going back on the schools closing. According to this reading, R' Moshe is not referring to individuals using their vacation days. The N'G did not learn this way in the IG'M - he learned that "m'chuar" is going on the worker taking days off."

    There is also another way of reading "Lo Signov" in the aseres hadibros: Lo, Signov! (No, you should steal).

    We naturally resist being mekabel halachos that we never knew and never kept. It is unsettling for us to realize that we are not as frum as we believe we are.

    If you have the week off - come join me in the kollel at BMG!

    Posted 1 year ago #

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